Avid cyclist looking to reduce ~40 mile round-trip commute time

[tbar23]

Hi everyone - I'm a new member and have been poking around the forums for a few days. Lots of great information here!
I have recently started to explore ebike options as I'm taking a new job with a fairly lousy commute. However, there is a reasonable bike route that is about 21 miles each way. I am hoping to cover that distance in under an hour. The ride is reasonably flat (by New England standards) - about 750 ft elevation one direction and ~925 ft in the other direction.
My previous (non-e) bike commute was 11.4 miles and would take 35 - 40 minutes depending on which bike I took and how much effort I wanted to expend.

I was looking at a Specialized Turbo Vado SL, but LBS owner got me thinking about a Creo SL + fenders + rack.
Now that I've been looking around here, I see many other options including Trek Domane+ and Allant+ as well as Motobecane and Juiced, etc. etc.

I know there are a few avid cyclists on EBR that have purchased ebikes with the express purpose of speeding up a long commute. I would love to hear your feedback - as well as inputs from anyone that would like to chime in.

Thank you!

 

[WattsUpDude]

Everybody's situation and tolerance is different but I think 21 miles each way is pretty lengthy unless it's totally flat. If I was making a purchase now, I'd take a good look at the Yamaha Civante. It's basically a Yamaha Urban Rush (which I have) but is capable of Class 3 speeds. I have a very hilly 26-28 mile round trip commute and I still make it home with 30-40% of battery capacity. It's not as sexy as the Creo but it'll give you more power and battery capacity for your long commute.

 

[tbar23]

Thanks to you both. @WattsUpDude - after reading a number of EBR threads, it does seem like getting more power and/or battery capacity than you think you might need is a good choice.

@Timpo - those both look very new and/or unavailable. Any reason you chose to recommend them?

 

[fooferdoggie]

time wise it would be tough the best I can do with very few stops and on a bike path I can average 19 mph with 25 miles a hour on the bike path and downhills even faster I do 9.5 miles in 30 mines at the best. but I am working at it. getting it done in a hour would mean keeping it above 20mph constantly.

 

[J.R.]

Hi everyone - I'm a new member and have been poking around the forums for a few days. Lots of great information here!
I have recently started to explore ebike options as I'm taking a new job with a fairly lousy commute. However, there is a reasonable bike route that is about 21 miles each way. I am hoping to cover that distance in under an hour. The ride is reasonably flat (by New England standards) - about 750 ft elevation one direction and ~925 ft in the other direction.
My previous (non-e) bike commute was 11.4 miles and would take 35 - 40 minutes depending on which bike I took and how much effort I wanted to expend.

I was looking at a Specialized Turbo Vado SL, but LBS owner got me thinking about a Creo SL + fenders + rack.
Now that I've been looking around here, I see many other options including Trek Domane+ and Allant+ as well as Motobecane and Juiced, etc. etc.

I know there are a few avid cyclists on EBR that have purchased ebikes with the express purpose of speeding up a long commute. I would love to hear your feedback - as well as inputs from anyone that would like to chime in.

Thank you!

Like you I was commuting by bike prior to getting an ebike. Weather, hills and distance were getting tougher, I needed help. My commute was 34 miles round trip. My last year without an ebike I did 1700 miles, mostly limited by Pennsylvania weather. I rode about 7 to 8 months. My first ebike year I rode 12 months and 6000+ miles.

You have to be weather and pain tolerant. I used carbide studded tires in winter and about 75% of my ride was flat rail trail. Biggest issue was the trail isn't paved and never plowed. Studded tires are a must for commuting in northeast winters.

I purchased a direct drive hub motor ebike. Not the best system for hill climbing, but the best for flat ground and good speed. And the most maintenance free drive system. The only moving parts are bearings. And I did have one big hill, 850 foot climb over 2 miles, so it will do hills, just not as fast as a geared mid drive or hub.

I don't generally make bike recommendations, but I think for your needs 'something like' a class 3, direct drive Stromer would fit the bill the best. Not an inexpensive bike though. They have several models.

You'll be racking up a lot of miles every year. After experience I think I would limit myself to 30 miles round trip. Cold, wet, snowy days you really have to push yourself. 40+ miles can be done. Think about all aspects before you buy, and test ride! The bike is just one component.

I no longer make that commute. I love having had the experience. Time to prep for the day, the ride in, your normal day, the ride home. Then the prep for the next day. Charging the bike, lights, cleaning, maintenance, drying rain/snow gear. Everything is a mess in winter from slush and salt. Makes a long day.

Good luck!

 

[tbar23]

@J.R. - I couldn't agree more. The bike is one aspect, but a lot goes into a daily (or near daily) bike commute routine.
Can you guys point me to some good mid-drive vs hub material?
I do like the idea of maintenance-free (or maintenance-light).
Is it this fact that pushes many commuters to bikes like the Juiced CCS/X? Hub-drive and big battery?

As a relatively small cyclist, I tend towards lighter bikes, but once the motor is added, perhaps I need to change my mental model!

 

[J.R.]

@J.R. - I couldn't agree more. The bike is one aspect, but a lot goes into a daily (or near daily) bike commute routine.
Can you guys point me to some good mid-drive vs hub material?
I do like the idea of maintenance-free (or maintenance-light).
Is it this fact that pushes many commuters to bikes like the Juiced CCS/X? Hub-drive and big battery?

As a relatively small cyclist, I tend towards lighter bikes, but once the motor is added, perhaps I need to change my mental model!

There are 3 types of ebike drives. Direct drive hub, geared hubs and mid drives that are internally geared as well. Essentially 3 types of sensors drive these systems. Cadence, torque and a hybrid of torque and cadence. As an experienced cyclist I don't think you'd be happy with cadence sensing. The other 2 you would likely feel more natural to you. You really should test ride all the systems. There's good and bad to all of them. For example a direct drive is fast, few moving parts, but heavy and not as much hill climbing torque. A mid drive will wear drive components faster, but has mountain goat torque. And a geared hub may not last as long as the other two, but has good torque and speed.

There's always a tradeoff. I like them all. I have preferences, which aren't important to you. When talking about riding 11k miles a year, it takes some serious thought, as most people aren't willing to buy a new ebike every year. There's a big difference between the way I use my pickup truck and the farmer next door. I can say how much I love my pickup and how well it hauls trailers and loads, but I have never had to depend on it to haul 5000 pound hay wagons a hundred times a year to pay the mortgage. You, @tbar23 are the farmer.

 

[rich c]

Maintenance free/maintenance light with 860 miles a month is asking a lot of just the bicycle parts. Every 3 months you'll be replacing the chains and maybe the brake pads even more often with the speeds you have to carry to meet your time restriction. Tires every year, and a new battery pack every 18 months, depending on size and if you charge at work and home.

 

[tbar23]

@rich c - yeah, I get that part. I also doubt I'll end up at 860 miles per month ... if I managed to do it 10 - 15x per month (400 - 600 miles per month), I'd be satisfied.
That said, I'm trying to avoid things like motor rebuilds or extended downtime due to service issues.

@J.R. - I figured I was the farmer

 

[vincent]

i think the regular titanium wattwagon is available now, guess it would depend on whether he has your size frame in
this is a belt drive bike with rohloff and that should be easier to maintain

 

[TheEqualiser]

@tbar23 - I don't know if it is an option for you but i have a similar situation and they way I resolve it is by going one way each day by e-bike and the other way by other means. Luckily for me I only work four days a week but I have a 37.5km (23.5 mile) commute each way, so I go to work on a Monday morning on the e-bike and come home by motorcycle, then I take the motorcycle back in on the Tuesday morning and ride home on the e-bike. I have Wednesday off and repeat the whole thing on Thursday/Friday. So far it doesn't feel like a chore at all and I actually look forward to the e-bike rides way more than battling traffic on my motorcycle rides. I'm aiming for 70 minuites for a one-way commute by e-bike. I haven't (quite) achieved it yet but I am kind of stuck with Australian e-bike rules (250W/15.5mph maximum).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@tbar23: Think of a fully-powered Vado 5.0. The SL e-bikes miss the power (and the battery charge) necessary for really fast commutes. To ride a Class 3 e-bike really fast and with no sweat you need to ride in Turbo Mode. FYI, the 600 Wh battery in my Vado 5.0 is good for 25 miles in Turbo mode (think of recharging the battery at work).

 

[6zfshdb]

Here are a few points I would consider:

The commute you mention almost certainly would require a class 3 e-bike with a 28 mph top speed.

You mention a "reasonable bike route". Is it a trail, bike path, a bicycle friendly road route or a mix? Most trails and paths have a speed limit considerably less than 20 mph. Exceeding that is neither legal or safe.

Massachusetts has some pretty flaky e-bike laws which you might want to review before making a purchase. The latest information provided by People For Bikes can be found here: https://wsd-pfb-sparkinfluence.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/05/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_MA_2020.pdf

 

[tbar23]

@Stefan Mikes - I'm not looking to be "no sweat". In fact, my primary motivation is to try to combine a rather lengthy commute with regular exercise to be more time efficient. That said, I am becoming more and more convinced that having extra power and extra battery is a good thing.

I will also say that the fact that the Specialized bikes output my actual power input (via ANT or BT or whichever) is an unreasonably large pro for me. I'm a data junky and love tracking my performance. Without that feature, it is much more difficult to estimate how much effort I'm providing vs the battery. I know this shouldn't be a deciding factor, but back to what @rich c said, everyone has their preferences.

@TheEqualiser - I am definitely considering that possibility. As well as other schemes such as M-W-F by bike, T-Th drive, etc.

@6zfshdb - agreed. Definitely class 3. "Reasonable bike route" = all roads, but by "reasonable" I mean that the roads either have relatively low speed limits or a wide shoulder or are relatively lightly traveled or some combination of all three. No trails or paths involved. Thanks for the MA e-bike handout link.

 

[Captain Slow]

As a Creo owner and reading your preferences I would strongly recommend a Creo. You can really motor along fast with a Creo. I'm guessing you're in the US so you'd get a class 3 with a 28 mph top speed. This would make your experience different than mine and it might mean you want to buy the battery extender, whereas for me the battery extender is less useful.

I find that with a 32 km/hr. top speed that any time I'm working hard and not on a steep hill that the motor cuts out because I'm above the 32 km/hr. speed limit. So this actually preserves my battery quite a lot. As you go faster it requires a lot more power and it's not a linear relationship so if you're cruising at say 25 mph or 40 km/hr. you might be using significant battery power where I'm not using any. Now the Creo with it's software will allow you to tune the motor so that if you want to hammer along at 25 mph but not use much battery that you can. You just have to ensure you have your phone with you and set up the correct profile.

One setting that I love is the HR Smart Control. I set up the Creo so the motor only comes on when my HR hits 135 bpm or higher. This way you get no assistance below that level and I believe the higher you are above 135 bpm the more motor assistance you get. I did this for a ride with friends on regular bikes and it was a day that they didn't feel like going very fast. The result was a 70 km ride where I only used 45 wh of battery, almost nothing for an ebike.

Based upon your need to go fast but also get a good workout, I believe the Creo is well suited to that. I'm sure there are other bikes that would do the same, but the Creo would definitely allow you to do that. I think the difference is the software allows a lot of control over the motor settings and assistance. A lot of bike will just have some pre-determined power levels and not give you the flexibility. Also being a more aero road bike position will help you go fast without burning a ton of battery. I have a Juiced CCS that I used for commuting before I bought the Creo and it is an upright position that catches a lot of wind. Once I get up to about 38 km/hr. or faster you can literally see the battery gauge dropping as you pedal hard and go faster.

 

[Captain Slow]

I just went back and re-read your original post and you need to average 21 mph or faster. That is pretty fast and I'm not 100% sure the Creo can do that. I think it could. Mine is limited to 32 km/hr, or 20 mph and I've done some hour long rides where I've average 29 km/hr. or close to the speed limit. Given you could buy a 28 mph bike there seems to be enough leeway to average 21 mph, but I guess it would depend upon your fitness, lights, etc ...... You might also need to recharge the bike at work and unless you have access to an outlet or can bring the bike inside that may not work because the battery is internal and can't easily be removed.

It might work if you ride with a fully charged battery to work with a range extender and set up the software to drain the range extender first. Then when you get to work you can bring the range extender inside with you and charge that.

 

[jodi2]

I have both "extremes" mentioned here, a Creo limited to 25km/h and a swiss Stromer (already a commuter with fenders, rack, lights, straight handle bar) with 2-3 times the power limited to 45km/h. If I have to go to work and back each day 2x21 more or less flat miles, I would clearly prefer the Stromer/the bike with the strong motor, which made me ride 2x22km almost each working day over years. 21mp/h average is no problem, but you do less "workout".
The Creo (same with Fazua bikes) is great for free time with more sport/workout. You work a lot more even of the average speed is much lower than with a more powerful bike.
For every day use on the same route 2x21 miles I would not use the Creo very long. For 1-2, maximum 3 times a week to work or in the free time it's great, especially with many uphills.

 

[Ebiker01]

Trek Domane+

+HP, is the best of all the options right now. OR BMC AMP ONE . But you better lock them inside your office

 

[FlatSix911]

@Stefan Mikes - I'm not looking to be "no sweat". In fact, my primary motivation is to try to combine a rather lengthy commute with regular exercise to be more time efficient. That said, I am becoming more and more convinced that having extra power and extra battery is a good thing.

I will also say that the fact that the Specialized bikes output my actual power input (via ANT or BT or whichever) is an unreasonably large pro for me. I'm a data junky and love tracking my performance. Without that feature, it is much more difficult to estimate how much effort I'm providing vs the battery. I know this shouldn't be a deciding factor, but back to what @rich c said, everyone has their preferences.

@TheEqualiser - I am definitely considering that possibility. As well as other schemes such as M-W-F by bike, T-Th drive, etc.

@6zfshdb - agreed. Definitely class 3. "Reasonable bike route" = all roads, but by "reasonable" I mean that the roads either have relatively low speed limits or a wide shoulder or are relatively lightly traveled or some combination of all three. No trails or paths involved. Thanks for the MA e-bike handout link.

Take a look at the EBR review of the Best Class 3 electric bikes of 2020.

Best Electric Bikes | ElectricBikeReview.com

Looking for the best electric bike for your lifestyle and budget? As of today, we have reviewed 1224 electric bicycles. EBR conducts the industry’s most complete and objective reviews. Reviewing electric bikes is all we do. Since 2012, we have helped millions of people find and choose the best...

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[tbar23]

Staring down the barrel of a $7k + tax purchase (Domane+ HP 7 vs Creo SL Comp Carbon), I decided that I owed it to myself to try a few more bikes. In this case, more typical “commuter” bikes. I had the chance to test ride:

1. Bulls Iconic Evo TR1
2. Specialized Turbo Vado SL EQ (not sure which one)
3. Bulls Urban Evo

#1 with Bosch Performance Speed Line (Gen 4)
#2 with Specialized SL1.1
#3 with Bosch Performance Line (Gen 2, I think)

I left the shop feeling, very, very torn. As much as I like the Domane+ HP - an awesome bike with an awesome motor - the price tag and intended use are causing doubts for me. I have two very nice, very high end un-assisted road bikes already.
Regarding the three options above, #2 was not even in the running. Similar to my Domane+ vs. Creo SL comparison above, the SL1.1 just can’t match the output of the Bosch motor, and I want to go fast.
Interestingly enough, my butt-o-meter thought the Iconic was faster, but my data indicated otherwise. I was consistently faster with the Urban Evo, and I really don’t need the full-suspension or price tag associated with the Iconic.
I also learned that Bulls is releasing an updated Urban Evo in the coming weeks with a Gen 4 motor and bigger 625Wh pack ... at $4199 retail.
As much as I liked the Domane, I can’t say that I liked it $3000 more.

I apologize for the less detailed write-up on these, but I’m short on time. At present, I’m leaning towards the latest Bulls Urban Evo. I could easily maintain 25+ mph despite the upright position. I liked the comfort of the front shock and beefy tires. It comes with lights, rack, fenders and saves me a bunch.
I’m not crazy about the Purion display / controller, but there are solutions to that problem.

Thanks for the great resources on this forum. You have all been very helpful with many diverse (and equally valid) opinions! I’ll let y’all know when I pull the trigger!