How to change turbo mode to be as smooth as ECO

[stompandgo]

Sort of. It means that assist doesn't get significant until the rider reaches a certain cadence. 40rpm is too low for high assist on these motors. That's why you're in Turbo all the time. You can compensate for this somewhat by increasing the dynamics, but that can cause the lurching that you've experienced. If you can work on getting your cadence up to 60rpm, your bike will feel completely different.

 

[jsp45]

Thanks for explaining. I can't pedal any faster, but it's helpful to understand how it works.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Does that just mean that the faster you pedal, the faster the motor pushes?

It means that at higher cadence, the motor becomes more efficient at converting a given electrical power input into mechanical power at the crank. This effiency is low at 40 rpm and much higher at 80-100 rpm.

From the rider's perspective, at higher cadence, the motor delivers more mechanical power to the rear wheel for a given assist level and pedal force. And all other things being equal, more rear wheel power means faster ground speed for a given input of leg power on your part.

This would explain at least in part why you would find yourself needing TURBO assist on false flats. The motor is significantly crippled at 40 rpm cadence.

This would probably be true of most if not all mid-drive motors. Hub motors, on the other hand, are crippled not by low cadence, but by low ground speed instead — say, under 6-8 mph for a bike with 27.5 inch wheels.

If you're stuck at 40 rpm cadence for whatever reason, you might be better off with a torque-sensing hub-drive. In your flattish terrain, the motor efficiency drop-off at low ground speeds in the congested areas might be less of an issue for you. But only testing in your terrain and traffic conditions would tell.

 

[jsp45]

Thanks, yes I see what you mean.

I'm stuck with this one bike, but I have a pretty good idea that it will work at low speed / low cadence if I just use it as a manual bike with the motor turned off entirely, which I should be able to do if I get the lighter battery.

That way I can keep the motor for when I am on the longer roads that aren't all stop-start.

I'm hoping to get to the bike shop later in the week and I think they will let me test the smaller battery there. I think that should help a lot.

I will report back when I have tried that. Thank you for your help and for listening to me thinking out loud about all this. It is really helping.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Thanks, yes I see what you mean.

I'm stuck with this one bike, but I have a pretty good idea that it will work at low speed / low cadence if I just use it as a manual bike with the motor turned off entirely, which I should be able to do if I get the lighter battery.

That way I can keep the motor for when I am on the longer roads that aren't all stop-start.

I'm hoping to get to the bike shop later in the week and I think they will let me test the smaller battery there. I think that should help a lot.

I will report back when I have tried that. Thank you for your help and for listening to me thinking out loud about all this. It is really helping.

Just one last thing: Since you're stuck with this bike now, I strongly recommend working on that cadence — preferably with the feedback of a cadence meter. Even 60 rpm would be much better than 40 rpm, and in the long run, you might find it better for your legs as well — especially your knees.

If your Gazelle's display can't be set up to show cadence, maybe the Flow app can. There are also plenty of inexpensive alternatives. The bike shop can help. On my hub-drive, I use a $20 IGSport Bluetooth cadence sensor from Amazon. It straps to one crank. Readout is via the RideWithGPS app runing on my handlebar-mounted phone.

You might find RideWithGPS useful for many other things, including ride recording and navigation. It'll even record your cadence to help you track your progress. The free version will probably suffice for your cadence training, but I find the premium version worth every penny.

Just take your time and push your cadence by a few rpm at a time, briefly every day. Try pedaling as smoothly as you can with each attempt to improve the muscle coordination. As you practice, visualize the success — you cruising around Cambridge on your beautiful Gazelle with a big smile on your face and none of the fuss you've experienced so far.

You might be surprised at your progress.

 

[jsp45]

Is this the sort of thing that I should have bought, do you think?

Trek Verve+ 1 - 300WH

Trek Verve+ 1 - 300WH SOLID CHARCOAL £2000.00

www.primocycles.co.uk

My manual bike is this without the battery.

 

[jsp45]

Oddly, the ladies one is much heaver at 26kg.

Trek 2026 District+ 2 Lowstep - 400Wh

Trek 2026 District+ 2 Lowstep - 400Wh TREK BLACK £2550.00

www.primocycles.co.uk

The gents one above is 22kg.

 

[stompandgo]

The ultimate low cadence e-bike is a Class 1 throttle bike. They work well at zero cadence.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Is this the sort of thing that I should have bought, do you think?

Trek Verve+ 1 - 300WH

Trek Verve+ 1 - 300WH SOLID CHARCOAL £2000.00

www.primocycles.co.uk

No, because it's another mid-drive. If you do nothing to bring up your cadence, you'll end up with another hobbled motor.

Even if the Trek weighed 5 kg less than your Gazelle, I'm skeptical that it would be a substantially better bike for you.

 

[jsp45]

Oh okay. I can't ride a class 1 throttle bike. That is a motor cycle here and I don't want to get a licence

 

[jsp45]

I've come down with some kind of lurgy now which is going to delay thing for a bit. I'll disappear for a little while and report back when I have had a chance to go and test the battery. Thank you very much for your help.

 

[jsp45]

Thanks, I'll have a look at that I definitely think that reducing the power has helped. The suspension is bonkers on my bike. It's like riding on concrete wheels. Maybe I should let the tyres down a bit.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@jsp45:
There are some true facts about how the Gazelle (or any other good mid-drive motor) works and should be ridden:

• Gazelle is a classic good e-bike that most riders are happy with at the default ECO or SPORT mode
• Removing the main battery and replacing it with an extender is counter-productive. It reduces the mass of the e-bike + rider by just 2% while it reduces the battery range by a big amount
• A mid-drive motor requires pedalling at the cadence of at least 70. You achieve it by a dramatic downshifting and learning to rotate the cranks a way faster than you currently do
• The true nature of a good e-bike such as yours can be only determined on real rides, 5 miles minimum.
• TURBO mode is only for very steep climbs
• A speed at which an e-bike (at low assistance modes) behaves correctly is from 11 or even 13 mph. The e-bike is not designed to be ridden at the pedestrian speed.

I don't want to sound rude but must be direct in your case: You need to learn riding your e-bike like anyone else. Fiddling with the assistance at a ridiculously low cadence is the way to nowhere.

Hope it helps.

Additional information: I'm 64 and suffer from atherosclerosis (making my legs ridiculously weak). Still, I can ride my mid-drive e-bikes like anyone else. Your legs are not too weak; you have just not learnt riding your e-bike like anyone else does

 

[LeonD]

While I'm still new to e-bikes and learning the Bosch system, it feels to me that the Tour+ (Dynamic mode) is less dependent on cadence than the standard modes. I notice this mostly in the woods riding on single track. Often in technical section with the standard modes, I couldn't get enough cadence to make the motor really pull. While in Tour+, it felt like the power was coming on as soon as I started pedaling.


That said, a higher cadence is a good thing in general. Now if there's a physical reason why one can't pedal above say 60 or 70 rpm, then there's no arguing with that and ignore the rest.

When trying a higher cadence, I will admit it feels very awkward at first. Almost unnatural. But one gets use to it. While a higher cadence is less stress on the legs, it is more taxing on one's aerobics. Finally, you'll need to use lower gears to be able to spin. So unless somebody has a physical reason why they can't pedal fast, they should give it a try.

 

[stompandgo]

The Bosch dynamic modes don't really change the response of the drive unit, although it may feel like it. With Tour+, for example, assist starts in Tour , and as the rider pedals harder, the drive unit automatically increases the assist to Sport, and eventually Turbo.

 

[LeonD]

I'll need to check if I modified the riding mode but if I increased the Dynamics of the Tour+, would it feel like the power was coming on sooner?

 

[stompandgo]

It should.