Foxhound68
Active Member
- Region
- Canada
What thread did he post in?
Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)
- Thread starter scrambler
- Start date
Fast n' Furious
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego
Take your pick. Type in 'BarnBoy' as poster in 'search forums'.
Alright, here is the update on the situation with the Innotrace. Innotrace is willing to unlock the X1 Tool program completely but can not do this and is looking for someone who can help them. I guess they will provide necessary files and information to someone who can do something with it if it will help to unlock the tool. Maybe evixone can help them with it or maybe other users from this forum can assist Innotrace to unlock the X1 Tool completely.
Now about my underpowered controller. They said the reason my controller has fuzzy serial number and motor number in the X1 Tool is because of they installed old firmware on the controller and the X1 Tool can not read (or assign?) the numbers to the controller without connecting to the server or without registering a user on the server. (As I understand if X1 Tool reads the serial number and the motor number of your controller without issues you already registered your controller when the server worked?).
Now the server they used to register the users is down as you know. And Innotrace team has no control on it and this is another part of the story.
I believe somebody already posted it here. Krasnodar is the person who developed the Innotrace controller or managed the development of this controller. But something happened in the Innotrace team so Krasnodar does not work for Innotrace anymore and he shut the server down and does not provide to the Innotrace team the information necessary to recover the server work. The Innotrace team at the moment is trying to resolve the server issue using legal action against Krasnodar and willing to hack the X1 Tool as an alternative solution. But they do not have a programmer, they do not have a firmware/software engineer or a hacker, maybe they also do not have or can not find the source code of the X1 tool utility and the Innotrace X1 firmware instructions because of Krasnodar is the only one who knows about it and does not share the information with the Innotrace team after he left the company.
It looks like Krastodar still has an access to corporative emails assigned to the "[email protected]" and "[email protected]" company emails where I emailed with my questions about my underpowered motor controller because of he responded me back. I hope Krastodar is really able and willing to help me with the controller issue because of it looks like he is the one who can do this for sure and at this point I am not sure if Innotrace team is capable to resolve it the easy way.
But, here is a good question - the Innotrace team somehow flashed the controller with old firmware but how do they set it to the necessary power buyers select (3000W in my case) ? And how they ended up delivering 5A controller instead of 60A controller? Maybe they can set the power of the motor just flashing the controller firmware using different tools (not X1 Tool) and flashed the wrong version with 5A power to my controller? I hope they will help me to understand how it works and will be able to fix my controller.
Last edited:
I think I have an idea how to work around the X1 Tool software and setup any motor to any power between 0 and 100A and then fine tune it with the bypassed X1 tool.
First of all someone (maybe Innotrace) needs to find a motor with the maximum power. If evixone is looking for 100A power he needs to find a motor flashed with 100A power firmware. Maybe he can can instruct Innotrace to find it because of they may have such unit.
Then once the motor with maximum power is found they can dump the 100A unit firmware from the flash memory chip (which is probably easier than trying to hack the X1 Tool and the memory chips manufacturers provide instructions how to read and flash the memory on their chips). Once the firmware of the 100A unit in dumped it can be flashed to any unit. They may need to make a custom jig or connector to connect the memory chip on the controller board to the flashing device, or maybe solder some wires on the controller board to make it easy to connect the flashing device. But again it is likely easier than hacking the X1 Tool software and better than doing nothing and dumping their business.
You do not need to know software programming languages or software hacking methods, you do not need even to know how the firmware works, all you need to do is just copy and paste the existing memory content from the most powerful unit they have following the memory chip manual from the chip manufacturer using a flashing device
Now once the 100A firmware is flashed to the new unit memory the unit can be connected to the bypassed X1 Tool with the regular programming dongle and detuned to the lower power they want using the basic settings we have access to with the bypassed X1 tool.
First of all someone (maybe Innotrace) needs to find a motor with the maximum power. If evixone is looking for 100A power he needs to find a motor flashed with 100A power firmware. Maybe he can can instruct Innotrace to find it because of they may have such unit.
Then once the motor with maximum power is found they can dump the 100A unit firmware from the flash memory chip (which is probably easier than trying to hack the X1 Tool and the memory chips manufacturers provide instructions how to read and flash the memory on their chips). Once the firmware of the 100A unit in dumped it can be flashed to any unit. They may need to make a custom jig or connector to connect the memory chip on the controller board to the flashing device, or maybe solder some wires on the controller board to make it easy to connect the flashing device. But again it is likely easier than hacking the X1 Tool software and better than doing nothing and dumping their business.
You do not need to know software programming languages or software hacking methods, you do not need even to know how the firmware works, all you need to do is just copy and paste the existing memory content from the most powerful unit they have following the memory chip manual from the chip manufacturer using a flashing device
Now once the 100A firmware is flashed to the new unit memory the unit can be connected to the bypassed X1 Tool with the regular programming dongle and detuned to the lower power they want using the basic settings we have access to with the bypassed X1 tool.
Last edited:
Fast n' Furious
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego
Why? For whom? How is this unfortunate for you?
A washed out bridge appears SNAFU at the front lines. Invested owners are contributing to fix it and great progress has been made.
Regardless Chicken Little observations, exuberance, experience and momentum's behind us.
Whatever happened (to the server) was serious. I'm just glad we don't have the Zombie brigade moaning for Puskar's brains.
Most fortunately we have options, dialogue and cooperation - not to mention EU member's on innotrace's end sharing it.
I'm 100% optimistic.
Foxhound68
Active Member
- Region
- Canada
Maybe not unfortunate cause it actually ended up with people who never had cords or access with cords and access. But it definitely is a mess
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
While I am happy to see workaround being found, if the maker of a controller sold on many ebikes and the only one of its kind to provide such performance on the Ultra has lost access to the software that makes the controller work is not a mess, I dont know what is...
But I do hope they find a way to settle things with the developer, recover from the situation, and put better IP retention procedure in place in the future.
Alright, more action is coming. Innotrace informed, that the Innotrace (Archon) controller firmware is probably based on the open-source VESC project motor firmware Krasnodar probably used. I am not sure how it will affect us the users of the Innorace X1 motor, but I hope this is the way they want to work around the X1 Tool software or maybe it will help to bring the X1 Tool registration server back in working order. Maybe Krasnodar will have to help them to bring it back to avoid legal consequences or something?
github.com
Maybe someone smart here can use that information to unlock the Innotrace X1 controller?
They also closed all sales on their website. Is this something we have to start worry about?
GitHub - vedderb/bldc: The VESC motor control firmware
The VESC motor control firmware. Contribute to vedderb/bldc development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
Maybe someone smart here can use that information to unlock the Innotrace X1 controller?
They also closed all sales on their website. Is this something we have to start worry about?
Last edited:
Here are some more details regarding my 5A controller. They said if the controller is not activated through the server with X1 Tool it is in "safe mode" limited to 5A amperage (which is what I have). As I understand they did not know about it before and that why they sold the motors and the controllers before while the X1 Tool server was turned off and it looks like they figured it out only after complaints from users (I do not know if I am the only one who complained) and finding the bypassed X1 Tool.
Regarding dumping the controller board memory chip from an activated controller - they doubt it will work and believe the memory chip has some sort of protection from unauthorized memory dumping and copying (to protect from copying by competitors) and can have easy access to only through the X1 Tool and the server so they believe hacking the X1 Tool utility is going to be the easier way.
Regarding dumping the controller board memory chip from an activated controller - they doubt it will work and believe the memory chip has some sort of protection from unauthorized memory dumping and copying (to protect from copying by competitors) and can have easy access to only through the X1 Tool and the server so they believe hacking the X1 Tool utility is going to be the easier way.
Last edited:
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
If they lost the ability to maintain and develop the controller software I would say yes....
rcm_rx7
New Member
- Region
- USA
So just confirming that Innotrace has a different programming tool for the extra tab that unlocks 100A, or is it an option that needs to be unlocked/cracked in the program we already have? I'm wondering if we can find a developer on Fiverr or something that has the skills to unlock this software.
As I understand they do not have different unlocked X1 Tool because of they did not offer such solution for me and they want to hack the X1 Tool completely. They said they flashed my motor with old firmware but I do not know what they used to flash it and it looks like flashing the motor with firmware still requires activation with X1 Tool to make it work properly (to have the necessary power) and this is what they can not do because of Krasnodar turned the server off and does not provide the information to recover the server work.
Yes, it looks like we need to turn the X1 Tool utility in advanced mode (to have the extra tabs) to be able to manipulate the maximum power (in my case to lift the 5A to 60A)
evixone
New Member
- Region
- Europe
it is the same program that displays an additional tab when the login master is used, it is the remote server that sends the command to the program.
The problem is that without the sources of the program it is impossible to modify it, I spent nights searching and I only managed to make the bypass thanks to a flaw in the design of the program.
But the function that allows the display of this famous "master" tab is implemented deeper in the code that is unreadable without its sources.
Even asking a developer on fiver he couldn't do magic.
The only solution would be either to find the sources, or to make a new program by reverse engineering.
rcm_rx7
New Member
- Region
- USA
Got it, I didn't realize how much work you put into that, I really appreciate it! Looks like our only option now is to bribe Krasnodar...
Fast n' Furious
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego
That sounds workable.
I'm 52v 2300watts and have no doubt the bikes burning that in SP modes.
My sense is WW found 3000watts was too much for the drivetrain, motor.
It's sold on two company's eBikes.
There's something more to this story.
How did WW know - innotrace's X1 server ' might be down until June/ July 2023' - 18 months ago ???
This sounds like litigation - a prospective settlement.
The cost for the subscription services, an asset and liability were taken in.
If one partner quit, the value of rights could be an issue. Filings online show Krasnodar making a 50% investment founding the company.
That's certainly a mess.
Yes, the cords are a big deal. But I sum the benefits differently. It frees WW owners (me) from a leash.
Archon-x1-programming-thread-questions-and-experiences, as it relates to WW owners who's bikes came preprogrammed (In October 2021, I paid my initial fee/ 2300watts/ three-year tuning subscription, etc.) now have solutions and a community to assist for a service WW's disabled from providing. Information/ solutions/ verification, this forum's a positive, productive record of international can-do types stepping up.
But again, I agree that Innotrace is a mess.
Last edited:
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Well, this may have taken a turn for the worse… VESC Tool is GNU GPL3 licensed open source, which could certainly put Krasnodar and/or Innotrace in some legal hot water, as creating a derivative non-open-source work is completely disallowed under the GPL, while they are required to make source available if using any GPL code.
At this point, I’m wondering who did the hardware design, or if it too is a VESC-based controller or based on a VESC reference design..?
If X1Tool is indeed VESC-based, it’s possible someone in the VESC community, or perhaps the VESC author/lead (Vedder) could be persuaded, although I’d expect him to charge Innotrace if so. There could wind up a surprise silver lining if VESCTool were ported to the Innotrace controller - desktop and mobile apps, etc.
At this point, I’m wondering who did the hardware design, or if it too is a VESC-based controller or based on a VESC reference design..?
If X1Tool is indeed VESC-based, it’s possible someone in the VESC community, or perhaps the VESC author/lead (Vedder) could be persuaded, although I’d expect him to charge Innotrace if so. There could wind up a surprise silver lining if VESCTool were ported to the Innotrace controller - desktop and mobile apps, etc.
hi riders,
I am krasnodar from Innotrace. I am sorry that our internal company problems caused a lot of problems for our customers. this should not be the way how internal problems are handled.
in addition I was discredited and some things were reported by our company staff that are not true.
since a while Innotrace sold motors and controllers with controller hardware that was not subject to my quality control and software/firmware unknown to me. if you notice any problems with your motor/controller, please do not hesitate to contact me. our server had to be taken offline due to unauthorized access - making x1tool useless. work is still in progress to bring the server back online as soon as possible. up to this point of time I will be available here for any questions you may have.
please note that hacking x1tool software could lead to unforeseeable consequences, damages and loss of any support. also possibility of any firmware updates and further upcoming exciting features is not available with hacked software.
krasnodar
I am krasnodar from Innotrace. I am sorry that our internal company problems caused a lot of problems for our customers. this should not be the way how internal problems are handled.
in addition I was discredited and some things were reported by our company staff that are not true.
since a while Innotrace sold motors and controllers with controller hardware that was not subject to my quality control and software/firmware unknown to me. if you notice any problems with your motor/controller, please do not hesitate to contact me. our server had to be taken offline due to unauthorized access - making x1tool useless. work is still in progress to bring the server back online as soon as possible. up to this point of time I will be available here for any questions you may have.
please note that hacking x1tool software could lead to unforeseeable consequences, damages and loss of any support. also possibility of any firmware updates and further upcoming exciting features is not available with hacked software.
krasnodar
