Zen Photon Pro contact points mods?

[jim1274]

I suppose start with the least controversial/personal preference one—grips:

When I first rode the Photon, I thought the grip shape/size/profile had potential to be as good or better than my preferred “house” grips, the Ergon. While I like the OEM Photon grips, think i will replace with Ergon—find the Ergon larger support pad more comfortable and supportive. I have Ergon GP1 on another e-bike (Ride1up 700) and Ergon GS1 on my Norco Scene. The smaller GS1 is even a little wider than the Photon grips, already planning to replace the GS1 on my Norco (GS1 moving to my Spot Acme for a test) next week with the GC1, their model especially for curved handlebars. I suspect the Photon will be sporting the GC1 soon too.

Anyone else using Ergon grips on their Photon?

Next on the controversial/personal scale—pedals:

Anyone else find the OEM pedals too grippy? I’m struggling to understand why Zen would equip the Photon with an ultra grippy pedal for this style of bike/riding? The pedals have extra long 6mm screw pins—wouldn’t more typical 4mm pins be plenty and more suitable? I found them so grippy, got my foot caught on the pedal when stopping and dismounting, fortunately only getting a bunch of gashes on my legs and not ending up on the ground. I see these pedals, when purchased separately, come packaged with alternate 4mm pins, but Zen chose to stay with the 6mm.

Base Pedal

Temporarily, I switched the OEM Photon e*thirteen pedals with the OEM ones on my Ride1up 700, a Wellgo pedal with 4mm molded pins, shorter and a lot less sharp/grippy than the Photon 6mm screws.

Anyone using a different pedal on their Photon?

Lastly, the seat:

I wasn’t even sure this can of worms was worth opening, as opinions and personal preferences vary more on seats than maybe anything else. I found the Photon OEM seat to be “ok”, but comfort seemed to wane after about the one hour saddle time mark. Have not tried a longer duration yet, but think I’ll be trying some alternatives saddles soon.

My local bike shop guy suggested trying an ISM seat, the PR 3.0 specifically:

https://shop-us.ismseat.com/products/pr-3-0

Since the Photon is a more upright riding position, I thought that one from the ISM “comfort” line might be a better choice to test, but he said “I’m not sold on those”. I was thinking one of these 2 models:

https://shop-us.ismseat.com/products/metro

https://shop-us.ismseat.com/products/touring

Anybody try one from this series or other IML saddles?

Others on the prospect list are SQLab and the Selle SMP series (E-SUV, E-TRK, and E-CITY)

Probably should not even opened the saddle can of worms…

 

[Deacon Blues]

My wife's biggest beef with her Photon is the display, which washes out on sunny days.
She also doesn't like the stock grips, because the ends are solid so bar-end mirrors can't be mounted. I ended up switching her left sided grip for an Ergon grip. I haven't replaced the right side yet because I haven't found a short grip that will work with the rotating shifter.
Lastly, I replaced the stock suspension seatpost with a Kinekt seatpost.
She does really like the bike's power and throttle.....especially the throttle.

 

[il Munduato]

Ergon makes short grips for the Rohloff shifter.

Ergon GC1 Rohloff/Nexus Grips:​

Amazon.com

I've used this several times to pop a perfect hole in a grip to facilitate a bar end mirror
Mac Tools MAC NO. GC950 11pc Punch Set

Mac Tools MAC NO. GC950 11pc Punch Set Gasket Cutter Hole w/Case 1/4 - 1" | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Mac Tools MAC NO. GC950 11pc Punch Set Gasket Cutter Hole w/Case 1/4 - 1" at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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I just lube it with silicone grease and pound it through with the grip resting on a block of wood

 

[jim1274]

My wife's biggest beef with her Photon is the display, which washes out on sunny days.

I did notice that the display seemed dimmer than on my Ride1Up 700, but have only ridden the Photon on a shaded trail, so was readable.

She also doesn't like the stock grips, because the ends are solid so bar-end mirrors can't be mounted. I ended up switching her left sided grip for an Ergon grip. I haven't replaced the right side yet because I haven't found a short grip that will work with the rotating shifter.

As the later poster replied, Ergon makes one that will work. I need to get a set myself soon. All my bikes have or will have Ergon grips—they solved some hands going numb problems and wrist pain.

Lastly, I replaced the stock suspension seatpost with a Kinekt seatpost.

I was wondering about the stock suspension seatpost—did folks who switched to a Kinekt notice a big difference?

She does really like the bike's power and throttle.....especially the throttle.

I’ve only ridden the bike twice, but seemed like the throttle was a little strong if using to take off from a dead stop. Maybe no e-bike throttles are progressive and allow feathering to accelerate slow and even?

 

[jim1274]

I've used this several times to pop a perfect hole in a grip to facilitate a bar end mirror
Mac Tools MAC NO. GC950 11pc Punch Set

I was wondering if a handlebar mount mirror might work, but looks like not much real estate left after the throttle and display have used most of it on the left. Something like this:

Amazon.com

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Maybe no e-bike throttles are progressive and allow feathering to accelerate slow and even?

Not so. I've ridden two different 500W torque-sensing hub-drives — mine and my neighbor's. Both have progressive on-demand thumb throttles.

Mine's off for the first third of lever deflection, fully on for the last third, and progressive through the middle third. My neighbor's has a slightly wider progressive band.

In both cases, reliable fine control can be had by bracing the thumb on the throttle housing and rolling it onto the lever to the desired power or torque boost.

A throttle like this is a very handy riding tool with many uses having nothing to do with getting out of pedaling. Mine is typically used just a second or two at a time — always as an adjunct to pedaling.

Experiment and enjoy!

 

[jim1274]

Not so. I've ridden two different 500W torque-sensing hub-drives — mine and my neighbor's. Both have progressive on-demand thumb throttles.

Mine's off for the first third of lever deflection, fully on for the last third, and progressive through the middle third. My neighbor's has a slightly wider progressive band.

In both cases, reliable fine control can be had by bracing the thumb on the throttle housing and rolling it onto the lever to the desired power or torque boost.

A throttle like this is a very handy riding tool with many uses having nothing to do with getting out of pedaling. Mine is typically used just a second or two at a time — always as an adjunct to pedaling.

Experiment and enjoy!

Yes, experiment is the key. I also noticed that when taking off from a dead stop with pedal assist on, it was a bit unpredictable and seemed to surge a bit on the Zen, similar to what the cadence sensor did on my Ride1Up 700. I’m back to biking after more decades than I care to admit, and find there clearly is a learning curve on E-bikes. The assist behavior when taking off from a dead stop seemed a bit jarring on both e-bikes, such that I disabled assist completely when taking off. (I was only on level 1—would probably be worse at higher assist levels). I actually ride and enjoy my non-powered bikes more for shorter rides. Don’t really see the point in electric assist and double the weight of the bike to handle when just taking a short cruise of under an hour.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yes, experiment is the key. I also noticed that when taking off from a dead stop with pedal assist on, it was a bit unpredictable and seemed to surge a bit on the Zen, similar to what the cadence sensor did on my Ride1Up 700. I’m back to biking after more decades than I care to admit, and find there clearly is a learning curve on E-bikes. The assist behavior when taking off from a dead stop seemed a bit jarring on both e-bikes, such that I disabled assist completely when taking off. (I was only on level 1—would probably be worse at higher assist levels). I actually ride and enjoy my non-powered bikes more for shorter rides. Don’t really see the point in electric assist and double the weight of the bike to handle when just taking a short cruise of under an hour.

I'm betting that you'll get used to the power delivery in short order.

 

[jim1274]

I'm betting that you'll get used to the power delivery in short order.

Yeah, I’m still getting accustomed to the nuances of electric.

I’m still a little gun shy after almost biting the dust when getting tangled up in those long sharp pedal pins on my maiden voyage as mentioned in my initial post. Made me a little wary of the dangers that lurk with electric bikes…or maybe it’s just because I’m so damn old…

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yeah, I’m still getting accustomed to the nuances of electric.

I’m still a little gun shy after almost biting the dust when getting tangled up in those long sharp pedal pins on my maiden voyage as mentioned in my initial post. Made me a little wary of the dangers that lurk with electric bikes…or maybe it’s just because I’m so damn old…

Yeah, my calves and shins looked like war zones for a month after switching to pedals with those !@#$^^&*! pins. And lower leg wounds take a while to heal at 75. Thankfully, the legs eventually learned to stay out of harm's way on their own.

Try increasing the number of non-zero assist levels if you can. My torque-sensing hub-drive offers 3, 5, 6, and 9 levels, with 1/9 being substantially less powerful than the default 1/5.

Once I lowered my gearing to keep cadence up on the many hills here, 1/9 turned out to be plenty well over 90% of the time.

 

[il Munduato]

Yeah, I’m still getting accustomed to the nuances of electric.

I’m still a little gun shy after almost biting the dust when getting tangled up in those long sharp pedal pins on my maiden voyage as mentioned in my initial post. Made me a little wary of the dangers that lurk with electric bikes…or maybe it’s just because I’m so damn old…

Also make sure you are starting off in a low gear. A high torque motor will pull in most any gear so it can feel more aggressive in a high gear.

 

[PCeBiker]

My wife's biggest beef with her Photon is the display, which washes out on sunny days.

I put an Anti-Glare screen protector on my display.

It was for my phone, but was big enough to cover my display. I just had to trim it.
It made a big difference, and wasn't too expensive.
(Make sure you get Anti-Glare, not the regular screen protector.)

 

[jim1274]

Yeah, my calves and shins looked like war zones for a month after switching to pedals with those !@#$^^&*! pins. And lower leg wounds take a while to heal at 75. Thankfully, the legs eventually learned to stay out of harm's way on their own.

Well, that makes me feel better—thought getting gouged by pedals was rare and meant you really screwed up. The gouges are not what bothered me, the real concern was that I came as close as it gets to going down in the process.

What am I missing here on Zen’s choice of using one of the grippiest pedals out there? What’s the point/need on this type of bike? Seems overkill on the grip front to me.

I did find, after trying several different shoes on my various bikes/pedals, the shoes make a difference too. I just recently picked up a pair of flat pedal riding shoes, which made a difference in grip, actually needing even less pedal platform grip. My mishap was using some running shoes—think I might have gotten caught by those pedal pungi sticks in a sole groove. Those biking shoes have excellent sole grip to the point where they have good grip even on my least grippy pedals (my Norco Scene with just low profile nubs). I’m thinking about trying some Vibram pedals combined with the bike shoes on the Photon.

These:

Geo City Grip | Express your personality | LOOK Cycle

We’ve combined our legendary pedal performance with the expertise of the world’s most famous mountain grip brand to create a fantastic town and country pedal.

www.lookcycle.com

Or these for even more grip but no leg shredder pins:

Trail Grip | The fun of off-road adventures | LOOK Cycle

Unique, mountain peak-evolved, composite stud and rubber lug tread inserts give brilliant bike control, and slip free security without trashing your shoes.

www.lookcycle.com

Try increasing the number of non-zero assist levels if you can. My torque-sensing hub-drive offers 3, 5, 6, and 9 levels, with 1/9 being substantially less powerful than the default 1/5.

Once I lowered my gearing to keep cadence up on the many hills here, 1/9 turned out to be plenty well over 90% of the time.

I didn’t even know you could change the assist level numbers—don’t know if Photon controller supports this function? There was no owners manual with my bike—need to track one down it seems.

I pretty much set my assist level to 1 on both e-bikes and left it there. Even 1 made it easier to pedal than my non-electric Norco. I only envision using more than assist level 1 on a long journey where my mojo isn’t sufficient to go 50+ miles without a little more help.

 

[jim1274]

Also make sure you are starting off in a low gear. A high torque motor will pull in most any gear so it can feel more aggressive in a high gear.

Good point, and THINK I did that, but with the Enviolo it’s not as precise on what gear you are in as on a bike with discrete gears. A better way to display the current gear setting on the Enviolo would have been nice.

I’m still trying to get accustomed to the Enviolo. The jury is out, but too early to say. I think the Automatiq version would be the way to go and not sure why Zen doesn’t offer that option. I came close to buying a Gazelle Ultimate instead just to get the Automatiq.

Have not seen anyone here on the forum who has done the Automatiq conversion, but apparently can be done from what I’ve read.

 

[jim1274]

I put an Anti-Glare screen protector on my display.


View attachment 178994
It was for my phone, but was big enough to cover my display. I just had to trim it.
It made a big difference, and wasn't too expensive.
(Make sure you get Anti-Glare, not the regular screen protector.)

Bingo! Just ordered one—nice tip!

 

[CincyKid]

I just updated my contact points. Handlebar, grips, saddle.

Wider, flatter bars. 780mm wide, 8 degree backsweep, 5 degree upsweep.

Silicone grips.

Terry Liberator Y gel saddle.

I did install a seat post clamp as well. QR would not stop slipping. Yes, greased.

More reach means I'm not as upright.

Wider, flatter bars have also made the bike more responsive when turning.

I agree the pedals are very aggressive. Even more so than what I'm running on my gravel hybrid. I like them.

 

[jim1274]

I just updated my contact points. Handlebar, grips, saddle.

Wider, flatter bars. 780mm wide, 8 degree backsweep, 5 degree upsweep.

Silicone grips.

Terry Liberator Y gel saddle.

That’s a saddle brand I’ve not happened upon so far—looks a lot like several I did see in some other lines investigated.

I did install a seat post clamp as well. QR would not stop slipping. Yes, greased.

More reach means I'm not as upright.

Wider, flatter bars have also made the bike more responsive when turning.

You moved in the “hot rod” more aggressive riding position direction. The Photon feels about right for an upright relaxed position. I’ve been trying to do the exact opposite on my Spot Acme, turning it from more of a crotch rocket to a relaxed cruiser, with mixed results at best.

I agree the pedals are very aggressive. Even more so than what I'm running on my gravel hybrid. I like them.

I have some more aggressive pedals on my Spot Acme, but the pedals are about 2” lower to the ground and I don’t seem to get caught up on them as easily. It is nice being able to put your foot on the ground without leaving the seat on something like the Spot and other non-electric bikes. That is a bit of an adjustment on the Photon after being accustomed to putting a foot down easily while still seated. This old dog is not as good at learning new tricks…

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I didn’t even know you could change the assist level numbers—don’t know if Photon controller supports this function? There was no owners manual with my bike—need to track one down it seems.

I pretty much set my assist level to 1 on both e-bikes and left it there. Even 1 made it easier to pedal than my non-electric Norco. I only envision using more than assist level 1 on a long journey where my mojo isn’t sufficient to go 50+ miles without a little more help.

Poke around in the menus in your display. I access my menus by holding the [+] and [-] assist buttons down at the same time. Then use those buttons to scroll and the [info] button to select. Easy to explore.

If I may make a suggestion, make rules for yourself after you've given all of the bike's capabilites a good try. I made too many rules early on — mostly out of old habit on regular bikes — and ended up limiting myself unnecessarily.

In paticular, give yourself permission to ride at any assist level you like, battery permitting. At constant effort and grade on a torque-sensing bike, more assist means more speed means you can get home faster means you don't have to turn around just yet.

 

[jim1274]

Poke around in the menus in your display. I access my menus by holding the [+] and [-] assist buttons down at the same time. Then use those buttons to scroll and the [info] button to select. Easy to explore.

If I may make a suggestion, make rules for yourself after you've given all of the bike's options a good try. I made too many rules early on — mostly out of old habit on regular bikes — and ended up limiting myself unnecessarily.

In paticular, give yourself permission to ride at any assist level you like. At constant effort on a torque-sensing bike, more assist means more speed means you can get home faster means you don't have to turn home just yet.

Have not done anything yet beyond turn on and toggle between 0/1/2 assist level. It would have been nice had they included an owners manual…

Apparently, it’s available to download—just asked my dealer a moment ago to see if it was included on an email to him.

Saw this on another thread:

 

[CincyKid]

Poke around in the menus in your display. I access my menus by holding the [+] and [-] assist buttons down at the same time. Then use those buttons to scroll and the [info] button to select. Easy to explore.

If I may make a suggestion, make rules for yourself after you've given all of the bike's capabilites a good try. I made too many rules early on — mostly out of old habit on regular bikes — and ended up limiting myself unnecessarily.

In paticular, give yourself permission to ride at any assist level you like, battery permitting. At constant effort and grade on a torque-sensing bike, more assist means more speed means you can get home faster means you don't have to turn around just yet.

I like this phrase: "...give yourself permissio to ride at any assist level you like..."

I find myself using PAS 1. It's a great workout.

Then Sunday, this happened: I rode to the donut shop 1/2 mile away. Used the throttle only on the way back just to see what it was like. It was set at PAS 4. 18.5mph with a slight incline and pulling my big butt all the way home.

Yeah, that made me smile.

So much power.