AHicks
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Mr. Rocket will be along shortly. I'm pretty sure he'll have some useful ideas for you...
BBS** Settings/Pedal Assist/Stop Decay *Excellent Motor Refinement *
- Thread starter Gionnirocket
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voidedwarranty
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voidedwarranty
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@Gionnirocket
I haven't touched anything on the basic page but I took a bunch of your settings from pedal assist with the exception of a minor tweak to start current. (settings from post 1). I also finally tweaked the throttle down from some stupid high start current, I think it was 50 and turned it down to 2. Throttle is so smooth now, my IGH is much happier. Noticed some smoothness improvements in PAS 1 but I only rode around the block once so like less than 1/2 miles probably. Will do 10 miles tomorrow night but I have a good feeling about this.
I haven't touched anything on the basic page but I took a bunch of your settings from pedal assist with the exception of a minor tweak to start current. (settings from post 1). I also finally tweaked the throttle down from some stupid high start current, I think it was 50 and turned it down to 2. Throttle is so smooth now, my IGH is much happier. Noticed some smoothness improvements in PAS 1 but I only rode around the block once so like less than 1/2 miles probably. Will do 10 miles tomorrow night but I have a good feeling about this.
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voidedwarranty
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So my throttle start current is now 2 in order to get a smooth start and stop the jerky initial throttle engagement with my IGH but I'm wondering if the throttle ramp up should be brought up further because now it feels very slow. I want the smooth smart but once it's on I'd like a little more ramp up. That's the slow start percentage I believe? I think it's set to 4 or 5. I'm wondering if 7 would do what I'm looking for. For clarity sake I'm referring to the throttle page settings, not pedal assist.
Start current: 2
Slow start: 7? (Currently 4 or 5 I think)
*I gotta start writing this s*it down for when I don't have my laptop and bike in front of me.
Start current: 2
Slow start: 7? (Currently 4 or 5 I think)
*I gotta start writing this s*it down for when I don't have my laptop and bike in front of me.
This is a neat thread that I did not see earlier. I don't visit this forum that often.
I am reading with interest but unsure of exactly what is being done as my software or firmware is a bit different. I have a 2016 BBSHD that has not been updated. I am unaware of any updated that are downloadable.
I am in Dave's situation. A fat bike that is 90 lbs with a 200 lb rider. I also tow a trailer up to 140 lb. I have had the same setting for the last 4 years or so. I do not commute but do long distance rides where I want 17-20 mph speeds. 28-32kph. Current is a % of 30 amps and speed is a % of 45 kph I am running a DCP-14 display
For the most part, I have been quite satisfied with the settings I have and so have other people whom I have programed for. My settings are very smooth. The only issue I do not like is when I am faster than the setting and dropping is speed. The power does not kick in until I am well below the speed set and then have to accelerate back up to speed. If I touch the brake as soon as I drop to the speed cutoff the power comes in smoothly without the big drop. I have not experimented with the settings to try to eliminate that problem.
I am reading with interest but unsure of exactly what is being done as my software or firmware is a bit different. I have a 2016 BBSHD that has not been updated. I am unaware of any updated that are downloadable.
I am in Dave's situation. A fat bike that is 90 lbs with a 200 lb rider. I also tow a trailer up to 140 lb. I have had the same setting for the last 4 years or so. I do not commute but do long distance rides where I want 17-20 mph speeds. 28-32kph. Current is a % of 30 amps and speed is a % of 45 kph I am running a DCP-14 display
For the most part, I have been quite satisfied with the settings I have and so have other people whom I have programed for. My settings are very smooth. The only issue I do not like is when I am faster than the setting and dropping is speed. The power does not kick in until I am well below the speed set and then have to accelerate back up to speed. If I touch the brake as soon as I drop to the speed cutoff the power comes in smoothly without the big drop. I have not experimented with the settings to try to eliminate that problem.
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Gionnirocket
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You take the same approach to PAS as Dave and quite different then me (my Settings) so maybe he can be of more help. And I'm not sure if having an older HD plays into this as well. I have a 2020 '02B
That said. . . If I was going to change anything I would probably try a Work Mode of Undetermined as that is typically the default and I haven't read anything about changing it with better results. Then I would probably try a Slow-start Mode of 4 or 5 as I've had no better results with anything else in my trials. And lastly if you are still looking to try something new I would try a higher Stop Decay. This setting doesn't seem to make changes in small increments so I would try jumps in 20. I went as high as 150 and am now settled at 100. YMMV
I found the approach to be far better for melding with non e bikers in a group ride. I also found it easier on battery usage
Gionnirocket
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I found the opposite when it comes to battery usage...
But then again what I tried was slightly different as my PAS speed were set to 100% across the board as many suggest.
So does the motor ever stop assisting when at slower speeds say 10- 15mph?
No but then I have a heavy fat bike and the watts at PAS-1 are about 75 battery watts and PAS-2 is around 125 watts. Unassisted I can pedal about 10-11 mph and at PAS-1, I can pedal 13-14mph, PAS-2 I can pedal at 14-16 mph. My power jumps correspond to about 2 mph jumps. With a tailwind I become unassisted at 21 mph. At PAS 6, I essentially maintain 20 mph. At the 20 mph the motor does not shut off but drops below the available power. The available power at PAS-6 is around 650 watts and I will watch it bounce around below that to maintain the 20 mph. At lower speeds of 13-15, I get around 6-7 watt hours per mile. At 20mph I am around the 20 watt hours per mile unless I am towing. Remember, I have a bike that is high wind resistance.
Gionnirocket
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That's the beauty of these things... You can make changes that work best for you.
I often ride at different speeds and different desired cadence so I like that the motor stops assisting or only inputs what I need to maintain. I average on a 20 mile ride with many hills approximately 7wh/mile... But like you said, much less weight and wind resistance. I'm @200lbs bike and rider
Gionnirocket
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Doing my daily 20mi today I wanted to see what the differential was between motor assistance cut_out and restart.
For the most part when riding a flat (of the very little I have in my area) the average was 0.2mph and never more than 0.3mph.
For example (very unscientific) in 4th gear/PAS 5 (middle of both ranges) the motor would cut_out at 16.0 mph and would restart at either 15.9 or 15.8 mph with about 24w of assistance. If I let it drop further by me assisting less it would add roughly an additional 24w per 1 tenth mph. This was consistent if I tried to ride right at the cut_off point as well as when I went 2-4mph faster and then let it fall. When riding into a hill where the mph would drop quicker, the motor was more aggressive to catch back up.
I think the motor is turning back on at the same point but the sample rate of the display is producing some variation in what I see as far mph.
Not sure why you have the situation that you describe.. but you should be able to rectify it. Though I can't guarantee that it won't break some other desired attribute
Gionnirocket
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I have no idea
I thought that you were trying to address the assistance not coming back on unless you had a dramatic drop in speed
AHicks
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Using the "shotgun" approach to try and make it "work better" is generally not near as productive as identifying an issue you'd like to fix, or at least address, then make that issue the focus of your changes. Making just one change at a time makes it far easier to judge the results of that change, eg: it helped, it didn't help, or it didn't change a thing.
Personally, I like to make pretty good sized changes. Big enough where I can judge the change easily - eg: am I even working in the right area? -Al
Personally, I like to make pretty good sized changes. Big enough where I can judge the change easily - eg: am I even working in the right area? -Al
voidedwarranty
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I agree with you. I go in saying "I'm just going to change this one thing" and before I know it, 5 parameters have been changed, I'm hitting write flash, and not remembering what I even did.
"Next time, next time I'll stick to being more restrained."
That was at least 5 sessions ago.
AHicks
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Taking note of those changes, and judging them one at a time (or even as a group?) might work out well....I agree with you. I go in saying "I'm just going to change this one thing" and before I know it, 5 parameters have been changed, I'm hitting write flash, and not remembering what I even did.
"Next time, next time I'll stick to being more restrained."
That was at least 5 sessions ago.
Bigger point is you need to be organized about it, or you aren't going anywhere. You are lost in a sea of changes, and the only way to progress is to go back to the way it was when you got it and start over again....
Gionnirocket
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That's why I save each change as a different file name with ever increasing number. Then anything that's an improvement gets a +
That makes it real easy to go back and review.
My last file ends in 71++
That makes it real easy to go back and review.
My last file ends in 71++
I am currently not trying to change the power coming back I am trying what you said gave you a big improvement and seeing if there is an improvement in anything I can detect. . I am not sure from reading your posts what exactly is the improvement you are seeing with this change. I am willing to duplicate your results if I can. Now I did not ride it far enough to tell any differences. Give me your best guess I what I might see. Duplicating is not necessarily researching.I have no idea
I thought that you were trying to address the assistance not coming back on unless you had a dramatic drop in speed
Reason I am asking is that my system is a bit different and so are my other settings. If changing the slow start mode is big then its likely universal even with other parameters different. That is the only change I made other than setting the start mode back to undetermined. One thing at a time.
Gionnirocket
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Ok then if you are referring to the reason for this thread... It's the Stop Decay setting that I am talking about.
Probably best that you start from post #1
I read through every post before I posted. Yes you started out with a discussion of stop decay but put it in conjunction with low start mode as working better together. In the above quote you seem to indicate to start with the slow start mode instead of the stop decay.
I can play with both of them but would prefer separate to begin with. Which one first? The benefits you list are smoother operation, faster acceleration and better battery management but that is pretty subjective. I was hoping for a better description. What make you conclude those things. I am a touchy feely type of person that tunes into how the bike feels vs facts and figures. I have 12 e bikes out there that I program for others and all but mine is a BBSO2 and all are old folks.
I am looking for things like at what speed or point of acceleration do you see the greatest benefits. What subtleties made you settle on a stop decay of 95?
I am trying to learn from your research rather than recreate the same wheel. It saves a lot of time if you know what subtleties to tune into.
Now if I can see no benefits that does not mean that your findings are invalid. Ii might mean that they work great with your approach of high power and low speed limits. vs low power and higher speed limits like my approach to programing. It would be nice to document any limitations rather than one size fits all. I can also try these things on a BBSO2 bike with my normal settings. My settings work great for old folks so far but I am always looking for improvements. The e bike world moves too fast to close your mind.
