6'5" 220 looking for a bike that will take me up hill on throttle only

[Johnitahoe]

I believe torque is the key to getting me up the hill on throttle only.

I want to be able to ride on the roads in California so something that still meets the regulations for an ebike.

Would like to be able to do 20 mph up a reasonable grade so I can keep up with traffic.

Tire preference would be 29" not much wider than 2".

Seems wider tires make it tough to navigate around obstacles.

Thanks,
John

 

[gromike]

The following advice is from someone how builds their own ebikes. Store bought bikes are not my expertise.
Get an emoto, otherwise a BBSHD mid-drive fits the bill on a multi gear bike. I have had very good luck with a BBS02, legal as in labeled 750 watts, though fed up to twice that in watts. IIRC, 20 mph on a moderate hill on throttle is doable on that bike. I'm 180lbs. That bike has 38mm 29'rs on it.

 

[rcdanner]

Throttle only is possible on a relatively short hill with a bafang 500w or more mid drive. Look at the FLX (Superhuman) bikes. Sorry but at 250lbs, it's asking alot. But it really depends on the hill. Some of those California Coastal Range hills are over 4000 ft of climbing. No way throttle will take you up.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Why not get a motorcycle or scooter?

 

[mrgold35]

I have a rear hub 750w/80nm rear hub Radrover and 1000w/160nm mid-drive Himiway Cobra Pro and ride sometimes in the 6000-7200 ft foothills of the Sandia mountains in NM. Waaaaay too much stress on the rear hub plastic gears or chain/gears with the mid-drive for throttle only on inclines with significant grades. I usually downshift to a lower gear to keep my pedal speed around 50-65 rpms. I'm fine with my speed at 5-10 mph if it keeps me from damaging the ebike.

Mid drives usually can have more tq and I would factor in chain/gear replacement cost in your search if you are going to use throttle only 20 mph up hills regularly.

 

[Chargeride]

750w fathub, 20 inch wheels, the gearing will get you up anything trucks can.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

You might want to check out this motor simulator tool. There are a few tutorial videos on how to use it. I’m still learning how to use it.

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...

ebikes.ca

Maybe consider a dual motor ebike?

 

[Johnitahoe]

Why not get a motorcycle or scooter?

All of the E-Motorcycles seem quite short and small for my size. Perhaps the Surron Storm, but I'd have to find a motorcycle that is street legal. Even the zero bikes have only at best a 34" seat height. My inseam is 38". So an e-bike seems easier to adjust for my size/height using custom stems/seat posts.

 

[rcdanner]

I don't think ANY ebike is going to take you up the hill at 20mph on throttle only. Unless it's a very short little hill. Best to start looking at another alternative.

 

[Bubba zanetti]

You should look at Biktrix.

Ebikes Online: Fast Shipping Electric Bikes Designed in Canada

Buy USA's #1 Ultimate Electric Bikes Online ✔ Custom Built ✔ Free Shipping ✔ Lifetime Warranty ✔ Direct Support. Start Zooming Around with Biktrix Today!

biktrix.com

 

[spokewrench]

I don't think ANY ebike is going to take you up the hill at 20mph on throttle only. Unless it's a very short little hill. Best to start looking at another alternative.

On a 60 pound bike, his gross weight would be 1273 N. 20 mph is 8.9 m/s. So it would take 11.38 kW to ride straight up a wall at 20 mph.

Suppose his bike puts 750 mechanical watts on the wheel. 750 / 11.38k = 0.066. So 750 watts on the wheel would take him up a 6.6% grade at 20 mph. (Actually, without a tail wind, air drag would require significant power at that speed.)

I was quickly disappointed with my Radrunner because it wouldn't take me up a similar hill at anything like 20 mph. It was supposed to be 750 watts. The 16 amp controller provided 750 electrical watts, but the motor produced only 500. With a 35 amp controller, the same bike would quickly reach 20 mph on that grade and had no trouble with steeper ones.

I found another bike underpowered with its OE 11 amp controller. I put on a 25 amp controller. I haven't tried to top it out on that hill, but it easily reaches the high teens. That's where air drag starts getting big.

 

[Chargeride]

Youre right into magnet and phase connector cooking territory.
Smaller wheel, lower gear will let you run 35 amps without overheating and power you up most hills throttle only
Obviously you can dual motor.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Youre right into magnet and phase connector cooking territory.
Smaller wheel, lower gear will let you run 35 amps without overheating and power you up most hills throttle only
Obviously you can dual motor.

Far from a legal e-bike but maybe a solution for the OP — provided he can (a) get a license, registration, and insurance for it, AND (b) keep it off bike infrastructure and public trails.

This electric motorcycle has no more business in a bike lane or on an MUP than a gas-powered motorcycle. Just look at the way the video guy rides it in these protected settings.

 

[spokewrench]

Youre right into magnet and phase connector cooking territory.
Smaller wheel, lower gear will let you run 35 amps without overheating and power you up most hills throttle only

I hadn't thought about connectors. Both aftermarket controllers were KT. I assumed the connectors would handle the current and that the matching motor connectors on the bikes had the same rating.

I was concerned about overheating magnets. After climbing a hill, I'd stop and put a finger on the motor. I'd also check the flat black paint with an IR thermometer. The motor never seemed to be more than a degree or so above ambient.

I can imagine three reasons heating has been a problem for some but not for me. I've had 3 e-bikes with direct drive hub motors that were massive compared to the geared hub motor on my first bike. I believe early adopters wanted the lightest motors possible. A motor that was 60% lighter would heat up 2.5 times faster. To make the copper 60% lighter, you might go down 4 gauge numbers. A given current would produce 2.5 times more watts of heat, so now it would heat 6 times faster than the heavier motor and presumably come to equilibrium with a heat rise 2.5 times higher.

If the consumer will accept a heavier motor, more poles can give him all the torque he wants without the noise or reliability issue of gears. Direct drives are supposed to be more resistant to overheating. Maybe it's just a matter of more mass.

I remember now that I did test the bike with the 25 amp controller on the hill. It got up to 18 mph, which would be 700 watts. I forgot to include air drag, which was probably about 200 watts, depending on possible air movement. Even that controller will get a heavy rider into the 20 mph range on a fairly steep hill.

 

[Chargeride]

Far from a legal e-bike but maybe a solution for the OP — provided he can (a) get a license, registration, and insurance for it, AND (b) keep it off bike infrastructure and public trails.

This electric motorcycle has no more business in a bike lane or on an MUP than a gas-powered motorcycle. Just look at the way the video guy rides it in these protected settings.

The fact that he has so many followers and casually rips around the beach, Venice? ,without any concern, sort of sums up the chances of being caught

 

[mschwett]

as others have noted, you won't find a street legal e-bike that will go up a decent grade at 20mph. for reference, it takes 1500w of mechanical power to push 300lb up a 10% grade at 20mph. 10% is really pretty steep, but 1500w at the wheel means 1900w of battery power... and that 400w lost goes straight to heat. basically you're riding around with a little space heater, and at 20mph you'll dust a big battery in maybe 30 minutes, for a range of 10 miles.

a more reasonable target might be 15mph up a 5% grade, which only takes 600 watts of mechanical power, would fit within the 750w peak power in california, and of course you could go 20 if it wasn't as steep.

 

[Chargeride]

I dont think we are being of much use except to say no legal bike can throttle only up steep hills at 20mph with that weight, even a midrive.
There are plenty of really cheap non legal bikes that can achieve that.

Its open to interpretation as to wether a 2000W fed 'legal' motor doing 20mph is likely to be targetted, ignoring the obvious issues with overcooking.

 

[Johnitahoe]

I'm wondering if the Wired Freedom would meet my needs. 1500 Watts 153 Newton Meters of Torque

From a legal perspective I believe it could be registered with California DMV as a Moped/Motorized bike less than 149cc requiring no insurance.

It appears 149cc is around 7hp.

With 1hp somewhat equal to 745 watts.

So 745 x 7 = 5215 watts.

It seems if I keep the power below 5215 watts I could register it and use it on the roads in California where it is not otherwise restricted (Restricted on freeways/interstate).

Thoughts?

 

[BlackHand]

Ymmv. People used to register Surrons and the like as mopeds in CA, but seems like the dmv mostly stopped accepting them.

The one you mentioned is not nearly as powerful as a Surron but still advertises a max speed of 35+ and peak power over 3200w. Cali law limits mopeds to max 30mph speed and 4 gross hp (3000w), so technically it would only be legal on private property or OHV use.

 

[spokewrench]

CC doesn't equate to hp. It's for internal combustion engines. California has a motorized bicycle category that could apply. The limitation is 30 mph.

I've read that in America, 750 watts means 750 watts output, on a dynamometer. I tested my Abound on a 6.1% hill and it accelerated to 17.6 mph, which would be 750 watts climbing and 180 watts air drag. On a dynamometer, that would be 930 watts, or 24% over the limit. It seems Aventon knows this is acceptable.

This is the steepest hill in town, where a driver with a manual transmission would shift down. I weigh 255 and my Abound 95. Your gross weight would probably be much less. Depending on where you ride, a legal e-bike might do fine.

For years I wanted a class 3 e-bike because I thought 28 mph would be safer on a street with 35 mph traffic. I never got one, but with a 35 amp controller, I could scoot up to 24. It was my fastest, most powerful e-bike, but I chose to give it away. Experience had taught me that I didn't need that speed and climbing power.