Bikes with Gen 4 Bosch Performance Line Speed

[Comfortably Numb]

There is a 45 km/h e-bike I found in the Canadian website of Cube:

If you see the 45 on the Canadian Cube website, you are not on the correct site.
I have spent hours on Canadian e-bike websites and have never seen a Class 3 bike on any of them including Cube. I have not tried setting my VPN to a different country to see what happens, however.
I was real interested in a Trek 9.9 only to find it is not available in Canada.
I'll go as far to say that if one tried to import one from the US the CBP will catch it.


CN

 

[Deacon Blues]

If you see the 45 on the Canadian Cube website, you are not on the correct site.
I have spent hours on Canadian e-bike websites and have never seen a Class 3 bike on any of them including Cube. I have not tried setting my VPN to a different country to see what happens, however.
I was real interested in a Trek 9.9 only to find it is not available in Canada.
I'll go as far to say that if one tried to import one from the US the CBP will catch it.


CN

There seems to be at least one way to get an ebike with a 28mph motor limiter into Canada. There's a company that sets up a plan where you ship the item you've purchased in the US to them (they're also located in the US). The company then ships the item directly to you.

MyUS.com - the #1 largest and most trusted package consolidation company

The one major downside is you will not get any warranty work done on the bike in Canada.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I don't know the intricacies of rules and regulations in the EU region. Car insurance here in the US varies from company to company and I am curious to know how it varies in the E-bike market space.

 

[Johnny]

What's more? E-bikes are much heavier than traditional bicycles. Their momentum (mass * velocity) makes them more dangerous.

Mass component should be rider weight + bicycle weight and in that case the additional 30lbs really not that definitive, the difference in rider weight can make a much bigger difference.

Class 3 e-bike is also more dangerous than, say, a road bike because accelerating to high speed is so fast and easy...

Class 3 bikes do not accelerate quicker than a class 1, it is a power issue. Also road cyclist break the rules more often than a person with an ebike just to keep their momentum. I encounter many road cyclists who will cross red lights or not stop at stop signs just to keep their momentum. Down hill roadies are usually much faster than ebikers.


On the other hand even 20mph can be quite dangerous but in that case people should be limited to 12mph or less which may not please many riders.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am genuinely curious!
I don't know the intricacies of rules and regulations in the EU region. Car insurance here in the US varies from company to company and I am curious to know how it varies in the E-bike market space.

Ravi,
Marts is illegal (hence his reaction) I cannot say anything about the UK. My first year obligatory Third Party insurance for S-Vado cost around US$43. The second year one is US$32. Of course, the insurance cost depends on the insurance company and your record. I'm still curious how the first MOT (after 3 years) will look like.

Class 3 bikes do not accelerate quicker than a class 1, it is a power issue.

Johnny, the debate on Classes is endless and pointless. Dura lex sed lex. Hard law, still a law. Your point is valid for the U.S. but not necessarily for the EU. Did you know Specialized used a speed-optimised 1.2s motor for EU S-Pedelec Vado 6.0 while the Class 1 1.2 or 1.3 ones were used for U.S. Class 3 Vados (only the speed limit is different)? Bosch use the Performance Line Speed motor for High-Speed e-bikes, a very similar situation. These motors do accelerate faster because of different power curve.

 

[Johnny]

Did you know Specialized used a speed-optimised 1.2s motor for EU S-Pedelec Vado 6.0 while the Class 1 1.2 or 1.3 ones were used for U.S. Class 3 Vados (only the speed limit is different)? Bosch use the Performance Line Speed motor for High-Speed e-bikes, a very similar situation. These motors do accelerate faster because of different power curve.

Honestly for mid drives I really don't see what they mean by optimization. The only possibility is to change the curve vs cadence, because of gearing speed is actually an independent variable. And from a stop Bosch cx accelerate quicker than the speed motor for gen 2(that's why people preferred derestricted CX over speed version for gen 2).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm not the expert Johnny but I believe in engineering. There must be a reason the 45 km/h European e-bikes use either Specialized 1.2s/Brose TF or Bosch Performance Line Speed.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Marts is illegal (hence his reaction)

Jesus, yes, his reaction caught me by surprise.

My first year obligatory Third Party insurance for S-Vado cost around US$43. The second year one is US$32. Of course, the insurance cost depends on the insurance company and your record.

Thank you for sharing this information. I was unaware of the E-bike insurance costs and knowing these numbers certainly help get a better perspective.
Honestly, $32/year is very fair and quite inexpensive actually. I wonder why people take the pain of purchasing a de-tuner device for $200 when they can register an S-pedelec for less than $50.

I wonder if it has to do with where you can ride those bikes and certain other regulations.

 

[Johnny]

I wonder if it has to do with where you can ride those bikes and certain other regulations.

I think this is the reason. Still it would be good if someone can enlighten us.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for sharing this information. I was unaware of the E-bike insurance costs and knowing these numbers certainly help get a better perspective.
Honestly, $32/year is very fair and quite inexpensive actually. I wonder why people take the pain of purchasing a de-tuner device for $200 when they can register an S-pedelec for less than $50.

I wonder if it has to do with where you can ride those bikes and certain other regulations.

There are several many reasons not to buy an L1e-B in Europe:

• These are the most expensive models because of the safety equipment used and to cover the type-certification cost of manufacturer
• L1e-B palette of choice is scarce: Very few brands offer S-Pedelecs
• If the e-bike doesn't have the EU Certificate of Conformity, the owner has to get it by entering a procedure. In most of cases, such e-bike would not pass the type-certification.
• You cannot buy certain e-bike types as L1e-B: For example you can't buy a Speed e-MTB or Road e-Bike here; these cannot have the mandatory safety equipment installed. The notable exception is Bulls Bikes E-Stream EVO 45 AM.
• You can only ride an L1e-B on public roads but not on bike paths or in national parks; not everyone is so brave as I am to ride with traffic at rush hour; indeed, few are
• There is an additional cost of registration + getting the number plate, some US$25, one-time fee
• Some riders need to carry the AM (light motorcycle) driving license or car's driving license with them (I'm exempted from that due to my birth year but I carry my driving license anyway).
• Ah, would you like to have a number plate on your e-bike Ravi?
• UK requires the rider of a S-Pedelec to wear a motorcycle helmet...
• The registration and insurance procedure is just a pain in most of European countries (except of Switzerland where it is very easy) because S-Pedelecs are a brand new concept for officers, and they have hard time to understand what to do. (I was thrown out the office at my first attempt to register my S-Vado.

 

[MartsEbike]

Ravi,
Marts is illegal (hence his reaction)

No Stefan... Actually its due to people like you treating others with little more than a smarmy sanctimonious contempt.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What was the English version of the saying "Knock on the table, and the scissors will ring"? You are illegal, Marts. Be a man. Face it.

 

[webcurl]

In the UK we have heavy traffic, and in many places, narrow roads, being able to keep up with traffic is much safer than having them overtake you at 30cm distance.

I obviously don't live in the UK but i totally agree with what you said there.

 

[Law]

I don't know the intricacies of rules and regulations in the EU region. Car insurance here in the US varies from company to company and I am curious to know how it varies in the E-bike market space.

So I pay 400$ a year It includes the limits on my cars which is 2 m. I’m more worried about getting hit by a car, then somebody stealing my bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

In the UK we have heavy traffic, and in many places, narrow roads, being able to keep up with traffic is much safer than having them overtake you at 30cm distance.

I thought the UK had at least as many bike paths as Poland...

Strand, London, UK, 24th of December 2020.

 

[markybolton]

The old 'it's the owner, not the gun' argument..

If humans could be relied on to act courteously at all times we wouldn't need laws, period. We'd always be acting to minimise risk and maximise the enjoyment of other road and path users. Alas, until such time magically occurs regulations are there to give authorities the stick they occasionally need to whack the discourteous duffer puffers into line.

It's always a balance for legislators between the rights of the individual and the utility of the mass. The US has gone one extreme with it, Canada has found a middle ground, Australia (in adopting the UKs regulation wholesale) has gone the other extreme.

Further, I'd argue it's human nature to push the boundaries. I see it on a popular local shared pathway all the time. I've seen countless near misses (and the occasional hit) as the (unpowered) road warriors blast past pedestrians in their quest to earn a new button or whatever on Strava. They may well have all acted courteously at first. Bit by bit dangerous behaviour is justified and normalised. The end result for me is that pathway is no longer somewhere I'd take my young kids for a ride - it's too dangerous.

For the record I hate our AU 25km/h limits, but while ever they're the law I'll begrudgingly comply. (Contrary to popular belief we Australians love our laws - one upshot of which is our relatively Covid-free country.) I have written to MPs requesting a revision, but don't expect action on that front anytime soon. Anyway, philosophical digression, apologies.

Covid-free??? Don't think so! https://www.google.com/search?q=Aus...0i10i395l7.13199j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Spicy Legato]

Here in the United States it is estimated that half a million diesel truck owners have illegally modified their trucks to bypass the emission control. Do you see any government officials doing anything about it? I could buy a diesel truck, illegally modify it to spew black carbon, specifically with the intent to harm people I drive by, and fill it with dozens of high powered semi-automatic weapons with high capacity magazines.

 

[markybolton]

Here in the United States it is estimated that half a million diesel truck owners have illegally modified their trucks to bypass the emission control. Do you see any government officials doing anything about it? I could buy a diesel truck, illegally modify it to spew black carbon, specifically with the intent to harm people I drive by, and fill it with dozens of high powered semi-automatic weapons with high capacity magazines. Doing this might get me elected to public office in a rural area, rather than any legal repercussions.

However, I'm sure if the cops saw me riding a class 3 ebike where it is disallowed, they might simply shoot me multiple times, rather than bother to give me a warning, or civil infraction.

Rightttttttttttttttt!!!! Guess you never heard of ole emission control or diesel gate? I rather doubt most police even know the difference between class 2 and class 3 bikes so I guess you are pretty much safe!