Apples to Apples? Bosch vs. Bafang Ultra

[McCorby]

Fair enough, which Ultra powered bike did you ride ?

A friend of a friends Rambo. I believe it was a Rampage.

Edit: I texted my friend and he confirmed it’s a Rampage.

 

[ElevenAD]

Not true. My Ultra is dead quiet and smooth as can be. I rode a Bosch the other day and besides being weak sauce , it was quite noisy . So much opining here on bikes people haven't ridden.

i have ridden an Ultra, i own one,and its not smooth and dead quite, its loud, buzzy and fast. you may have an older Ultra with nylon gears?

 

[McCorby]

my Ultra is far from quiet or smooth. its loud.

I agree, the one I tried was noticeably louder than my Shimano E8000, which is known to not be the quietest.

 

[ElevenAD]

I'd say the difference isn't so much the bike - its you. Are you an Apple or are you an Orange.

When I first rode a 250w (legal limit in UK) bike I wasn't very impressed with it, especially for the price, it felt underpowered and the 15.5mph limit just killed all the excitement. For me, the minimum I really want is 1000w (unrestricted). Some people here buy a bike and then spend the entire time in ECO mode, telling you about the distances they covered... but to me this complete defies the point of having the extra power. I want to know how far it goes on MAX power, not Eco mode.

I just want something fundamentally different to many other riders here... I don't ride for hours on end doing tours/sightseeing... I want a quick blast at speed, mostly off-road, for a thrill and adrenaline hit Its horses for courses.

Anyways, I'd say go to a bike shop and try it... You might settle for a little less power if you really like the bike in other ways. Its always a compromise.

even in ECO mode The Ultra is still a beast, i have hit 30mph in ECO with the bike loaded down with at least 250lbs! i have other bikes for other stuff but when i want speed, power and fun the Ultra delivers!

 

[ElevenAD]

I’ve ridden both, and to me the “big 4” have much more refined riding characteristics and are typically much lighter.

I think this is why the major “premium” bike manufacturers don’t use them at this time. Some will argue that they don’t due to European regulations regarding power output, but they could always de-tune them if it was worth the effort. For example, Orbea has done this with the new Shimano EP-8 motor for one of their new emtbs.

Court reviews a tuned down Ultra powered bike, The Biktrix Ultra FS he reviews has been tuned down to legal limits, strip away an Ultra's insane power and whats left? very good honest review!

 

[McCorby]

Court reviews a tuned down Ultra powered bike, The Biktrix Ultra FS he reviews has been tuned down to legal limits, strip away an Ultra's insane power and whats left? very good honest review!

Thanks, I’ll have to check out his review!
What is left then? Does the de-tuning address the jerkiness and inconsistency in power delivery when you start and stop pedaling?

 

[TForan]

i have ridden an Ultra, i own one,and its not smooth and dead quite, its loud, buzzy and fast. you may have an older Ultra with nylon gears?

Then it has to be the nylon gears and Roshan's proprietary tuning.

 

[scout592]

Thanks, I’ll have to check out his review!
What is left then? Does the de-tuning address the jerkiness and inconsistency in power delivery when you start and stop pedaling?

McCorby, you may want to look into the controller that Watt Wagon uses, the ARCHON X. It gets rave reviews for adressing the jerkiness you mention of the Ultra.

 

[McCorby]

No thank you. I’m more than happy with my E8000. No modifications or added cost necessary right out of the box!

 

[ElevenAD]

Thanks, I’ll have to check out his review!
What is left then? Does the de-tuning address the jerkiness and inconsistency in power delivery when you start and stop pedaling?

im not sure, but Court didnt mention these issues so i think the reduction in power may have made them less obvious? im sure its not easy to make a 1500watt motor run as smooth as a 500watt and still keep cost under control. its just something that happens with powerful motors, no one would expect a Hellcat to be as smooth as a Camry but yet this is expected from this Power House of a motor? i agree with @MartsEbike 100% Apples to Oranges!

 

[McCorby]

im not sure, but Court didnt mention these issues so i think the reduction in power may have made them less obvious? im sure its not easy to make a 1500watt motor run as smooth as a 500watt and still keep cost under control. its just something that happens with powerful motors, no one would expect a Hellcat to be as smooth as a Camry but yet this is expected from this Power House of a motor? i agree with @MartsEbike 100% Apples to Oranges!

No arguments here. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[Akrotiri]

Not true. My Ultra is dead quiet and smooth as can be. I rode a Bosch the other day and besides being weak sauce , it was quite noisy . So much opining here on bikes people haven't ridden.

My first ebike was a bafang and it was no where near as organic feeling and responsive as my current gen 4 Bosch speed.

Also the torque sensing on the Bosch is perfect whereas the bafang always has a slight delay and has a whiplash effect most of the time.

Noise from the Bosch is intentional since electric vehicles have to emit a noise to alert pedestrians just like all electric automobiles are legally obligated to do since 2019.

TheEU,Japan,Australia,Brazil,USA,Switzerland, Canada all require it. Bafang doesn’t care about laws, safety, IP, etc; so they don’t mind if it makes the legally required pedestrian avoidance noise or not.

 

[TForan]

My first ebike was a bafang and it was no where near as organic feeling and responsive as my current gen 4 Bosch speed.

Also the torque sensing on the Bosch is perfect whereas the bafang always has a slight delay and has a whiplash effect most of the time.

Noise from the Bosch is intentional since electric vehicles have to emit a noise to alert pedestrians just like all electric automobiles are legally obligated to do since 2019.

TheEU,Japan,Australia,Brazil,USA,Switzerland, Canada all require it. Bafang doesn’t care about laws, safety, IP, etc; so they don’t mind if it makes the legally required pedestrian avoidance noise or not.

Was yours an Ultra ? Of course not. I truly doubt the whirring was designed to alert people. I'm happy for you that you can accept a loud slow motor. I can't.

 

[Akrotiri]

Was yours an Ultra ? Of course not. I truly doubt the whirring was designed to alert people. I happy for you that you accept a loud slow motor.

Who cares if it was an ultra , its a bafang. No one in this thread is talking about only one Bosch motor so why only talk about one bafang. In any case all bafangs are China made garbage.

 

[TForan]

Who cares if it was an ultra , its a bafang. No one in this thread is talking about only one Bosch motor so why only talk about one bafang. In any case all bafangs are China made garbage.

Because there is difference in their line ? Some of the best bikes on here, for example ,Wattswagon use "Chinese made garbage" Bafang. Why is that ? Are they scammers ?

 

[McCorby]

Because there is difference in their line ? Some of the best bikes on here, for example ,Wattswagon use "Chinese made garbage" Bafang. Why is that ? Are they scammers ?

I’m guessing because they are a “cheaper” option and much easier to acquire.....

 

[TForan]

I’m guessing because they are a “cheaper” option and much easier to acquire.....

No, it's because they put out big power, no one can match because of regs.

 

[McCorby]

No, it's because they put out big power, no one can match because of regs.

I apologize. I guess you’re the expert on this subject.

 

[McCorby]

No, it's because they put out big power, no one can match because of regs.

Just one observation/question..... If they are the best thing since sliced bread, why don’t the premium bike manufacturers just de-rate them via software/firmware to meet regs? It should be pretty simple to do If it was worth it......I would think.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Who cares if it was an ultra , its a bafang. No one in this thread is talking about only one Bosch motor so why only talk about one bafang. In any case all bafangs are China made garbage.

Actually the subject line specifically mentions the Ultra.
If you weren't so busy patting yourself on the back you might pick up on the details