How does PAS work on the Zen Photon?

[PCeBiker]

I think you're taking a white paper analysis of one characteristic as gospel.

I think it's like comparing an 8T hub motor to a 10T or 12T hub motor.
The white paper analysis is pretty much gospel in that comparison.

It looks like when the M630 hits ~85 rpms it's 85.4% efficient and the power/torque output stops at ~90 rpms. The M620 is only ~75% efficient at 85 rpms.

I suppose that you could go all Spin Class with a spun up instructor and take the M620 up to 140 rpms to bring the motor into the ~85.4% efficiency range, but the human doing the pedaling is risking injury and just trying to show off in class anyway.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Wow, my mid-drive's cadence sweet spot is 80-90 RPM, and happily, mine's about 82-92 RPM these days. The M620 would be roughly 75% efficient at these cadences. Since I spin out at ~105 RPM, I'd never come close to the 85% peak.

But I'd be willing to bet that the m620 will outperform your mid drive no mater the cadence you choose to roll at.
Y'all are letting the trees block your view of the forests.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well,.. I guess, but if I ever bought a mid-drive with a choice of motor, I'd pick the M630, especially when my preferred cadence is 0.

I hope it comes with a throttle?

M630 are just rolling out. I believe it uses the same motor mount as the M620 so upgrading is doable. I believe I've read that it also cost about 50% more and has 250nm of torque. Good luck with your drive train. If I was younger, maybe.. but the m620 @ 160nm has all the torque I will ever need at any cadence.
And yes. THROTTLE Ready.

 

[PCeBiker]

It's just the unnecessary 10% waste that bugs me because nobody in the real world is gonna wanna pedal much over a cadence of ~85.

M630 are just rolling out. I believe it uses the same motor mount as the M620 so upgrading is doable.

I believe I've read that it also cost about 50% more and has 250nm of torque.

I'd pay the difference, even if it just based on what's written in the scriptures.

Good luck with your drive train. If I was younger, maybe.. but the m620 @ 160nm has all the torque I will ever need at any cadence.

Just cuz the M630 has tons of torque doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. It's just there if you need it occasionally, and it's got more efficient torque at lower cadence too, so less waste.

I'm sure you could get by with a strong old-school 6 speed cassette if you just match your personal preferred cadence with your e-bikes speed and adjustable PAS modes.

And yes. THROTTLE Ready.

OK, now I want an M630, and I didn't even know what that was until today.
So thanks for that.

Now I'm going to need a new e-bike to put it on ?

You and @m@Robertson keep informing me about things that I don't need and never knew I wanted.

You're both costing me a lot of money.

 

[Gionnirocket]

It's just the unnecessary 10% waste that bugs me because nobody in the real world is gonna wanna pedal much over a cadence of ~85.







I'd pay the difference, even if it just based on what's written in the scriptures.



Just cuz the M630 has tons of torque doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. It's just there if you need it occasionally, and it's got more efficient torque at lower cadence too, so less waste.

I'm sure you could get by with a strong old-school 6 speed cassette if you just match your personal preferred cadence with your e-bikes speed and adjustable PAS modes.



OK, now I want an M630, and I didn't even know what that was until today.
So thanks for that.

Now I'm going to need a new e-bike to put it on ?

You and @m@Robertson keep informing me about things that I don't need and never knew I wanted.

You're both costing me a lot of money.

Think of the m620 as described earlier... It's a Ferrari.
So driving it around town it's not going to be the most efficient. Get it on the freeway and it's better. Take it on the race track and it shines.
That said, what would you rather have for all your driving needs, a Ferrari or a very efficient Toyota Corolla?
That, that said... and said earlier... on a 80lb bike I've achieved 6.5wh/mi with it and average about 8 to 9wh/mi (dependant on my health) riding a fair amount of hills.. very easily I'll add this time.
Are any bikes/motors doing much better? The numbers and charts are important, but not the end all decision maker. At least not for me.

The M630 is impressive.
For me the major downside is it only comes with a CANbus controller which Bafang has locked down pretty tightly.
The personal tune_ability of the UART m620 is a grand slam homerun in my book and drooling over specs takes second place.
Back in the day I owned a 96 Trans Am that had the same motor specs as my 99 Corvette.
Which car do you think I preferred hands down and without a doubt?

So if you want one of either motor you'll need a bike built around it as these motors have a unique motor mount.
The mount is for sale but they're not a DIY build unless you're welding up a frame as well..

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Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V. If you are looking for high power motor for your ebike, the Bafang Ultra motor is suitable for you.

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[MartsEbike]

For a brief moment I achieved maximum efficiency on my Frey EX with a M620 motor.

 

[Gionnirocket]

For a brief moment I achieved maximum efficiency on my Frey EX with a M620 motor.

View attachment 187830

I was told that if you do reach maximum efficiency not only will the bike break the hold of gravity but you'll simultaneously cream your shorts.
How was it?

 

[MartsEbike]

I was told that if you do reach maximum efficiency not only will the bike break the hold of gravity but you'll simultaneously cream your shorts.
How was it?

Not recommend. Legs spinning like I was trying to enter a new dimension, a portal opened and I could see the devil waiting for me on the other side. Stay below 100 rpm!

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. it only comes with a CANbus controller which Bafang has locked down pretty tightly.
,.. you'll need a bike built around it as these motors have a unique motor mount.
,.. they're not a DIY build unless you're welding up a frame as well..

Well, I don't want to build a frame just to mount a fancy a motor to it.
And I Certainly Don't want a proprietary locked down motor.

I'll join Stephan and Petaluma's fall from grace and join the dark side with a specialized if I'm looking for a new religion and something to obey without question.

So, that's good news.
Now I don't want an M630 until it's available in UART, which may never happen because secret proprietary CANBUS is the next greatest advancement in technology.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. a portal opened and I could see the devil waiting for me on the other side.

Was it Stephan or Petaluma??

Petaluma used to smoke Vados.
Now he sells them.

 

[PCeBiker]

Back in the day I owned a 96 Trans Am that had the same motor specs as my 99 Corvette.

Back in the day I owned a white 94 4WD Pontiac Sunrunner.
It was built for 18 year old rich girls to get back and forth from the beach.

It had a 1.6 liter 97 hp engine that actually got better MPG in the city than on the highway.

I bought it to go 4-wheeling in the dirt and put light truck tires on it to help with that.

I bought it based on the what was written on paper about it, but never did like looking at the damn thing that was built for girls.
I had a great time driving the living snot out of the thing though.

 

[SpinningGears]

Was it Stephan or Petaluma??

Petaluma used to smoke Vados.
Now he sells them.


View attachment 187833

Neither, it was mart hiself. Splitter.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Back in the day I owned a white 94 4WD Pontiac Sunrunner.
It was built for 18 year old rich girls to get back and forth from the beach.

It had a 1.6 liter 97 hp engine that actually got better MPG in the city than on the highway.

I bought it to go 4-wheeling in the dirt and put light truck tires on it to help with that.

I bought it based on the what was written on paper about it, but never did like looking at the damn thing that was built for girls.
I had a great time driving the living snot out of the thing though.

Sounds like the Step thru of motor vehicles

I still have another same era Corvette and it averages 23.5mpg (about 28 just highway). My Pontiac GP gets 17.5mpg.
I really don't drive much so it's not worth getting something more economical at this juncture.
That said.. It's days are numbered as it's not my thing much anymore.

Pretty son_bitch though...





The Trans Am was a guido_mobile and a beast but sloppy.

 

[Gionnirocket]

@Cybersnow
If you haven't picked up on it...the new m630 motor might be the upgrade you are looking for.
Your existing m620 is CANbus so all the accompanying electronics should be compatible and the M630 should bolt right to the M620 motor mount.
Please verify all this and more as I have no official documentation on how easy this will be to do.

Bafang M630 Thread

Fresh off the press and unveiled at the 2023 Shanghai Cycle Show The "M620 Killer!!", kicking out 250NM of peak torque. Surely, no drivetrain is designed for a motor like this!? ......oh!!!! Well, I guess it was inevitable that Bafang would capitalise on building another powerful motor. And...

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