Bafang Ultra motor and Rohloff 14spd speed hub on an Exess HP E-180 bike.

[greeno]

Okay after being inspired by another members posting on his install on a Luna bike with the same Ultra motor a buddy of mine took the bait and dove in head first to be another trial test on this set-up.

He went to our LBS to get the bike fitted for his order and we decided to do the install ourselves ourself as we’re fairly handy mechanical wise.

Bit of background here.
We both purchased a couple of Exess HP E-180 bikes with the Bafang Ultra motors including the Archon X1 controller upgrade.
He went with the higher wattage version (2200w) and I elected to go with the standard 1000w motor.

He was previously running an 11 sped Shimano drivetrain with a White Industries rear hub but kept going thru hub body’s because of his heavy hand.
Also tore off his derailer like three different times so he was ready for a switch up.

So ordered up a Sun Ringle Duroc 50 32h rim and I built him up a wheel with a 2 cross lacing with some straight gauge spokes and waited for him to bring the whole kit by.

We pulled out all the parts and set them on the workbench then identified the order of install and got to it.


Removed the rear wheel, chain, derailer, chainring, shifters and then turned bike upside down and unbolted the motor and removed the old derailer cable.
Installed the (2) new shifting cables then buttoned up the motor. Flipped bike back upright and placed it back in the stand.

Fitted up the twist shifter, the brake and rt grip and placed the rear wheel in the dropouts and snugged it up.
Measured and installed the chain tensioner, cut to lenght the shifter cable housings and cables And secured those.
Checked the shifting sequence and verified it was correct.

Ran out of time so we left it there.

Will take some pics when we wrap it up and will offer up a couple of tips for anyone else going this route on their machine.

More later.

 

[Deacon Blues]

It will interesting to see if the Rohloff can handle the torque. I know that Pushkar (WW) decided to not use the Rohloff hub on his 2200W motors because he didn't think the hub could handle the torque.

 

[greeno]

One issue we had to figure out was the rear brake mounting.
He originally had a friken 220mm rotor on the back with two different adapters since the frame mount was for I believe a 180mm.
Now the hub itself comes with a brake mount adapter for the torque bracket to secure and we went with a new 203mm 4 bolt rotor as required by Rohloff and we originally thought using only one of his original adapters would work.
Nada it held the brake to high above the new rotor.
So we ditched the old adapter and use some spacers and longer bolts that I had plus also using the two angled type spacers that allow you to mount it at a slight offset to the mounting bolt to get the proper angle.
One thing that helped us figure out the fit was removing the outer side pad so we could see the actual fit of the pad/ rotor that allowed us to see if we needed to raise or lower the spacers.

The rear wheel was fairly simple after building it up we fitted it inside the dropouts to make sure it was centered correctly and then figured out the right and left mounting hardware to bolt the hub to the frame.
Dont forget the rubber o-ring on the inside and the double lock washers on the outside.
The chain tensioner was easy I don’t think we needed any spacers at all as the pulleys lined up perfectly under the rear cog which I think was a 16.

Another thing we did was reposition the shifter mount to be parallel with the chainstay so we positioned the two cables alongside the rear brake cable.
We were able to feed both cables inside the down tube and on top of the motor and coming out at the rear to follow the routing of the original rear brake cable.
Hopefully having those cables on the outside/bottom of the frame won’t be an issue.
There are some good videos on fitting up the shifter cables but make sure you follow them exactly and you’ll be golden.
Cut The two housings where we needed and then pushed in the actual cables and cut those 200mm longer than the housings as per directions.
Mounted the ends on the round pulley inside the mounting bracket as per Rohloff and then had to monkey around to get the inside hub nut to coincide with the actual up/down shifting sequence and all was good.
It makes a difference on the position of the outside pulley nut and inside gear selector nut to match up with the up/down shifting to get all 14 gears.

Just talked to my friend and he’s wrapping up the chainring, chain mounting and filling the hub with some oil and we’ll hook up manana for our regular Tuesday morning ride.
I’ll take a few pics then of the final install and post any feedback he has on the performance of it.

Gonna talk him into riding ATT to see how it goes on some of the steeper stuff.

Till then.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Okay after being inspired by another members posting on his install on a Luna bike with the same Ultra motor a buddy of mine took the bait and dove in head first to be another trial test on this set-up.

He went to our LBS to get the bike fitted for his order and we decided to do the install ourselves ourself as we’re fairly handy mechanical wise.

Bit of background here.
We both purchased a couple of Exess HP E-180 bikes with the Bafang Ultra motors including the Archon X1 controller upgrade.
He went with the higher wattage version (2200w) and I elected to go with the standard 1000w motor.

He was previously running an 11 sped Shimano drivetrain with a White Industries rear hub but kept going thru hub body’s because of his heavy hand.
Also tore off his derailer like three different times so he was ready for a switch up.

So ordered up a Sun Ringle Duroc 50 32h rim and I built him up a wheel with a 2 cross lacing with some straight gauge spokes and waited for him to bring the whole kit by.

We pulled out all the parts and set them on the workbench then identified the order of install and got to it.


Removed the rear wheel, chain, derailer, chainring, shifters and then turned bike upside down and unbolted the motor and removed the old derailer cable.
Installed the (2) new shifting cables then buttoned up the motor. Flipped bike back upright and placed it back in the stand.

Fitted up the twist shifter, the brake and rt grip and placed the rear wheel in the dropouts and snugged it up.
Measured and installed the chain tensioner, cut to lenght the shifter cable housings and cables And secured those.
Checked the shifting sequence and verified it was correct.

Ran out of time so we left it there.

Will take some pics when we wrap it up and will offer up a couple of tips for anyone else going this route on their machine.

More later.

What are your respective Chainring to rear cog ratios/sizes?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Mounted the ends on the round pulley inside the mounting bracket as per Rohloff and then had to monkey around to get the inside hub nut to coincide with the actual up/down shifting sequence and all was good.
It makes a difference on the position of the outside pulley nut and inside gear selector nut to match up with the up/down shifting to get all 14 gears.

I got my shifter backwards first time around, so my twist shifter was in 14, when my gears were in 1! It was easy an easy fix to switch the cable at the cable box, but I would have sworn after watching the video twice, I was doing it correctly!

 

[greeno]

I think he’s got a 40t chainring in the front and a 16t cog on the back.
We also had to figure out the pairing of the internal gear position and the up/down shift cable rotation.
took 2 minutes.
Were heading out in about an hr so I’ll post up some feedback later today.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I think he’s got a 40t chainring in the front and a 16t cog on the back.
We also had to figure out the pairing of the internal gear position and the up/down shift cable rotation.
took 2 minutes.
Were heading out in about an hr so I’ll post up some feedback later today.

Sounds like a good combo on the rear cog. 2.5 Ratio. Looking forward to your ride report.

 

[greeno]

Okay....
Went for our ride this morning and got 24.6 miles in.
Not alot of elevation but alot of up and down.
All single track, canyons, mesa and a little bit in the valley floor.
Longest climb might of been 1/4 mile and maybe 300' elevation gain.

And NO I dont use Strava.
I dont want anyone I dont know to know where I ride.
Not secret by any means but Im not advertising either.

My buddy really liked having the option of 14 gears to choose from but he also did make mention about only having a 203 rotor on the back instead of the 220 he was rocking before.
He said he could tell a noticeable difference. He said that the 203 was max diameter for that hub. I think he has a 203 on the front as well.

Most of the time he would find the correct gear for whatever section we were running and keep it there until the next area which might need a different cadence.

Hub was quiet as it should be, no sound when shifting as well.
He did mention that it wont let you shift under load so that might be a plus for longevity.
He did indeed have a 40t chainring in the front and a 16t cog in the rear.

Now for my impression when I rode it ...

To be fair even though we have the same frame, motor and controllers for the most part ( his 2200w, mine 1000w ) these bikes couldn't be more different.

He's got a Ohlinns DH dual crown fork in the front with like 200mm+ traveling has to use rubber stoppers on his frame to keep from damaging the stancions which is good in that sense BUT it severely limits your turning radius when navigating through tight areas of technical spots. He's got a Fox shock in the rear with 55mm of travel on the piston.

I have a Fox 160mmfactory on the front and a Rockshox 65mm travel stroke on the rear.

Both bike have a 29" front tire.

His is a fixed seat post and saddle I have a 120mm dropper which I use all the time.

His handlebars are higher and farther back than my set-up.

His bike also has f/b fenders, lights for riding at night, heavier overall than mine and feels stiffer IMO.

The ride....

For me the gearing wasn't conducive to my riding style.
Max speed in 14th gear was about the same as my bike.
#1 speed was comical and I would never have a need for it.
So using the mid range gears would be my bread and butter for the majority of my riding.

I'm running a 38t chainring in the front and an 11-46 on the rear and that works for me 100% of the time.

He can't go much bigger in the front he might be able to fit a 42t ring on there as he's got a 105BCD spider set-up.

more usage of the lower range of gearing.
Why have it if you don't use it.

I'm sure it's a learned thing but shifting required a pretty big twist to go from lo to high which you would probably never do but compared to just pulling or pushing the lever shifters I currently use I think what I have works better for me.

The install looks clean and you don't have to worry about banging your derailed on rocks or whatever obstacle your rollin over or around.

As I stated earlier my buddy tore off (3), count em, (3) detailers and blew up a couple of WI Alum free hubs so this should be a good alternative for him.

For me I'm standing pat but like I mentioned before my buddy is of the school that more is better.
And if that works for him or whoever thats fine these are just MY observations.

Hub added a bit of weight but not noticeable.

Here's a few pics.

The wheel build, and yes the Sculpin helps.

Terrible chainline as you can see.

Clean, clean, clean.

Rotating the gearbox parallel with the chain stay worked out good.
You can also see the temp spacers we used for the brake mount.
Note: Brake should be forward about a 1/2" if using the proper set-up but this is what Rohloff sent for the 203mm rotor which you can see is incorrect.
We made it work for now.

Here's the twist shifter and the dual cables that run inside the downtube an exit in back of the motor.
We ran both cables below the brake lever and it works well.

Full bike pic of his ride.

Here's my ride.

Good luck guys.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Okay....
Went for our ride this morning and got 24.6 miles in.
Not alot of elevation but alot of up and down.
All single track, canyons, mesa and a little bit in the valley floor.
Longest climb might of been 1/4 mile and maybe 300' elevation gain.

And NO I dont use Strava.
I dont want anyone I dont know to know where I ride.
Not secret by any means but Im not advertising either.

My buddy really liked having the option of 14 gears to choose from but he also did make mention about only having a 203 rotor on the back instead of the 220 he was rocking before.
He said he could tell a noticeable difference. He said that the 203 was max diameter for that hub. I think he has a 203 on the front as well.

Most of the time he would find the correct gear for whatever section we were running and keep it there until the next area which might need a different cadence.

Hub was quiet as it should be, no sound when shifting as well.
He did mention that it wont let you shift under load so that might be a plus for longevity.
He did indeed have a 40t chainring in the front and a 16t cog in the rear.

Now for my impression when I rode it ...

To be fair even though we have the same frame, motor and controllers for the most part ( his 2200w, mine 1000w ) these bikes couldn't be more different.

He's got a Ohlinns DH dual crown fork in the front with like 200mm+ traveling has to use rubber stoppers on his frame to keep from damaging the stancions which is good in that sense BUT it severely limits your turning radius when navigating through tight areas of technical spots. He's got a Fox shock in the rear with 55mm of travel on the piston.

I have a Fox 160mmfactory on the front and a Rockshox 65mm travel stroke on the rear.

Both bike have a 29" front tire.

His is a fixed seat post and saddle I have a 120mm dropper which I use all the time.

His handlebars are higher and farther back than my set-up.

His bike also has f/b fenders, lights for riding at night, heavier overall than mine and feels stiffer IMO.

The ride....

For me the gearing wasn't conducive to my riding style.
Max speed in 14th gear was about the same as my bike.
#1 speed was comical and I would never have a need for it.
So using the mid range gears would be my bread and butter for the majority of my riding.

I'm running a 38t chainring in the front and an 11-46 on the rear and that works for me 100% of the time.

He can't go much bigger in the front he might be able to fit a 42t ring on there as he's got a 105BCD spider set-up.

more usage of the lower range of gearing.
Why have it if you don't use it.

I'm sure it's a learned thing but shifting required a pretty big twist to go from lo to high which you would probably never do but compared to just pulling or pushing the lever shifters I currently use I think what I have works better for me.

The install looks clean and you don't have to worry about banging your derailed on rocks or whatever obstacle your rollin over or around.

As I stated earlier my buddy tore off (3), count em, (3) detailers and blew up a couple of WI Alum free hubs so this should be a good alternative for him.

For me I'm standing pat but like I mentioned before my buddy is of the school that more is better.
And if that works for him or whoever thats fine these are just MY observations.

Hub added a bit of weight but not noticeable.

Here's a few pics.
View attachment 154821

The wheel build, and yes the Sculpin helps.

View attachment 154822

Terrible chainline as you can see.

View attachment 154823

Clean, clean, clean.

View attachment 154824

Rotating the gearbox parallel with the chain stay worked out good.
You can also see the temp spacers we used for the brake mount.
Note: Brake should be forward about a 1/2" if using the proper set-up but this is what Rohloff sent for the 203mm rotor which you can see is incorrect.
We made it work for now.

View attachment 154825

Here's the twist shifter and the dual cables that run inside the downtube an exit in back of the motor.
We ran both cables below the brake lever and it works well.


View attachment 154826

Full bike pic of his ride.

View attachment 154827

Here's my ride.

Good luck guys.

Congrats, clean looking install. It will be interesting to hear your opinion in a few weeks. I too keep the shifter in about one-half to one-third of the gear range most of the time. Climbed a super steep hill today and it was ridiculously easy. My buddy tried climbing with his Sondors Rockstar Ultra 12-Speed. He lost it half way up the hill, and gave up. I cruised up, barely working, relaxed, cool as a cucumber. It's a climber

 

[Gionnirocket]

Nice work!
So on the gearing... How would you equate it to a cassette? 11-60t?
But seriously couldn't it be made more practical with a different chainring and/or rear sprocket?

 

[greeno]

Adjusting the front or rear gearing would absolutely change the way it currently performs.
For me….

This was only the 2nd trail ride for him and he’s digging it so far.
His bike, his opinion is the only one that matters.
Will he swap in some other changes maybe but for now he’ll get the whole process dialed in and then decide.

Yeah my quick 15 minute ride told me everything I needed to know for me not following his lead.

Maybe with the super low gearing he’s got now maybe he’ll go with the “Sport mode” and utilize the full 2200w he has availible.

And thanks to Tomas for starting this show and documenting his journey on his ride.
Thats what got my buddy to pull the pin and go full steam ahead.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

General guide for cog/chainring ratio.

1.9-2.3*: Mountain biking, fat biking, more heavily-loaded off-road touring
2.1-2.5*: Off-road bikepacking
2.4-2.6: On-road touring
2.5-2.75: On-road bike packing, commuting, gravel riding
2.75-3: Road, faster/more fit gravel rider
>3-3.4: Faster/more fit road rider
~from Cycle Monkey

 

[TPEHAK]

I use Kindernay VII with 3000W Innotrace X1 motor. So far so good. Kindernay VII offers significantly higher gear ratio than Rohloff or Kindernay XIV and you can go crazy fast on Kindernay VII if you have powerful enough motor to crank this bad boy at higher gears. My Innotrace lost juses at 40 mph but Kindernay VII still has some gears above it to go even faster if the motor would only have more power. Maybe with 3500W you can go 50 mph or so with Kindernay VII gearhub.

 

[Gionnirocket]

General guide for cog/chainring ratio.

1.9-2.3*: Mountain biking, fat biking, more heavily-loaded off-road touring
2.1-2.5*: Off-road bikepacking
2.4-2.6: On-road touring
2.5-2.75: On-road bike packing, commuting, gravel riding
2.75-3: Road, faster/more fit gravel rider
>3-3.4: Faster/more fit road rider
~from Cycle Monkey

Well it seems easy enough to switch to the proper ratio to make most if not all gears usable.
Tom... What would you equate your current setup to if it were cassette?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Well it seems easy enough to switch to the proper ratio to make most if not all gears usable.
Tom... What would you equate your current setup to if it were cassette?

Have not looked at that yet, bt there is a conversion table for just that on Rohloff web site. I'll take a look.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

And thanks to Tomas for starting this show and documenting his journey on his ride.
Thats what got my buddy to pull the pin and go full steam ahead.

Hey Greeno, how are you liking the Rohloff?

 

[greeno]

Hey Tomas my buddy is the one that has the Schizzle.
He loves it so far.
We added a shift cut-off because he was getting some internal noise on intermittent shifting.

He swore up and down to me that it wasn’t needed as the throttle shifter supposedly won’t let you shift under load or when pedaling.
He was probably trying to shift at the last minute thus causing the issue, or his fender was rubbing I don’t know.
He says it’s all fine now.

His only complaint is he can only run a 203mm rear rotor instead of the 220mm one he had previously.

I don’t think it’s in the cards for me as I’m fine using my 11-46 and 38t in the front with my KMC E11 chain and it handles everything fine.

Again thanks for the tutorial for your install.
You definitely paved the way for us to do the install on his ride.
Pretty common sense install ya just gotta understand what you read and fill in a couple of blanks as you go.
Hardest part was dropping the motor to run the shift cables as on these frames there pretty tight getting it all to fit without causing problems.
Take care amigo.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Hey Tomas my buddy is the one that has the Schizzle.
He loves it so far.
We added a shift cut-off because he was getting some internal noise on intermittent shifting.

He swore up and down to me that it wasn’t needed as the throttle shifter supposedly won’t let you shift under load or when pedaling.
He was probably trying to shift at the last minute thus causing the issue, or his fender was rubbing I don’t know.
He says it’s all fine now.

His only complaint is he can only run a 203mm rear rotor instead of the 220mm one he had previously.

I don’t think it’s in the cards for me as I’m fine using my 11-46 and 38t in the front with my KMC E11 chain and it handles everything fine.

Again thanks for the tutorial for your install.
You definitely paved the way for us to do the install on his ride.
Pretty common sense install ya just gotta understand what you read and fill in a couple of blanks as you go.
Hardest part was dropping the motor to run the shift cables as on these frames there pretty tight getting it all to fit without causing problems.
Take care amigo.

Thanks Bud,
glad I could be of help. I could not be happier with mine. It feels like I am "one with the transmission" now!