8+ months of research, 100s of hours, know what I need & want but can't find it

[AvalancheRun]

I spent too many hours last night struggling with a decision regarding whether or not to wait for the bike shop in Syracuse to get in all the Gazelles they ordered. But I think one last serendipitous circumstance has pushed me to a decision, ( there you have it guys, who have been singing the piss or get off the pot tune ) the fact that the Vado 4.0 in small is available only to consumers ordering directly for the unbelievable price of $2,750. So what am I going to do you may ask? Well, now I'm just trying to decide whether to go with that depressing black or 'flag-waving'-to-the Bulls-they-call -Troopers around here red. Right now I'm thinking about my last bike crash, in June last year, on my red Honda Helix 250 which left me with nine broken ribs. Maybe I'll just get that boring black and paint zebra stripes on it.

IMO, the overall features of the Vado 4.0 are comparable to the class 3 Gazelle T+ Ultimate. Vado has a wider tire which I think is better for comfort, and a quieter motor. Overall the Gazelles are a slightly different flavor of the same concept.

Compared to a self-built bike this is designed from the ground up as an e-bike and the high forces they can put on components. It carries a warranty, and has a proven track record from owners and reviewers. The software integration is fantastic. For the price it’s a no-brainer so long as you tested and verified that it works for you.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

this old guy was the middrive he apparently used all the 22 spds to"spin"

You do not use all the possible gear combinations on a 2x drivetrain as a possibly straight chain line has to be kept. So it is either the small chainring for low gears or the big chainring for high gears. Moreover, some middle combinations there are redundant.

Now, your man was actively using his gearing to be in the high cadence. Nothing wrong. I would even say that was commendable.

See the race start. The first riders wanted to be in the high gear from the beginning, so some of them were "mashing" pedals, pedalling out-of-saddle. The two last men were us, e-bikers. Both of us started in a low gear at a high cadence, and we were upshifting as we were gaining the speed. (E-bikes are heavy beasts!)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not nice! Shame on you. No one is going to insult an entire cultural group on my thread! Go sit in the corner for a time-out.

Don't waste your time on -- and do not feed -- a well known Forum troll

For anyone interested, the results of the 416 km/258 mi gravel race are:

Six Poles and four Lithuanians. My man is marked with the arrow. The man in the 5th place has recently won a Berlin - Warsaw gravel race (650 km) upwind in 27 hours and 12 minutes. Apparently, Mr. Czetyrko must have been tired a bit after that ultramarathon

 

[BurroBabe]

Meanwhile, Shimano seems to have updated their technology. I still can buy spare parts for my M7000-11 but of course Shimano is pushing the newer technology
My drivetrain is based on the Shimano CS-M7000-11 cassette in the 11-46T variant and a long cage Deore XT SGS derailleur.

Shimano makes you believe you need a Deore XT M8130 11-speed drivetrain with the Clamp Band Shifter Lever. This new drivetrain is based on the new Linkglide technology. If your LBS thinks it is a good way to go, go on with that! (It will give you a wide range 11-50T cassette).

I am for practical and more economical older solutions, such as the Deore M5100, which gives you a 11-51T 11-speed gearing, is inexpensive but reliable.

• Shimano Deore RD-M5100 11-speed derailleur, Shadow RD+ clutch. It is as large as it fits the 51T largest cassette cog
• Shimano Deore CS-M5100 11-speed cassette, 11-51T
• Shifter: Shimano Deore SL-M5100, right hand side, 11-speed, clamp mounted (no I-Spec)
• A 11-speed chain of a proper length, the best by Shimano or KMC
• (Possibly a new Jagwire shifter cable unless the existing one could be re-used).

The main difference is the M5100 is a way cheaper in maintenance than the XT8130-11 is.
----------
You might keep your 48T chainring though. The benefit of the stock chainrings used on Vados is the holes in them are threaded, which allows for a simple installing, and the chainguard is provided. If you do not want to stain your legs, keeping the chainguard on the original chainring is a good idea
Note: the 48-51T gearing is the same as my 44-46T! Keep the chainring and chainguard! It takes many thousand of miles to wear a large chainring!


I am not sure if the Specialized Home Delivery (via the LBS) is offered in your area. I like your way of thinking anyway!


I hahahah do but my car is just a piece of junk so we are in the identical position!


Hahaha! I need to see a photo of your Vado when you get it Good luck!

View attachment 176200
I could make the very same climb on my Vado in TURBO and 44-46T gearing myself on last Saturday! (Photo credits: Szymon Gruchalski Cycling).

Meanwhile, Shimano seems to have updated their technology. I still can buy spare parts for my M7000-11 but of course Shimano is pushing the newer technology
My drivetrain is based on the Shimano CS-M7000-11 cassette in the 11-46T variant and a long cage Deore XT SGS derailleur.

Shimano makes you believe you need a Deore XT M8130 11-speed drivetrain with the Clamp Band Shifter Lever. This new drivetrain is based on the new Linkglide technology. If your LBS thinks it is a good way to go, go on with that! (It will give you a wide range 11-50T cassette).

I am for practical and more economical older solutions, such as the Deore M5100, which gives you a 11-51T 11-speed gearing, is inexpensive but reliable.

• Shimano Deore RD-M5100 11-speed derailleur, Shadow RD+ clutch. It is as large as it fits the 51T largest cassette cog
• Shimano Deore CS-M5100 11-speed cassette, 11-51T
• Shifter: Shimano Deore SL-M5100, right hand side, 11-speed, clamp mounted (no I-Spec)
• A 11-speed chain of a proper length, the best by Shimano or KMC
• (Possibly a new Jagwire shifter cable unless the existing one could be re-used).

The main difference is the M5100 is a way cheaper in maintenance than the XT8130-11 is.
----------
You might keep your 48T chainring though. The benefit of the stock chainrings used on Vados is the holes in them are threaded, which allows for a simple installing, and the chainguard is provided. If you do not want to stain your legs, keeping the chainguard on the original chainring is a good idea
Note: the 48-51T gearing is the same as my 44-46T! Keep the chainring and chainguard! It takes many thousand of miles to wear a large chainring!

I ordered the Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 on Sunday, left a message for the LBS owner on Monday to call me regarding components and didn't get a call back yet. I just called and the bike already arrived at his shop! I gave him your list of the M5100 group and he ordered them as we spoke. One piece is coming from Nevada so probably won't get there until Monday but he's going to build the bike and get it all ready before then. Said it will only take a few minutes to add the component. I am so stoked! I'll have wheels when my CSA starts up. I'll clean up that child trailer that's been waiting in the barn and launder the one pannier from the pair that I found (the one I used in grad school, wonder if my ex took the other one. . . ). Gotta start asking my artist friends who is going to help me with the custom paint job.

BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME BY SHARING THEIR EXPERTISE AND STORIES AND EXPRESSING THEIR OPINIONS! You all really helped me make a decision I am happy with!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I ordered the Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 on Sunday, left a message for the LBS owner on Monday to call me regarding components and didn't get a call back yet. I just called and the bike already arrived at his shop! I gave him your list of the M5100 group and he ordered them as we spoke. One piece is coming from Nevada so probably won't get there until Monday but he's going to build the bike and get it all ready before then. Said it will only take a few minutes to add the component. I am so stoked! I'll have wheels when my CSA starts up. I'll clean up that child trailer that's been waiting in the barn and launder the one pannier from the pair that I found (the one I used in grad school, wonder if my ex took the other one. . . ). Gotta start asking my artist friends who is going to help me with the custom paint job.

BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME BY SHARING THEIR EXPERTISE AND STORIES AND EXPRESSING THEIR OPINIONS! You all really helped me make a decision I am happy with!

I'm happy you will enjoy your Vado rides soon!

 

[BurroBabe]

I saw "crashed a Helix 250"! What and how? I've crashed 2 myself but both times were my fault. I've been on the hunt for a Helix so for long I'm about to give up. Either they have silly miles or super low miles, means they've sat for awhile.

I wish I had sold it before I put it back on the road. I hadn't ridden in 4 1/2 years because of my arthritic hands but last June I drove my Prius off the road to avoid a collision about to happen between a pickup truck and a tractor pulling a round baler. With no shoulder I drove down an embankment (in control) but it ripped up the undercarriage and one side so the car was totaled. I needed transportation just to look for another car so I put the Helix back on the road. Coming down my country two-lane road I was leaning into a blind curve, in the middle of my lane, when a giant dump truck carrying rock came around more than halfway into my lane. I had to come out of the lean and wound up on the gravel-strewn shoulder in the curve. I didn't want to lay it down on the gravel by leaning so I slowly was making my way back to the blacktop when I clipped a stealth mailbox (looked like it was on a wood post but it was obviously fake plastic wood over a steel T-bar set in cement), which threw me and the bike sideways into the road. Popped a hole in the motor case where the oil fill bolt was and smashed 8 ribs on my left side and 1 rib on my right. It took me a few minutes to get up off my face and start walking to my friends house nearby. I never got the bike back.

 

[Taylor57]

I wish I had sold it before I put it back on the road. I hadn't ridden in 4 1/2 years because of my arthritic hands but last June I drove my Prius off the road to avoid a collision about to happen between a pickup truck and a tractor pulling a round baler. With no shoulder I drove down an embankment (in control) but it ripped up the undercarriage and one side so the car was totaled. I needed transportation just to look for another car so I put the Helix back on the road. Coming down my country two-lane road I was leaning into a blind curve, in the middle of my lane, when a giant dump truck carrying rock came around more than halfway into my lane. I had to come out of the lean and wound up on the gravel-strewn shoulder in the curve. I didn't want to lay it down on the gravel by leaning so I slowly was making my way back to the blacktop when I clipped a stealth mailbox (looked like it was on a wood post but it was obviously fake plastic wood over a steel T-bar set in cement), which threw me and the bike sideways into the road. Popped a hole in the motor case where the oil fill bolt was and smashed 8 ribs on my left side and 1 rib on my right. It took me a few minutes to get up off my face and start walking to my friends house nearby. I never got the bike back.

View attachment 176408

Looks like half a golf cart!

 

[sc00ter]

That Helix crash sounded terrible! I love those scooters so much. I bought a Qlink Commuter Helix clone for my wife. Qlink/CFMoto make the "highest quality" products in all of China. That clone lasted 2 years and only had 5000 miles on it when we donated it to a thrift store. Nothing but problems with it. We put 10,000 a year easy on my SYM CityCom. My wife put 15,000 a year on her Honda Silverwing scooter. I put 8000 a year on my current scooter, a Genuine Buddy 125.

Glad you survived your Helix crash. Broken ribs hurt so bad!

 

[BurroBabe]

That Helix crash sounded terrible! I love those scooters so much. I bought a Qlink Commuter Helix clone for my wife. Qlink/CFMoto make the "highest quality" products in all of China. That clone lasted 2 years and only had 5000 miles on it when we donated it to a thrift store. Nothing but problems with it. We put 10,000 a year easy on my SYM CityCom. My wife put 15,000 a year on her Honda Silverwing scooter. I put 8000 a year on my current scooter, a Genuine Buddy 125.

Glad you survived your Helix crash. Broken ribs hurt so bad!

Thanks sc00ter. I wouldn't have survived if I hadn't been wearing full motorcycle gear. My brains would've been all over the road. Some of my friends think I'll be in more danger on an ebike but I don't think so!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Some of my friends think I'll be in more danger on an ebike but I don't think so!

It is a way easier to stop an e-bike, especially if the person riding it is lightweight and the e-bike is not overly heavy (Always wear a helmet!)

Well, I and my Vado and the heavy pannier made together almost 300 pounds on the race. One of the segments was a steep gravel descent ending in a hairpin turn that continued with yet another very steep climb. You had to make that turn to have a Virtual Control Point crossed (no shortcut allowed even if that was available!) As I saw a high quality gravel road steep descent in front of me, I stood on the pedals and moved my butt far behind the saddle to move the centre of gravity towards the rear wheel. Then I let my Vado run!

I guess that was the downill ride where I achieved the max speed of 58.5 km/h (36 mph). However, I saw it necessary to almost totally stop the e-bike in front of the turn. I delicately worked on brake levers to "feel" the bike, then applied intermittent braking to slow the machine down, and eventually I smoothly pulled both brake levers all way back taking care not to fly over the bars I was totally confident Vado would stop in time, and she indeed stopped It made me totally confident my e-bike handled perfectly!

I used to ride in high mountains before but that was the first time I achieved a high speed on gravel and had to do hard braking!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@BurroBabe: What is the status of your Vado? Is Kansas still holding the missing part?

 

[BurroBabe]

@BurroBabe: What is the status of your Vado? Is Kansas still holding the missing part?

I actually don't know. I'm waiting to hear from the shop but I haven't called him because I'm still trying to figure out how to get there to pick it up, other than hitchhiking.

 

[EmilyRides]

@BurroBabe, I just noticed this thread today and found your quandry interesting because I've been posting on another thread, also looking for a small e-bike. Our needs are very different; I'm looking for a lightweight road e-bike to keep up with my speedy husband on recreational rides of up to 50 miles or so. But our challenges in being petite and having arthritis in the hands (mine is in my thumb joints where they attach to my wrist, so thumb shifters are unfriendly for me) are similar. My cycling inseam is 28", and most/all of the actualy e-road or e-gravel bikes have standover numbers higher than that, so I truly felt your pain in this thread! I currently ride a Kona Dew-e DL (size Small), which is a great e-bike and, has adequate standover and fits me well, but I want drop bars and a Class 3 for that speed you experienced when you test rode the Vado, since Class 1 is not cutting it at times when I ride with my husband. Anyway, I am honing in on a couple of (very limited) choices, and the experts on this forum have been super helpful, as they have been for you.

I haven't made a final decision myself, but I wanted to congratulate you on your choice and am looking forward to a photo when you get your Vado! I will follow this thread.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I actually don't know. I'm waiting to hear from the shop but I haven't called him because I'm still trying to figure out how to get there to pick it up, other than hitchhiking.

That would certainly be the best if he could deliver the e-bike to you...

 

[BurroBabe]

That would certainly be the best if he could deliver the e-bike to you...

After I read this last night I called the LBS at 7AM and got the owner in the shop and asked him if the bike was ready. He said he had been alone in the shop all week so was building it tonight. When I asked about delivering it he said he wouldn't be able to for at least a week because he was only closed on Tuesday and, since his dad had died this past winter he was going "down" to visit his mom and help her with the house on his day off since she's alone now. What could I say? I told him he is a good son. I really appreciate when my son comes down and helps me here as well.

So, I'm still sucking around to get a ride to the shop. I've checked all the bus routes. . . I think everyone here understands how much public transit sucks in the US. In one direction, the bus from NYC to the upstate towns is discontinued until further notice, the local rural route from the nearest town (6 mi or 12 mi away) have been cut back severely and the only bus I can get from the bigger town to Ithaca is a commuter that leaves at 6:15AM and the local route to get to it doesn't start until after 9. I'm contemplating just riding a regular bike down to the main road, leaving it at the fire station and hitchhiking. (sigh).

Since this forum is international, I'll take a chance on saying, the US sucks when it comes to environmentally sound transportation options.Since becoming car-less, I've really learned how few of my "friends" are really friends. When I did have a car, it was always on me to drive to where they live. I'm "too far out of the way" for them to bother coming here, even when I had 9 broken ribs or a torn rotator cuff.

At least my donkey loves me.

 

[sc00ter]

You should just sign up for Uber and Lyft apps. My friend doesn't have a running car at the moment and that's what he does when needed. He can also borrow my spare car if needed but his pride is strong. Concerning the friends being "friends" I know all to well what you mean.

And you mentioned the bike shop owner had the death in the family. I worked part time helping a small specialty shop get off the ground. I swear the owners mom died at least 3 times a year, and is still dying to this day! That was his excuse for falling behind "Tell them my mom passed and I'm outta town for a week!" would be whispered as I was talking to a client. I had a "Mom death cheat sheet" I kept I'm my desk so I wouldn't tell the same person the same lie twice. I did enjoy that job, except killing his mom all the time. The mom was actually in the shop one day when I had to lie for the owner! Luckily the phone cord stretched just outta ear shot for her to hear me!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

After I read this last night I called the LBS at 7AM and got the owner in the shop and asked him if the bike was ready. He said he had been alone in the shop all week so was building it tonight. When I asked about delivering it he said he wouldn't be able to for at least a week because he was only closed on Tuesday and, since his dad had died this past winter he was going "down" to visit his mom and help her with the house on his day off since she's alone now. What could I say? I told him he is a good son. I really appreciate when my son comes down and helps me here as well.

So, I'm still sucking around to get a ride to the shop. I've checked all the bus routes. . . I think everyone here understands how much public transit sucks in the US. In one direction, the bus from NYC to the upstate towns is discontinued until further notice, the local rural route from the nearest town (6 mi or 12 mi away) have been cut back severely and the only bus I can get from the bigger town to Ithaca is a commuter that leaves at 6:15AM and the local route to get to it doesn't start until after 9. I'm contemplating just riding a regular bike down to the main road, leaving it at the fire station and hitchhiking. (sigh).

Since this forum is international, I'll take a chance on saying, the US sucks when it comes to environmentally sound transportation options.Since becoming car-less, I've really learned how few of my "friends" are really friends. When I did have a car, it was always on me to drive to where they live. I'm "too far out of the way" for them to bother coming here, even when I had 9 broken ribs or a torn rotator cuff.

At least my donkey loves me.

You even cannot imagine how much I am sympathizing with you!

 

[Gionnirocket]

I say ride the mule to the LBS and let him take an Uber back home.

 

[EmilyRides]

Y'all, there are many rural areas in the US where Uber and Lyft services aren't offered. Someday, maybe, this kind of service will be everywhere, but I completely sympathize with @BurroBabe when she laments the state of transportation in the US. If you live in an urban area or the burbs, your options are many. But get out beyond the sidewalks, and the options dwindle quickly. Yep, I live in an area like this as well!

 

[Gionnirocket]

Y'all, there are many rural areas in the US where Uber and Lyft services aren't offered. Someday, maybe, this kind of service will be everywhere, but I completely sympathize with @BurroBabe when she laments the state of transportation in the US. If you live in an urban area or the burbs, your options are many. But get out beyond the sidewalks, and the options dwindle quickly. Yep, I live in an area like this as well!

So are we suggesting regular routes in areas that wouldn't have enough ridership to come anywhere near paying for itself? How would that affect your taxes? The environment?
It's not the US's fault that it's large and some prefer to live on the outskirts. When you make that decision, you also make the decision to be somewhat self sufficient.