BBS** Settings/Pedal Assist/Stop Decay *Excellent Motor Refinement *

[Gionnirocket]

And I'm not trying to undermine the work you've done. Pretty sure there are many that really appreciated it.

My point was regarding discouraging careful experimentation, and further documentation. No more, no less.

For sure... I think some of the past impressions of these settings that get constantly repeated as written in stone are down right wrong. IMHO.

 

[tomjasz]

I’m thankful I can be blunt with you two. I wish we were neighbors and could share a sandbox!

 

[Gionnirocket]

I’m thankful I can be blunt with you two. I wish we were neighbors and could share a sandbox!

I would have said a six pack.. But ok!

 

[tomjasz]

I would have said a six pack.. But ok!

A decent porter would be good. Just no American beer. Sex in a boat, F’ing near water.

 

[AHicks]

I’m thankful I can be blunt with you two. I wish we were neighbors and could share a sandbox!

Helps maybe that I just turned 70 a couple of months ago. Clearly we have our differences, but in general we run on about the same wave length, and have skin of about the same thickness.

BTW, have lived on an inland lake here in SE Mi since '78. Been playing in the sand and doing it near/in water for a REALLY long time....

Be neat to have a neighbor I could go give a rash on occasion. Then settle our differences on a pontoon boat ride at dusk over a cold whatever. Neighbors are all kids any more. They don't get old men.... -Al

 

[Gionnirocket]

All right.. Enough hijacking my thread with this sentimental sword fighting!

 

[m@Robertson]

I've always wondered why your screenshots of the settings pages looked different. Now that makes sense.
That said. . . Have you seen/tried this? I just used it today for the first time and it's a real game changer. Just in time for everything to go CANBUS!

new Android app for programming

Anyone given this app an audition? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mkopa.speeed&hl=en&gl=US

electricbikereview.com

Yeah I bet. I'm just about the only one on the planet showing those screens it seems. Speaking of which that tool - as convenient as it is - can only store one set of settings. Not sure if thats bad or not as it got me into the habit of taking pics of my screens as they evolve and those are much easier for me to keep track of.

I haven't tried it yet but I have been mindful of the existence of this thread. I recently kicked my slow start mode back to 3 and its not so bad that I feel like taking the possible risk of staying at 2. My Bullitt has been my daily driver lately as the weather has cooled (!) into the low 100's, but for the last couple of days this week its supposed to spike up again and I will be back to using a single-motor bike (the Big Fat Dummy) where things are more 'normal' insofar as the rest of the world's ebikers are concerned. Planning on playing with it then.

My first priority though is to see if there is any meaningful effect between switching back/forth from BB-Sensor-32 and DoubleSignal24. I have ensured my BFD and Bullitt have the same settings between them, and confirmed the BFD is outputting essentially double the watts and amps that the Bullitt is, and after shutting off the front motor I can confirm the 2wd nature of the Bullitt has nothing to do with it. The sole difference is that one setting. I usually leave that one alone depending on how the motor was shipped to me but I'm going to break with that practice as I'm out of things to test to see whats causing it (maybe nothing is causing it and its just different motor internals).

And yeah I have seen the Android app... just in time to be useless. Not really useful to me as well as I have the portable programmer so I'm not as bummed as I am sure most others are.

 

[tomjasz]

Clearly we have our differences

Actually I don’t think we are that different. You have my respect, and differences are what make us successful. How boring it would be to have identical views. Between the two of us, three with Gioni, we know everything,

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yeah I bet. I'm just about the only one on the planet showing those screens it seems. Speaking of which that tool - as convenient as it is - can only store one set of settings. Not sure if thats bad or not as it got me into the habit of taking pics of my screens as they evolve and those are much easier for me to keep track of.

I haven't tried it yet but I have been mindful of the existence of this thread. I recently kicked my slow start mode back to 3 and its not so bad that I feel like taking the possible risk of staying at 2. My Bullitt has been my daily driver lately as the weather has cooled (!) into the low 100's, but for the last couple of days this week its supposed to spike up again and I will be back to using a single-motor bike (the Big Fat Dummy) where things are more 'normal' insofar as the rest of the world's ebikers are concerned. Planning on playing with it then.

My first priority though is to see if there is any meaningful effect between switching back/forth from BB-Sensor-32 and DoubleSignal24. I have ensured my BFD and Bullitt have the same settings between them, and confirmed the BFD is outputting essentially double the watts and amps that the Bullitt is, and after shutting off the front motor I can confirm the 2wd nature of the Bullitt has nothing to do with it. The sole difference is that one setting. I usually leave that one alone depending on how the motor was shipped to me but I'm going to break with that practice as I'm out of things to test to see whats causing it (maybe nothing is causing it and its just different motor internals).

And yeah I have seen the Android app... just in time to be useless. Not really useful to me as well as I have the portable programmer so I'm not as bummed as I am sure most others are.

Well it seems we both feel there's a bit more to understand about these controllers then is already out there. If anything it keeps the wheels in our heads turning as smoothly as our rides.
The Luna box is a nice tool... but I've said this before elsewhere on here. Something similar that series plugs into the display and Bluetooth's to our phones would be the holy grail..... with data logging and all.
Only one day in but the new app is a welcomed addition. It does give you the ability to save files which is nice and another thing I didn't like about the Eggrider. I have over 80 files on my pc and sometimes I go back to refresh myself on what I've already tried. I name files by number and add a "+" on anything that was an improvement which helps me remember what I've done and liked. The best file of a strategy gets a "++"
I think I'll continue to use the pc as I like being able to go back and review occasionally. But being able to make changes on the fly now when something obviously doesn't work or a new idea pops in during a ride I think I will appreciate. As useful as phones are... I like being able to open multiple windows/files on a pc and compare... Plus the display on a phone is smaller and requires a bit of scrolling back and forth.
Anywho... Keep at it. We'll crack these bitch's one day.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Still no takers huh?
Anywho.....
I've landed at a setting of 100 and I can't emphasize how much I'm impressed with this new programming find. The added responsiveness and smoothness have caused me to fall back in love with the BBS02B. And though I was seriously considering purchasing an Ultra powered Frey CC in the fall for delivery next spring... I've now put that on hold at least for another year. Sometimes it's so fluid that I think that I'm just stronger until I look down at the current output on the display and see that I am being assisted.
*FYI... I've edited the thread title to demonstrate my woody for the improvement.

Obviously your other settngs, style of riding and what you expect from the motor are all variables... but I do believe some variation of this setting will help both the casual rider (me) as well as the more aggressive, such as a true mountain biker.
YMMV

 

[mxer]

Current setting is 100% better! It just flows from any speed seamlessly, instead of what felt like it was pulling back trying to find where the motor speed was.

Excellent find, thank you

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thanks!
I'm happy to see that I am not mistaken in the improvements seen by increasing this setting way above what was recommended in the past.
The notion that this setting increases motor run_on after you stop pedaling is completely false...at least on the BBS02B
What motor are you running?

I thought I had found my sweet spot but after reducing Slow Start Mode to 4, I've since increased the Stop Decay to 130 from 5/100 respectively.
I think I now know how Magellan felt... But having played with this setting for near 2 months now, I have no fear of running off the edge of the earth

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

Thanks for the find @Gionnirocket! I had been searching for info on the Stop Decay setting and stumbled on this thread. It gave me the confidence to try tweaking it and WHAT A DIFFERENCE.

I use my bike 100% for commuting. I average 25km/day, usually at a solid pace of 28km/hr. The recommended settings for a BBS02 all seem to be refined for single track and not a smooth ride. Before adjusting the stop decay my motor was jerky and had a lot of lag any time I was pedaling close to the 28km cutout.

I now have my decay set to 150ms and it's incredible. It doesn't affect the cutout at all from the brakes or gear sensors, but when the motor hits my set limit it spins down GRADUALLY so there is no drag from instant cutout. Then when the motor re-engages there isn't a sudden jerk. Everything is buttery smooth.

Specs:
750W BBS02
Speed limited to 32km
Slow Start Mode: 5
Stop Delay: 250ms
Stop Decay: 150ms

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thanks for the find @Gionnirocket! I had been searching for info on the Stop Decay setting and stumbled on this thread. It gave me the confidence to try tweaking it and WHAT A DIFFERENCE.

I use my bike 100% for commuting. I average 25km/day, usually at a solid pace of 28km/hr. The recommended settings for a BBS02 all seem to be refined for single track and not a smooth ride. Before adjusting the stop decay my motor was jerky and had a lot of lag any time I was pedaling close to the 28km cutout.

I now have my decay set to 150ms and it's incredible. It doesn't affect the cutout at all from the brakes or gear sensors, but when the motor hits my set limit it spins down GRADUALLY so there is no drag from instant cutout. Then when the motor re-engages there isn't a sudden jerk. Everything is buttery smooth.

Specs:
750W BBS02
Speed limited to 32km
Slow Start Mode: 5
Stop Delay: 250ms
Stop Decay: 150ms

I'm glad you found the same benefit in this setting that I did... I thought for a while that I was some anomaly or that I was having flashbacks from a misspent childhood
I continue to tweak this as I encounter different terrain on my rides and I'm currently quite happy with...
Slow Start Mode: 5
Stop Delay: 18
Stop Decay: 110
One other setting that you may want to try and adjust is Keep Current. I've found benefits above 85 and currently use 90
And you may want to increase the Top Speed a little over the 28kmh just to give the settings a little more headroom to operate.
Obviously there's too many variables here to know if these will be of any benefit to you.

edit... So for clarification... Do you have a Stop Decay entry of 15 or 150?

Curious... How high of a Stop Decay have you tried?
I haven't gone above 140.....yet

Ride on... Stop Decay Rules!

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

I've been using the Android app Speeed for my programming and the interface and values are slightly different than the Windows app. Speeed uses the actual time values, so you may need to divide my numbers by 10 for equivalent in Windows (to be fair I haven't bothered with the Windows app at all, it seemed clunky compared to Android). My Stop Delay setting of 250ms would be 25 in the Windows app afaik.

I've been playing with Keep Current and settled on 70, I still like to do as much pedaling as possible but 60 was just too low for some hills in my area. At 80 I felt like I wasn't getting to pedal much at all but it was definitely fun!

As far as top speed I've got it limited to 32km in the software to keep it street legal but my first four PAS settings are limited to 28 for efficiency. When I'm pedaling without assistance my average speed is around 27, so by keeping it within a small margin I use significantly less battery. When set to 32km I'm lucky to get 60km from my pack. When set to 28km I've been breaking 100km between charges. The 4km difference is almost unnoticeable on travel time so limiting to 28km for me is a no brainer.

The highest Stop Decay I've tried is the 150ms. I don't think I'll feel a need to go any higher. At 120 I was still getting a bit of lag at the speed limit cutout, at 150 all I feel is ZOOOOM. The deceleration is very natural feeling and I haven't noticed an impact on acceleration at all.

edit: a factor that may be influencing the need for stop decay is the weight of my bike. I'm running a Northrock fat bike with custom lighting and panniers, total weight is 90lbs+ depending on how I've packed. Add a 200 pound rider and we're at the weight limit for the bike itself. Deceleration is instant when the motor cuts out due to high rolling resistance. A lighter bike may not benefit the way I have...

 

[Gionnirocket]

Ok then...
My settings are significantly higher as I'm using a Stop Decay of 1100ms. When I first started playing with this I hadn't noticed much improvement until I went above 400ms. But as you state, all our rides are different and in that you need to personalize things. My bike is about 50 - 55lbs and I'm 160lbs on a good day.
I too use the SPEED app, but also use the Windows software as I feel it makes files easier to compare and reference back to over time.
Note that the PAS SPEED settings on page 1 are not ground speed but motor or cadence speed. This becomes evident when you go up the gear scale in any particular PAS... you start traveling faster with each gear increase so ground speed isn't in the calculation.

Well I'm glad to have a little collaboration on this.
For shits_n_giggles I'm going to try a Stop Decay of 150ms and a Keep Current of 70 as I feel many of the settings feel different as you adjust others and certain combinations work well and not necessarily as you would expect. I dont think I've lowered my Keep Current since I started raising the Stop Decay and you may have stumbled on to something here.

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

Here's a screenshot just to make sure we're comparing apples to apples

A stop decay of 1100 seems high! That's a full second to decelerate lol. I'll try it out though this weekend and report back, you might be on to something there too

 

[Gionnirocket]

Here's a screenshot just to make sure we're comparing apples to apples

View attachment 96832

A stop decay of 1100 seems high! That's a full second to decelerate lol. I'll try it out though this weekend and report back, you might be on to something there too

I agree... But it seems like it's part of an equation and doesn't seem to affect it literally.
The screen shot looks good and we're talking =

 

[Gionnirocket]

Current setting is 100% better! It just flows from any speed seamlessly, instead of what felt like it was pulling back trying to find where the motor speed was.

Excellent find, thank you

@mxer
What Stop Decay setting did you find works best for you?

 

[tomjasz]

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND and n00bs don’t jump in to programming and experimenting. I’ve had a number of experiences with owners toasting their controllers.
I enjoy reading your experiences. Personally I wouldn’t use any settings not found in the 20 .el files I have found.