Apples to Apples? Bosch vs. Bafang Ultra

[TForan]

Just one observation/question..... If they are the best thing since sliced bread, why don’t the premium bike manufacturers just de-rate them via software/firmware to meet regs? It should be pretty simple to do If it was worth it......I would think.

Because they are designed for 750-1000 watts , not 250. And the big four probably are better suited for euro reg power.

 

[TForan]

I apologize. I guess you’re the expert on this subject.

Certainly not and neither are you. I have ridden several of the big four powered bikes . I prefer 1500 watts of the Ultra. On my fourth year with it.

 

[McCorby]

Because they are designed for 750-1000 watts , not 250. And the big four probably are better suited for euro reg power.

Still doesn’t explain why they dont do it, because they definitely could. So their only advantage then is lots-ahh power, thus making it not worth bike manufacturers to de-rate them to meet Regs?

 

[TForan]

Still doesn’t explain why they dont do it, because they definitely could. So their only advantage then is lots-ahh power, thus making it not worth bike manufacturers to de-rate them to meet Regs?

That's a whole different discussion. I'm sure there are many factors involved. Ride one with nylon gears and Roshan's proprietary tuning and then you would have a better grasp on the subject. It's quiet as can be, smooth and powerful. Suits me perfectly.

 

[McCorby]

That's a whole different discussion. I'm sure there are many factors involved. Ride one with nylon gears and Roshan's proprietary tuning and then you would have a better grasp on the subject. It's quiet as can be, smooth and powerful. Suits me perfectly.

Actually, I’ve ridden an Ultra powered bike as well as all of the big four. I have no idea if it had nylon gears, but it sure was pretty loud. Are nylon gears an option, upgrade, or what? I’m quite sure it didn’t have Roshan’s magic tuning pixie dust applied to it. It’s really too bad that Bafang can’t supply a motor like your proprietary tuned example right out of the box. Don’t you think? From what I’ve read on this forum, it appears that is the responsibility of the customer, bike manufacturer and/or aftermarket. Maybe that’s one of the reasons more bike manufacturers don’t use them.

 

[TForan]

Actually, I’ve ridden an Ultra powered bike as well as all of the big four. I have no idea if it had nylon gears, but it sure was pretty loud. Are nylon gears an option, upgrade, or what? I’m quite sure it didn’t have Roshan’s magic tuning pixie dust applied to it. It’s really too bad that Bafang can’t supply a motor like your proprietary tuned example right out of the box. Don’t you think? From what I’ve read on this forum, it appears that is the responsibility of the customer, bike manufacturer and/or aftermarket.

I have one of first ones made and they had nylon gears. No reason to get sarcastic about Roshan's tuning. The man knows what he's doing. I'm done.

 

[McCorby]

I have one of first ones made and they had nylon gears. No reason to get sarcastic about Roshan's tuning. The man knows what he's doing. I'm done.

Wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. I have no doubt Roshan knows what he’s doing. Same goes for WattsWagon in what they have accomplished. It’s too bad Bafang hasn’t been able to figure it out.

 

[Johnny]

The difference between your Bafang and a mid drive like bosch is that bafang ultra will climb the same hill much faster. Otherwise both will climb easily given a wide enough cassette.
For Bafang it seems you may need a controller like WW's X1 to reach/exceed the efficiency and smoothness of mainstream mid drives.

Why do well known bicycle companies use mainstream mid drives? The likely reason is that it is convenient. They just slap it on their bike like any other component and if something goes wrong they just send the motor to the manufacturer.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Why do well known bicycle companies use mainstream mid drives? The likely reason is that it is convenient. They just slap it on their bike like any other component and if something goes wrong they just send the motor to the manufacturer.

Not. It is because of:

1. Most of Bafang motors are illegal in the world's most profitable e-bike market, which is Europe
2. Leading e-bike manufacturers order motors from world leading motor makers, that is, companies that can be trusted, and on which they can base their future.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Not.
1. It's because there's a huge market for those that like to pay big for bragging rights and labels

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not.
1. It's because there's a huge market for those that like to pay big for bragging rights and labels

I just want to make you aware, my ignored "friend", that there are 10 times as many e-bikes in Europe as are in whole North America. If America wants to be "the home of Bafang", let her be.

 

[TForan]

One last comment, is it even possible to tune the big four ? People mod the Bafang because they can like any hot rodder will do.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I just want to make you aware, my ignored "friend", that there are 10 times as many e-bikes in Europe as are in whole North America. If America wants to be "the home of Bafang", let her be.

@Stefan Mikes. . . why do you hurt me?

And please understand that I have no loyalty to Bafang... or issue with the major brands for that matter other than the fact that they are a bit over priced as an emerging market here. Then in general you can add that labels here often carry too much weight with the "look at me" generation.
Like I've mentioned before it's more the attitude of the so called privileged owners that never bypass an opportunity and often go out of their way to state how perfect their world is and how unfortunate the rest of are for not doing as they have.
I'm thinking in the near future as ebikes become more mainstream here that the prices will come more in line with actual value.
To sum it up I think if some just spoke of thier bikes pro's and cons other than my way is better than yours... I'd have much less to say.
Much love my friend & Merry Christmas

 

[Johnny]

Not. It is because of:

1. Most of Bafang motors are illegal in the world's most profitable e-bike market, which is Europe
2. Leading e-bike manufacturers order motors from world leading motor makers, that is, companies that can be trusted, and on which they can base their future.

Stefan I am sorry but you are biased on this topic.

They can customize and make the motor legal.

Leading ebike manufacturers honestly are not really making ebikes, they are mostly just making frames. I really am not impressed when a so called big company not touching or customizing the major component of an ebike which is the motor. Giant and Specialized have some effort to customize their offerings but even that is a bit too little. When they can make a lot of money by just slapping a mainstream mid drive and not dealing with the warranty/repairs , they simply don't bother bringing something better to the market themselves.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Leading ebike manufacturers honestly are not really making ebikes, they are mostly just making frames.

What the Chinese companies just stamping frames and selling same e-bikes to U.S. under plethora of "brand names" actually do, Johnny? Oh, yes, there's a lot of design involved with the leading manufacturers creating their nicely integrated e-bikes, co-operating with motor companies to improve the motor design/tuning (Specialized/Brose, Giant/Yamaha for instance). These industry leaders provide custom, well designed and safe batteries (while Bosch delivers their own batteries/displays/controllers in addition to motors -- and Shimano might do the same - not sure about the latter -- batteries, displays, controllers as well as mobile device apps are designed and produced by e-bike makers).

In what sense is Bafang better? Because of a lot of power? If "they customize and make the motor legal" then Bafang would loose their only edge: the power.

 

[TForan]

In what sense is Bafang better? Because of a lot of power?

Yes

 

[McCorby]

One last comment, is it even possible to tune the big four ? People mod the Bafang because they can like any hot rodder will do.

Yes, many have tuning apps.

Shimano’s eTube app:

 

[McCorby]

Not. It is because of:

1. Most of Bafang motors are illegal in the world's most profitable e-bike market, which is Europe
2. Leading e-bike manufacturers order motors from world leading motor makers, that is, companies that can be trusted, and on which they can base their future.

Are the Bafangs that produce more than 750 Watts technically legal to operate on public bike paths and trails in the US? If not, are they being sold under the guise that they are intended for private land use only?

 

[TForan]

Yes, many have tuning apps.

Shimano’s eTube app:

View attachment 75177

Maximum torque 27Nm ? Ha! Don't let that get away from you !

 

[McCorby]

@Stefan Mikes. . . why do you hurt me?

And please understand that I have no loyalty to Bafang... or issue with the major brands for that matter other than the fact that they are a bit over priced as an emerging market here. Then in general you can add that labels here often carry too much weight with the "look at me" generation.
Like I've mentioned before it's more the attitude of the so called privileged owners that never bypass an opportunity and often go out of their way to state how perfect their world is and how unfortunate the rest of are for not doing as they have.
I'm thinking in the near future as ebikes become more mainstream here that the prices will come more in line with actual value.
To sum it up I think if some just spoke of thier bikes pro's and cons other than my way is better than yours... I'd have much less to say.
Much love my friend & Merry Christmas

I would argue Bafang owners do the exact same thing......just say’n