Best "HighEnd" ebike? What determines the price..

[Gee_Whiz]

So I know of the Stromers, Riese and Mullers, Vanmoofs if they fit.. but what would be the difference between buying a Trek or Specialized with the Bosch or Brose vs one of the more expensive models of bike with the same or similar motor? Will you gain a higher performance or is it just more battery life generally? Also, is there a list of best bikes over 5k or so?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Vanmoofs

Pardon me?
Vanmoof does not belong to the world you're describing. Stromer or Riese & Muller do. Specialized do. Trek do. Cannondale do. Giant does as well.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

what would be the difference between buying a Trek or Specialized with the Bosch or Brose one of the more expensive models of bike?

Joking aside.
You get the best technology with the e-bike designed to the smallest detail. You get excellent components. You get reliable motors with a natural ride feeling. You get premium electronics.

But what you are actually getting is the warranty, and post-sales service. And safe quality batteries.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Joking aside.
You get the best technology with the e-bike designed to the smallest detail. You get excellent components. You get reliable motors with a natural ride feeling. You get premium electronics.

But what you are actually getting is the warranty, and post-sales service. And safe quality batteries.

So a Stromer vs a Trek, youre getting similar performance speed-wise but a smoother ride moreso with higher-end compnenets? Are these bikes more like to ride and feel like a regular bike as well?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Talking about Stromers is a somewhat sensitive subject, as there are so many happy Stromer users. Stromer is a powerhouse, designed to get you from point A to B fast and with a little effort. Mid-drive e-bikes from big brands are made to resemble traditional bikes. I have ridden many e-bikes but currently keep two Specialized ones:

• Full power Vado gives you an impression of a Ferrari. It is a strong, fast, sporty e-bike that I use for very long rides, often in hard conditions, and especially for mountain road trips. It is very much tuneable, so I can adjust the assistance for group rides with both weak and strong riders. If I want a natural, strong e-bike that will never disappoint me that would be the Vado.
• Vado SL is my daily ride. Small motor, small battery (with an extender), a lightweight e-bike. It behaves as naturally as if it were a traditional e-bike. For instance, meet a headwind, and Vado SL will become slow. However, switch the assistance off and you'll understand how the motor is changing the game!

I used to own a Giant full suspension e-MTB (Trance E+ Pro). There was no hill off-road it could not conquer. It was so stable on downhill rides on rocks. There was hardly any terrain it could not handle. But I am not interested in technical singletrack rides so I gave it to a family member.

And now, the funniest thing. I still own a 250 W hub-drive motor hybrid e-bike that cost, say, US$1,900. You know what? The best commuter of them all... But it gives me no workout. It feels as if it is pushing me all the time!

P.S. I have standardized on Specialized, as I am getting the best service from them. Besides, both my Specialized e-bikes do not break. Trek is said to provide even better service!

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Talking about Stromers is a somewhat sensitive subject, as there are so many happy Stromer users. Stromer is a powerhouse, designed to get you from point A to B fast and with a little effort. Mid-drive e-bikes from big brands are made to resemble traditional bikes. I have ridden many e-bikes but currently keep two Specialized ones:

• Full power Vado gives you an impression of a Ferrari. It is a strong, fast, sporty e-bike that I use for very long rides, often in hard conditions, and especially for mountain road trips. It is very much tuneable, so I can adjust the assistance for group rides with both weak and strong riders. If I want a natural, strong e-bike that will never disappoint me that would be the Vado.
• Vado SL is my daily ride. Small motor, small battery (with an extender), a lightweight e-bike. It behaves as naturally as if it were a traditional e-bike. For instance, meet a headwind, and Vado SL will become slow. However, switch the assistance off and you'll understand how the motor is changing the game!

I used to own a Giant full suspension e-MTB (Trance E+ Pro). There was no hill off-road it could not conquer. It was so stable on downhill rides on rocks. There was hardly any terrain it could not handle. But I am not interested in technical singletrack rides so I gave it to a family member.

And now, the funniest thing. I still own a 250 W hub-drive motor hybrid e-bike that cost, say, US$1,900. You know what? The best commuter of them all... But it gives me no workout. It feels as if it is pushing me all the time!

P.S. I have standardized on Specialized, as I am getting the best service from them. Besides, both my Specialized e-bikes do not break. Trek is said to provide even better service!

Thank you much for this breakdown! I was looking for essential the best E-bike amongst the Vado, Trek Allant, Giant Fast-E etc which seem to be all on the same or similar levels. I cam across the Stromer and its intriguing but I think i know what you mean by touchy subject as well lol. With your Vado are you able to go off-road a bit or is that best left to the Turbo Levos and the like?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

With your Vado are you able to go off-road a bit or is that best left to the Turbo Levos and the like?

Yes I do it. I have done two essential mods to the full power Vado:

• Changed the tires to Schwalbe Smart Sam for quiet ride on-road and a good grip off-road
• Swapped the chainring from a 48T to 38T one.

Both changes meant sacrificing some of the top speed. Yet, I successfully join gravel group rides, which mean riding mild off-road in my country:

On a frozen dirt road, together with six other strong gravel cyclists.

Funnily enough, Vado SL is even better there. As a lightweight e-bike (which I equipped with Redshift ShockStop suspension and proper tires), it is far less shaky and more supple than the big Vado. The only issue is the battery capacity: I have ordered a second Range Extender to be able to cope with gravel group rides on Vado SL:

I managed a November 40 mile gravel ride with two strong guys, me riding a Vado SL.

 

[PDoz]

So I know of the Stromers, Riese and Mullers, Vanmoofs if they fit.. but what would be the difference between buying a Trek or Specialized with the Bosch or Brose vs one of the more expensive models of bike with the same or similar motor? Will you gain a higher performance or is it just more battery life generally? Also, is there a list of best bikes over 5k or so?

There is an economy of scale with the larger manufacturers that makes them just crazy expensive rather than obscenely expensive. So consider yourself lucky if the style of bike you desire is available via Specialized or trek , and you are not concerned about exclusivity .

Having said that, there are subtle benefits at the higher end of the price range - Stefan mentions Giant , generally their bearings and bushes don't hold up as well after a few years abuse compared with Trek or Specialized - especially in their dual suspension bikes. Or a transferable warranty which might help resale value? Even the quality of warranty support - and this can vary across regions so ask at your lbs.

I'm not convinced the higher price is good value at the top of the scale - at least not unless you are a high end user who values the subtle differences. Very few people will wear out a giant, never mind a trek or specialized - but if you are one of those people a reise + muiller might make sense ? Or perhaps buying a new bike every year and accepting the financial hit makes more sense?

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Yes I do it. I have done two essential mods to the full power Vado:

• Changed the tires to Schwalbe Smart Sam for quiet ride on-road and a good grip off-road
• Swapped the chainring from a 48T to 38T one.

Both changes meant sacrificing some of the top speed. Yet, I successfully join gravel group rides, which mean riding mild off-road in my country:

View attachment 111832
On a frozen dirt road, together with six other strong gravel cyclists.

Funnily enough, Vado SL is even better there. As a lightweight e-bike (which I equipped with Redshift ShockStop suspension and proper tires), it is far less shaky and more supple than the big Vado. The only issue is the battery capacity: I have ordered a second Range Extender to be able to cope with gravel group rides on Vado SL:

View attachment 111833
I managed a November 40 mile gravel ride with two strong guys, me riding a Vado SL.

This is AWESOME! TY for sharing! Thats the one thing that seems to be lacking on the Vado.. the overall range with how torquey the motor seems to be

 

[Gee_Whiz]

There is an economy of scale with the larger manufacturers that makes them just crazy expensive rather than obscenely expensive. So consider yourself lucky if the style of bike you desire is available via Specialized or trek , and you are not concerned about exclusivity .

Having said that, there are subtle benefits at the higher end of the price range - Stefan mentions Giant , generally their bearings and bushes don't hold up as well after a few years abuse compared with Trek or Specialized - especially in their dual suspension bikes. Or a transferable warranty which might help resale value? Even the quality of warranty support - and this can vary across regions so ask at your lbs.

I'm not convinced the higher price is good value at the top of the scale - at least not unless you are a high end user who values the subtle differences. Very few people will wear out a giant, never mind a trek or specialized - but if you are one of those people a reise + muiller might make sense ? Or perhaps buying a new bike every year and accepting the financial hit makes more sense?

Thats what I'm figuring out essentially.. is the difference between a 4k Trek/Vado etc and an 8k R&M noticeable.. seems to highly circumstantial unsurprisingly

 

[PDoz]

This is an example of a giant rear suspension linkage at 3 years - the alloy mating surface has been gouged by dirt - there are no seals. It's still working, but needs more regular maintenance now ( it starts to creak and groan after a few months, fixed by a clean / grease )



I had my first bearing failure within weeks on that giant (2018 full e pro) - rear wheel bearing, most likely due to the stupid giant rear hub design. In 3.5 years ownership, I've replaced all the suspension bearings at least twice, 2 headset bearings, the dropper post was dead within months, and it seems to need regular tightening of bolts.

For comparison, I also have a specialized levo sl. It's second hand and the original owner was a much more aggressive rider than me, yet all the linkages / bushes / bearings remain in good condition, it never squeaks or creaks, even the paint looks to be holding up better.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Thank you much for this breakdown! I was looking for essential the best E-bike amongst the Vado, Trek Allant, Giant Fast-E etc which seem to be all on the same or similar levels. I cam across the Stromer and its intriguing but I think i know what you mean by touchy subject as well lol. With your Vado are you able to go off-road a bit or is that best left to the Turbo Levos and the like?

Stromer is a high end direct drive system with torque sensing. about the only one I have seen. I have people say it actually feels even more natural then a bosch powered bike. but lack of support here in the US and the cost are big downsides for me.

 

[rich c]

Thats what I'm figuring out essentially.. is the difference between a 4k Trek/Vado etc and an 8k R&M noticeable.. seems to highly circumstantial unsurprisingly

You should be asking for input from owners. Opinions of shoppers does not give an accurate assessment for the ride. There are different levels of components, including some that now have electronic shifting. For frames you have everything from alloy to carbon fiber. People that do a lot of riding will tell you a carbon fiber rides much differently, but do others really care about the subtleties? It would take days to sort out the differences of companies, models of eBikes, and what the differences are. There is no simple general answers to your question. I will tell you that there is a major difference between riding sub $2,000 and $5,000, but it makes zero difference for many. I ride Haibike and BMC. I believe they should be in your list as well.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

You should be asking for input from owners. Opinions of shoppers does not give an accurate assessment for the ride. There are different levels of components, including some that now have electronic shifting. For frames you have everything from alloy to carbon fiber. People that do a lot of riding will tell you a carbon fiber rides much differently, but do others really care about the subtleties? It would take days to sort out the differences of companies, models of eBikes, and what the differences are. There is no simple general answers to your question. I will tell you that there is a major difference between riding sub $2,000 and $5,000, but it makes zero difference for many. I ride Haibike and BMC. I believe they should be in your list as well.

BMC is my bike of choice actually! I didn't know they had electric bikes though. I had an BMC Alpenchallenge AC02 and an 01 imported to the states a while back and was by far the best hybrid id ridden. Appreciate the insights

 

[Petropoliskhan]

If you have a knowledgeable, serious stromer dealer near you, you should definitely test ride some of their models to understand what the hype is all about and feel for yourself wether the price premium is worth it.

 

[opimax]

Everybody is different. No matter what bike I ride with a Bosch motor I get tired quicker , travel slower then a my cheaper BH with geared hub or my old Stromers or my current Bafang powered WattWagon. i am not a fast peddler, not sure if my biking even qualifies me to have a cadence. Others who do have a decent cadence seem toget more out of a Bosch motor. So money doesn’t buy you motor flexibility. Also it was much easier to keep at 28 mph on both Stromer and BH although the Bosch reaches 28 harder to keep it there and always fall back at couple or more mph. There is a thread about Bosch is not much help after 26 and the speedometer is almost a couple mph optimistic on top of that.

Brakes I can tell quality, money does tend to get you better brakes , alway get the best you can is my thought, really shows on Wattwagons with mt7 and upgraded rotors.Stromers brakes on the ST2s showed them selves nicely.

money does more battery, some may or may not want this. I ride on longer trips , carry 2 spare on each bike , the bigger ones go further but weigh more , weight may or may not be an issue you care about a little or a lot about.

money can exotic material for your bike. I am happy with standard non flexible aluminum. I have not ridden carbon so wont comment on that.

I am not sure I consider Trek or Spedialized In the same category as Stromer and R&M , this is an opinion, depends how you measure. I currently have a deposit on a Specialized Vado with a belt and my current back up bike is a trek , ridden when other bikes aren’t available.

know little to nothing about Vanmoofs , probably wouldn’t touch it with out a local dealer but would be very interested to check out if there was a close dealer

i am hoping to test ride a Serial 1 soon ,waiting on weather at this point , sounds like something my wife would like with the auto shift, maybe me for a back up , I hope to chainless at some point on all my bikes, certainly any mid drive.

i look forward to Ravi’s (Zen) Shataki model. He and I rode Stromers together years ago, knows what it is like to ride one, he set worlds record on one. It may not have all the bells and whistles as a Stromer but the actual riding I would expect close. Upgrade the shifter and brake to exotic top of the line , don’t need the Omni crap and boom similar or better, I am hoping and still cheaper then my current backup bike…hopefully add reliability Which my Stromers didn’t have

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Everybody is different. No matter what bike I ride with a Bosch motor I get tired quicker , travel slower then a my cheaper BH with geared hub or my old Stromers or my current Bafang powered WattWagon. i am not a fast peddler, not sure if my biking even qualifies me to have a cadence. Others who do have a decent cadence seem toget more out of a Bosch motor. So money doesn’t buy you motor flexibility. Also it was much easier to keep at 28 mph on both Stromer and BH although the Bosch reaches 28 harder to keep it there and always fall back at couple or more mph. There is a thread about Bosch is not much help after 26 and the speedometer is almost a couple mph optimistic on top of that.

Brakes I can tell quality, money does tend to get you better brakes , alway get the best you can is my thought, really shows on Wattwagons with mt7 and upgraded rotors.Stromers brakes on the ST2s showed them selves nicely.

money does more battery, some may or may not want this. I ride on longer trips , carry 2 spare on each bike , the bigger ones go further but weigh more , weight may or may not be an issue you care about a little or a lot about.

money can exotic material for your bike. I am happy with standard non flexible aluminum. I have not ridden carbon so wont comment on that.

I am not sure I consider Trek or Spedialized In the same category as Stromer and R&M , this is an opinion, depends how you measure. I currently have a deposit on a Specialized Vado with a belt and my current back up bike is a trek , ridden when other bikes aren’t available.

know little to nothing about Vanmoofs , probably wouldn’t touch it with out a local dealer but would be very interested to check out if there was a close dealer

i am hoping to test ride a Serial 1 soon ,waiting on weather at this point , sounds like something my wife would like with the auto shift, maybe me for a back up , I hope to chainless at some point on all my bikes, certainly any mid drive.

i look forward to Ravi’s (Zen) Shataki model. He and I rode Stromers together years ago, knows what it is like to ride one, he set worlds record on one. It may not have all the bells and whistles as a Stromer but the actual riding I would expect close. Upgrade the shifter and brake to exotic top of the line , don’t need the Omni crap and boom similar or better, I am hoping and still cheaper then my current backup bike…hopefully add reliability Which my Stromers didn’t have

^ Watt Wagon would probably be my goto if Pushkar wasnt having distro issues on the Helio. I will still probably pick one up down the line. I just looked up the Vado too and didnt realize those were under 50lbs.. interesting

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just looked up the Vado too and didnt realize those were under 50lbs..

Vado or Vado SL?

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Vado or Vado SL?

Looks like the Vado 5.0 is around 47pounds?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Looks like the Vado 5.0 is around 47pounds?

I don't think so. My original 2017 Vado weighs 53 lbs. Subsequent models became heavier because of the suspension fork. The latest Vado 5.0 sports a larger battery. I would say, 57 lbs, not less. (I can be wrong).