Any interest in committing to pre-launch price for a limited run hard tail superbike ? Round One Pricing added- through April 11th.

[BashCram]

So, I had a juiced bike with down tube that took a battery like options 3-5. the power connection is at the top corner. Two separate batteries over just months of commuting would jiggle around and the power started to arc, melting the plastic.

having had that experience with those batteries I’d like a more reliable design where the power connectors are in a more stable position.

I dont know how to judge that from the pictures, but I do like the aesthetics of #1 & 2, plus it looks
like they have more internal cable routing.

 

[smorgasbord]

Most are 14-15ah on the down-tube. Note - the fit/ finish / routing etc will take time. I wanted to share the downtube options first. Bike design will be on the private forum.

With the secondary battery will be ~17ah, bringing the total up to to 52V * (14 + 17)ah =1600wh on board with dual batteries.

So the secondary battery will be larger than the primary battery? What will that look like?
And you'll have this capability on the small frame size?

Impressive. For comparison I'm thinking of the M1 Spitzing, which has a 1050 wh battery in its large downtube.

 

[TomD]

I'd also like to see custom decals (e.g. with the owner's name or handle) as an option too.

Engraved dog tag ala the matchless logo on this bike?

I'd also be happy with a clear-coated bare metal finish. I have three bikes and they're all black. This time arround I'd like a different color.

How about all chrome, with sylish spare in chrome? I'd ditch the leather though...

 

[webcurl]

1 or 2 would be my preference.
With an Aluminium or other tough cover with seals (or not) that can click on/off, lock in/out.
Don't know what battery packs you are talking about but i assume they use 18650 cells (65x18mm) and i know they've been around a long time and probably a long time to come.
But for future compatibility is it worth thinking about a battery pack made of 21700 cells (70x20mm) or some other future format and how they would be arranged in a future pack (horizontal/vertical), make some extra room in the frame tube for this extra width/height.
And for now with 18650 packs this extra space could be used as a small slim compartment for tools/gps anti-theft devices/pump, etc.
Future proofness? Just an idea that not everyone would like

 

[webcurl]

So, I had a juiced bike with down tube that took a battery like options 3-5. the power connection is at the top corner. Two separate batteries over just months of commuting would jiggle around and the power started to arc, melting the plastic.
having had that experience with those batteries I’d like a more reliable design where the power connectors are in a more stable position.

Bosch does a very good job to avoid this with their Powertubes. But of course they are too expensive, overly proprietary and can't be used.

 

[Johnny]

Option 1,2 would be my choice. 3,4 are used widely on the lower end models and some of them seem to suffer from disconnections due to vibration.

With 1,2 you can also use the platform on the front tube for an additional second battery.

Also I would go for battery connectors with wide/tall pins. Yamaha and Bosch has them and they seem to be robust connections against vibrations.

 

[onlineaddy]

Any of the truly integrated battery designs (1/2/6) is fine with me. The others don’t present a premium esthetic.

 

[onlineaddy]

I second the 21700-cell recommendation.

 

[17Stratton]

I like 1 or 2 because it allows spare battery to be mounted on top, and if weather proofed properly might offer superior protection from the elements. I don't consider 3, 4 or 5 to be integrated. While integrated, 6 does not allow spare mounting.

I agree with tomdav, 3, 4, 5 not fully integrated. Would like Stromer level integration.

 

[Edrummer]

Is there an option 7 which includes the titan battery? I say this because hopefully 5 years from now Wattwagons will be my go to vendor!
Also have you considered the second battery to be a slide in to the rear rack ala Pedego. I’ve seen these style carriers, 52volt and 31amp hours. The Titan and this would total 52 ah. That’s over 2500 watt hours. so my thought process is when biking: On the trails , throw in titan battery and be on my way, or if I’m going on an all day cruise, slide in the 31ah into the rear rack, along with the Titan, and I’m good for a 150 mile adventure!

 

[pushkar]

Is there an option 7 which includes the titan battery? I say this because hopefully 5 years from now Wattwagons will be my go to vendor!
Also have you considered the second battery to be a slide in to the rear rack ala Pedego. I’ve seen these style carriers, 52volt and 31amp hours. The Titan and this would total 52 ah. That’s over 2500 watt hours. so my thought process is when biking: On the trails , throw in titan battery and be on my way, or if I’m going on an all day cruise, slide in the 31ah into the rear rack, along with the Titan, and I’m good for a 150 mile adventure!

1. I have a downtube design that will do 1100wh like option 1. Issue is that it will be proprietary design and I’m not comfortable with that trade off.

2. For the dual battery, you can choose a rear rack slider battery with nearly 25-30aH capacity, couple it with the downtube one. No problem. The dual battery connectors just need another same voltage battery and location doesn’t matter. It’s just a longer battery cable

Will that work ?

 

[opimax]

1 or 2 for me, may be carrying a 3rd battery in pannier too. , prefer no battery mounted to rear rack,

 

[pushkar]

So the secondary battery will be larger than the primary battery? What will that look like?
And you'll have this capability on the small frame size?

We can do this for up to medium. Realistically size small will have to have either a smaller pack (13.5ah) or convert to mixte (step through) and have the 17ah add on pack.

 

[Edrummer]

OK, I get it that you are trying to keep the primary battery concealed.
So what you are saying is that the Titan pack is totally out of the running for this special build?
How about partially concealed, thus allowing for The Titan to be used.
The rear rack, large amp hour battery will work for those long cruiser like trips.

 

[pushkar]

OK, I get it that you are trying to keep the primary battery concealed.
So what you are saying is that the Titan pack is totally out of the running for this special build?
How about partially concealed, thus allowing for The Titan to be used.
The rear rack, large amp hour battery will work for those long cruiser like trips.

The titan battery mount is the same for titan or for a jumbo shark. For size Large/ xl there should be plenty clearance for Titan.

I dont know if we will have clearance for Titan for size M and S.

 

[Edrummer]

Pulling power from 2 packs at the same time would be less stress on the batteries and also increase their overall life. I don’t think I’d want a bunch of batteries bouncing around in panniers.

 

[pushkar]

Overall for batteries, there is a good tradeoff.

1. Dual batteries with a standard mount gives us a lot of capacity upfront. Will reduce stress, and increase overall service life.
2. Carrying batteries in panniers /rack / front rack are also ok. Location differs but to my knowledge its personal preference.
3. We need a better pannier if we want to carry batteries - there is a design I came across which has wire mesh , and can take a lot of heavy cargo. If the pricing is not too much of an issue, I will try to include it in the founders series. Front rack has a base so dont need anythign super strong there.

 

[opimax]

I have carried 3 Stromer batteries (LARGE! )per ride since ST1, I go through Ortleib bags faster than if I didn’t , price of riding with lots range and power. Ready to 100+ miles at highest level any time I can which wasn’t too often , recently retired, hoping it becomes the norm.

Strong racks are a must!

 

[17Stratton]

Overall for batteries, there is a good tradeoff.

1. Dual batteries with a standard mount gives us a lot of capacity upfront. Will reduce stress, and increase overall service life.
2. Carrying batteries in panniers /rack / front rack are also ok. Location differs but to my knowledge its personal preference.
3. We need a better pannier if we want to carry batteries - there is a design I came across which has wire mesh , and can take a lot of heavy cargo. If the pricing is not too much of an issue, I will try to include it in the founders series. Front rack has a base so dont need anythign super strong there.

One thing to keep in mind is the integrated battery is a selling point of the bike for many (otherwise can just do commuter pro with dual batteries if don't care about integration). I would rather have a proprietary battery with 1100wh than having to hang non-integrated batteries off the rack, in the pannier, etc. I would need at least 1100wh for my base case commute, especially if this motor is pulling 2300 watts continuous.

 

[Edrummer]

In my opinion, proprietary batteries are a bad idea. I have personal experience with this. I bought a $4000 dollar bike one year ago. A variant of my bike was reviewed on EBR. The battery just died. Their is not a single battery in the entire world, as per infinite google searches, that is available to purchase as of today.
I have a warranty claim that hopefully the US distributer will honor. But my confidence level in not be able to rapidly purchase a spare or remedy my predicament left me with a pit in my stomach.