BBS** Settings/Pedal Assist/Stop Decay *Excellent Motor Refinement *

[DavesNotHereMan]

You've proven me wrong rather swiftly hahaha .

I think I know what's going on though, your PAS screenshot puzzled me for a few moments until I remembered something obvious I've overlooked. In the throttle settings there exists the PAS setting. I can't find where I read it atm but those PAS settings from 1-9 correlate with current limits at the firmware level. So for the sake of this discussion (since I can't find any documentation) let's say PAS 9 = 100% current, PAS 8 = 90% current, and so on.

This makes perfect sense to me now. In your PAS 4 setting you'd be applying 70% of 50% maximum current (35% total current). At PAS 5 you'd be applying 70% of 60% maximum current (42% total current). So even though they have the same settings on the PAS page they have different applied currents. The speed is still a speed limit but the current is being applied logarithmically so it feels a little like the settings are correlated as the PAS level goes up.

We are also literally programming the 'curve' ourselves here I think. If you were to max out all speed and current settings to 100% you would likely experience linear increases throughout the PAS settings and it probably wouldn't feel good. My settings also make more sense to me now as I felt my upper PAS settings were giving exponentially more power than the lower ones. This is explained by the logarithmic nature of the current setting.

I'd love to get my hands on a proper service manual for one of these motors. The great thing about the BBSxx motors is the level of customization you can do but support for them isn't great when it comes to technical info. Knowing things like the base current level for each PAS would take the magic right out of all the other settings.

And lastly,

I changed a few settings today:

Current (on page 1) from 18A to 20A
Stop Decay from 150ms to 250ms
Keep Current from 70% to 80%

I'm finding the bike way zippier with these settings. I'm pedaling with far less effort once I reach max speed. I can still feel the cutout from the motor slightly but it is noticably smoother than at 150ms. I'm not sure how much higher I'd want to go though, it's actually very comfortable at 250ms. I'm still gonna try 1100 this weekend for shits and giggles and see what happens

 

[tomjasz]

no preconceived notions.

Liar liar pants on fire.
I'm sending inquiries from non customers to this thread. Good stuff thank you.
7 years of EM3ev settings and happy. 250W and 350W 36V.

I've learned new tricks here too.

Rock on!

 

[tomjasz]

t's obvious that experimenting with these settings seems to ruffle some feathers with people.

If you had to honor a warranty and the customer never mentions experimenting you'd soon change tunes. No ruffled feathers here, just 7 years of BBSxx support. And hundreds of BBSxx series sales. AND riding BBSxx series personal bikes since 2014.

Bafang does not cover warranty replacements by resellers, The shop eats it.

I do get that there are potential improvements. A great thread this is!

Carry on and thanks for posting! Good stuff.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Liar liar pants on fire.
I'm sending inquiries from non customers to this thread. Good stuff thank you.
7 years of EM3ev settings and happy. 250W and 350W 36V.

I've learned new tricks here too.

Rock on!

I was happy with supermarket ice cream until I went to Italy and tasted real gelato. Now I make my own and my dark chocolate blows away everything from Häagen-Dazs to Talenti. Sometimes you just don't know what you're missing 'cause you just haven't experienced it.

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

If you had to honor a warranty and the customer never mentions experimenting you'd soon change tunes. No ruffled feathers here, just 7 years of BBSxx support. And hundreds of BBSxx series sales. AND riding BBSxx series personal bikes since 2014.

Bafang does not cover warranty replacements by resellers, The shop eats it.

I do get that there are potential improvements. A great thread this is!

Carry on and thanks for posting! Good stuff.

Understandable! I'm a rare breed, doesn't matter what I buy the warranty is violated within a day. I've been an electronics repair specialist in the past so I'm a little more brave than most when it comes to experimenting/modding/hacking on any platform. I could definitely foresee a lot of problems with a programming cable in the hands of someone inexperienced! There are a few Current settings (ie throttle) that could bork a good controller rather quickly. I imagine I'd be cautious too after eating a few sales due to misuse.

 

[Gionnirocket]

If you had to honor a warranty and the customer never mentions experimenting you'd soon change tunes. No ruffled feathers here, just 7 years of BBSxx support. And hundreds of BBSxx series sales. AND riding BBSxx series personal bikes since 2014.

Bafang does not cover warranty replacements by resellers, The shop eats it.

I do get that there are potential improvements. A great thread this is!

Carry on and thanks for posting! Good stuff.

The warranty argument would be legitimate if we were hot rodding and/or not willing to accept the consequences of any mishaps.
But that's not the case here. From the day after receiving the programming cable my BBS has been tamer and safer then the way it was sent to me.
And now it's smoother.... all things that (in my mind) will make it last longer as well as make it more enjoyable.

 

[AHicks]

I'm expecting a bike to be in working condition when received new. I'll take it from there.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You've proven me wrong rather swiftly hahaha .

I think I know what's going on though, your PAS screenshot puzzled me for a few moments until I remembered something obvious I've overlooked. In the throttle settings there exists the PAS setting. I can't find where I read it atm but those PAS settings from 1-9 correlate with current limits at the firmware level. So for the sake of this discussion (since I can't find any documentation) let's say PAS 9 = 100% current, PAS 8 = 90% current, and so on.

This makes perfect sense to me now. In your PAS 4 setting you'd be applying 70% of 50% maximum current (35% total current). At PAS 5 you'd be applying 70% of 60% maximum current (42% total current). So even though they have the same settings on the PAS page they have different applied currents. The speed is still a speed limit but the current is being applied logarithmically so it feels a little like the settings are correlated as the PAS level goes up.

We are also literally programming the 'curve' ourselves here I think. If you were to max out all speed and current settings to 100% you would likely experience linear increases throughout the PAS settings and it probably wouldn't feel good. My settings also make more sense to me now as I felt my upper PAS settings were giving exponentially more power than the lower ones. This is explained by the logarithmic nature of the current setting.

I'd love to get my hands on a proper service manual for one of these motors. The great thing about the BBSxx motors is the level of customization you can do but support for them isn't great when it comes to technical info. Knowing things like the base current level for each PAS would take the magic right out of all the other settings.

And lastly,

I changed a few settings today:

Current (on page 1) from 18A to 20A
Stop Decay from 150ms to 250ms
Keep Current from 70% to 80%

I'm finding the bike way zippier with these settings. I'm pedaling with far less effort once I reach max speed. I can still feel the cutout from the motor slightly but it is noticably smoother than at 150ms. I'm not sure how much higher I'd want to go though, it's actually very comfortable at 250ms. I'm still gonna try 1100 this weekend for shits and giggles and see what happens

Ok. . I think I've proven myself wrong this morning rather swiftly. . .

It occurred to me that a simple test would be to get the bike up to a relatively fast ground speed like going down a hill and then slowly ghost pedal in the lower PAS to see if the motor applies any assistance. It does not until the ground speed gets considerably slower... thus it can not be governed solely by motor speed or cadence. This still puzzles me as if it was solely a ground speed setting, my example of obtaining a faster speed in a higher gear wouldn't hold true either. Now I wonder if it is a combination of both interpolated to some medium value by the controller?
That said it's obvious that your understanding of the logic applied here is above my pay scale.
Honestly I'm not too concerned about this as I've stated earlier when it comes to Speed and Current in PAS settings as I can get it to do what I want , though it's obvious I don't fully understand how it gets there.

Now Santo Bafango. . bless me for I have sinned and this morning I tried a setting that no one has ever dared to and set a Stop Decay of 1500ms. I can't say it was considerably better then 1100ms, but it definitely didn't make things worse and I'm going to leave it there for a while and adjust other settings on page 2.
Current Decay is one I'd like to explore. I'm wondering if a lower setting widens the decay curve and makes it smoother or does it it just stop assisting sooner? I'm currently at 6 and may try 4 next.
Stop Delay is another as it is fickle with the BBS02B and with lower numbers then the standard 250ms it seems to be quirky. Below 100ms it just disables PAS. I understand this to be a BBS02B specific gremlin... but now I wonder if having set other setting to different then others have tried, could it now be possible to set this lower without gremlins.

Anywho. . .no smoke yet. Just keep a controller on stand-by with a Priority Label

 

[tomjasz]

Temp probe would be good.

 

[tomjasz]

But that's not the case here.

Doh ? Why didn’t I figure that out. AGAIN I care less and have no skin in your game. <wink>
I think I’ve often repeated it is n00bs that read these threads and think it’s cool to follow forum ideas. Experiment.
There are pitfalls. Period. This brain trust isn’t indicative of a large percentage of kit builders.
Carry on!
I learn something new everyday.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Doh ? Why didn’t I figure that out. AGAIN I care less and have no skin in your game. <wink>
I think I’ve often repeated it is n00bs that read these threads and think it’s cool to follow forum ideas. Experiment.
There are pitfalls. Period. This brain trust isn’t indicative of a large percentage of kit builders.
Carry on!
I learn something new everyday.

I know... But your blessing is always welcomed

Temp probe would be good.

And I just took my temperature... No fever

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

@tomjasz has Bafang ever supplied you with a proper service manual? I'm curious if such a thing exists. If I could get my hands on one I'll be more than happy to share any wisdom I can glean from it

 

[Gionnirocket]

@tomjasz has Bafang ever supplied you with a proper service manual? I'm curious if such a thing exists. If I could get my hands on one I'll be more than happy to share any wisdom I can glean from it

a proper service manual? from Bafang?
oh my God, I hadn't realized how funny you can be

 

[AHicks]

Well, there's that....

But assuming for just a second there WAS a Bafang manual, my experience with similar technical manuals (the one for the KT controllers comes to mind here for anyone familiar) tells me there is very little doubt it would be written in "Chinglish" (please, no insults intended), and interpretations of even the simplest concepts involved in tuning an BBSxx and/or Ultra would take years to interpret/figure out.

Nope. I think we're further ahead just comparing our notes and figuring it out on our own. -Al

 

[tomjasz]

There is a BBSHD dealers manual. Quite nice but ZERO programming.
Bafang has always hated the day someone released the programming files all those years ago. They’ve released controllers locking out 52V, and have always disregarded any dealers request for serial number ranges for version changes.
That said, a DIY user willing to learn can have a long happy life with a motor I’ve had many happy rides since 2014. The help resources across the WWW is stellar. Google searches using correct nomenclature reveal a broad global virtual world of support. More than any other kit IMO.

 

[tomjasz]

Nope. I think we're further ahead just comparing our notes and figuring it out as a group. -Al

 

[Gionnirocket]

There is a BBSHD dealers manual. Quite nice but ZERO programming.
Bafang has always hated the day someone released the programming files all those years ago. They’ve released controllers locking out 52V, and have always disregarded any dealers request for serial number ranges for version changes.
That said, a DIY user willing to learn can have a long happy life with a motor I’ve had many happy rides since 2014. The help resources across the WWW is stellar. Google searches using correct nomenclature reveal a broad global virtual world of support. More than any other kit IMO.

So are you saying that you don't have an official pdf from Bafang making statements such as
PAS 1. Motor Turn
PAS 2. Motor Turn Faster.


Nope. I think we're further ahead just comparing our notes and figuring it out as a group.

Kumbaya my Santo.... Kumbaya.....

 

[voidedwarranty]

Great thread

I need more insight to the programming. I messed with it once when I first got the bike and haven't touched it since but I had no idea what or why I was changing things, just made sure I wasn't doing anything detrimental. Now that I have more riding under my belt I want things differently but don't have any idea where to start.

 

[AHicks]

Great thread

I need more insight to the programming. I messed with it once when I first got the bike and haven't touched it since but I had no idea what or why I was changing things, just made sure I wasn't doing anything detrimental. Now that I have more riding under my belt I want things differently but don't have any idea where to start.

You have an Ultra, right? If so, I would encourage you to save your existing settings any way you'd like, then try the "Smooth" settings. You can read more about my thoughts in the first note here:

Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

So recently I decided to scrap all of my original ideas, which all seemed to dead end, and try something completely new. I went back to all of the original settings, and when I test drove that, it reminded me how bad those setting really are. No point detailing, if you're reading this you likely...

electricbikereview.com

Try that for a few miles and see what you think, then go from there. My bet is, you'll be a lot closer to perfect than you are now....

 

[voidedwarranty]

You have an Ultra, right? If so, I would encourage you to save your existing settings anyway you'd like, then try the "Smooth" settings. You can read more about my thoughts in the first note here:

Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

So recently I decided to scrap all of my original ideas, which all seemed to dead end, and try something completely new. I went back to all of the original settings, and when I test drove that, it reminded me how bad those setting really are. No point detailing, if you're reading this you likely...

electricbikereview.com

Try that for a few miles and see what you think, then go from there. My bet is, you'll be a lot closer to perfect than you are now....

I have a BBSHD. The jerkiness drives me crazy on and off throttle and sometimes on and off pedalling. Pedalling is not as bad. Throttle is so annoying to be smooth with and I have it set to current instead of speed which helped a lot