Does my ideal bike exist already?

[PedalUma]

Bikepacking bikes are strong to hold loads, have bosses for front and rear racks, and have a wide range of gears. When the front load is mounted low on the fork it is not too bad.

 

[m@Robertson]

Or perhaps time to start asking about racks that accommodate a child seat AND panniers, and then see if I can find a lighter weight e-bike that accommodates that type of rack. But that may be a question for a different forum.

No we've got people here who have done this. Myself in particular Racks that accommodate a child seat plus panniers (which introduces two issues: Weight capacity and room for little legs) all get you into mid-tail and long-tail territory. This is why I didn't bother talking about any of the smaller options discussed by others, and I said right off the bat that the weight limit thing was going to have to go out the window. Forgetting your budget constraints etc. and only focusing on your core jobs, which are panniers plus child carry, you significantly limit your options. Throw in the need to be able to pick it up and carry it and you can't get there from here.

You have to give something up. The easiest thing would be to give up the panniers. At that point you can go to a shorter rack and in turn take advantage of other options that are closed off to you now. The Tern Vektron would be

1. relatively lightweight and folds so easier still to carry.
2. can handle a child seat
3. has a mid drive which translates to being able to climb hills with a child on the back.
4. Its got a reinforced rack thats less than a mid tail but still big enough for a child seat.

Also, if you are thinking about putting a child on the back of a typical rack on a small bike, keep in mind where the kid's face and your butt is going to be positioned.

To put the whole 'heavy duty rack' thinking into perspective, take

• an Axiom Fatliner or Streamliner rack. They are among the heaviest duty racks in the industry. They are rated for 55 kg / 121 lbs, which sounds like a lot, but if you know those racks (I use both) the reality is they're really good for about 55 lbs only.
• The Blackburn Outpost rack: 25kg/55 lbs. Truthfully rated for a change.
• The Surly chromoly rear rack: 36 kg/80 lb rating. Subject to the reality of the next line here:
• ALL racks have lower mounts that screw into a little M5 frame boss on the side of the frame dropout or portion of the seatstay, Think for a minute whether you want to trust your child's safety to a little M5 bolt that has to suffer thru multiple pothole hits without shearing. I still have a frame in my garage whose rack mount (not the bolt) sheared via a pothole and tore a dime-sized hole in my frame.
• Kids grow pretty fast. Whatever solution you come up with, if it lives thru a 55 lb load, think for how long it will work until the kid's weight exceeds the truly safe limit of the M5-bolted rack.
• Children are squirmy AND up high sitting on a bike that moves and jiggles underneath them at speed. Think about how a bolt-on rack is going to flex side to side (and think on the kickstand requirements and how you will manage the bike with the kid on it when stopped... a traditional kickstand means you cannot park the bike with the kid on it without risking it falling over).

If you want a lot more direct-experience on what it takes to safely carry children, The Cargo Bike Republic group on Facebook has literally thousands of users who do this regularly. That means thousands who have started out small and did something less before stepping up to a cargo platform, so don't think you won't find people who haven't done what you are considering.

 

[m@Robertson]

Could I not add a heavy duty rack to that bike? I read it through and it does not have the power I would hope for, but if it was that light maybe I could power it up my hill.

Not a chance That bike is a road bike with a very small battery. Assist is minimal and its ability to climb hills is minimal as well. The motor is low-output, the gearing is 3-speed and that motor (made by Bofeili) is known to strip forward on strong pedaling. Mine did that and thats one of the reasons I sold the bike before I damaged that motor, since I am a pedaler and it was only a matter of time before I caused a problem. Also the stays on that bike would never support 50 lbs-plus on a rack.

Thats a fun neighborhood bike or a light short-distance commuter for someone who has his work clothes in a backpack. Nothing more. If you are a strong pedaler and have a short commute, its freaking great. I felt like I was riding a bicycle again... which is something that by necessity you have to kiss goodbye on the ebike platform.

 

[PedalUma]

What he said! Also, no one has ever purchased a Turn after riding a Specialized Globe Haul. A hill with a load puts the Turn at 10 mph when the Haul is pulling 20. It is advertised as 700W nominal but after riding it you know that peak is more than twice that. The wheels are wide and low for stability and the double-kickstand is wide and stable. The 'rack' is built as part of the frame with plenty of triangular cross members. You really do not want to skimp when it is your kids life.

Big cargo: The Specialized Globe Haul LT reviewed

A very well-designed cargo bike—powerful, smooth, stiff, and reasonably affordable. But is it too big?

www.cyclingweekly.com

 

[6zfshdb]

I've done a little searching through the threads to see if I can find what I'm looking for but decided I needed my own thread, so here goes...

I am looking for an e-bike that meets the following general specifications, and I would say this is in order of priority...

1. has the capacity to carry one child in a rear-mounted child seat (i.e. comes with or can sustain a heavy duty rack)
1. can provide e-assist up a good-sized hill (cause we live on one)
1. has a throttle (my legs aren't what they used to be and I've found it extremely helpful as a rider with a kid in tow in dangerous city conditions)
1. is as lightweight as possible, so I can get it up and down some extremely steep and very tight basement stairs by myself (maybe 35/40 pounds to start with, since I'd be adding on seats, storage, etc)
1. is not as expensive as the really high-end lightweight bikes, cause I just don't have that money to spend unfortunately. less than $2K would be ideal

2. would love assist above 20 miles an hour
2. really want it to be able to accommodate rear panniers AND a child seat - unlike most of the cargo bikes out there
2. would prefer it has one of the handful of name-brand motors that most of my local bikeshops would be willing to work on in a pinch
2. has a step-through version
2. Has reputable parts where it matters (brakes, etc)

There are a LOT of brands out there, and it seems like more every day! I've looked at a number, and it seems like all the features are out there, but I can't quite find the bike that has them all in one. Help me out?

Lots of good suggestions so far and as others have said, it's a tall order. A bike that meets all your requirements likely doesn't exist.

The only thing I can add to the list of ideas already proposed is a suggestion that could help with the bike weight:

I had a handicapped friend who needed to get his heavy e-bike up and down his basement stairs. I bought a 10' length of SCH 40 PVC pipe and cut it in half lengthwise. These are pictures of a ramp I made for my bike rack that uses the same principle:

His stairs were wide enough so we screwed the halves to the stair treads under the hand rail about a foot out from the wall. For narrower stairs, a removeable ramp could be used instead. The fittings on the ends are to keep it from twisting but aren't necessary if the ramp is screwed in place.

He uses the bike's walk assist mode to power the bike up the stairs and the hand brakes to ease it back down. Works perfectly for his needs.

If you don't have a table or circular saw to cut the pipe, buy it at a local home store like Lowes or Home Depot. Most have a radial saw on site and can likely cut it for you.

Good luck!

 

[m@Robertson]

What he said! Also, no one has ever purchased a Turn after riding a Specialized Globe Haul.

Yeah but because of the requirement to carry it up stairs, I think you have to make the compromise and let go of anything resembling a mid- or long-tail. The Globe Haul ST is shorter but I think its probably still too big. Plus I have a neighbor with a Globe Haul ST - the short one - and she can't get up the hill we live atop on the bike with a kid and groceries. Hub motors have that hill-climbing limitation and while you can lessen the problem you can't make it go away.

 

[scottsdalecommuter]

good luck! i doubt a perfect fit exists, you may need to just get the best you can and do it for a year and see how it's working out. i did this for a couple years and always found the up the stairs is the easy part, the down the stairs is the part i always used to about trip over my bike and go tumbling, just awkward carrying, i tried to take the battery out to drop weight but i was too lazy to do that consistently and didnt help that much anyways. we used the wee-ride co-pilot and the kids loved it. also felt cars were a bit slower because it was so big and they got kind of confused by it so slowed down. we never did do the seats or baskets but i'm sure they would have liked them but they also grow fast and are taller kids. if we had more money at that time, the urban arrow looked like the most fun, well have to get one of those for our grandkids someday. be sure and ride safe out there!

 

[indianajo]

I let my bike down the stairs with the front brake. I use knobby tires to prevent flats, so traction is not a problem. I have front wheel drive so powering up with the throttle does not work. But it would with rear wheel drive and a throttle. I'm 74 years old and have rather wimpy arms.

 

[m@Robertson]

@ChrisM I see you put up a nicely detailed post on Cargo Bike Republic yesterday and already have more responses there there than you have here after a week or two. No substitute for going to where the right eyeballs are doing the reading.

I never would have looked at or even knew about what seems to be the quasi-consensus bike being suggested: The Bike Friday Haul-a-Day and Ever-E-Day. The two of them are light weight, and the latter bike, before you get to the motor part, weighs less than 27 pounds! So we all learned something here. Plus its smaller wheels mean lower center of gravity which is a big deal with a child on the back.

You are still making compromises here, but those compromises give you everything you asked for (except for the price point). The Haul A Day is a stronger choice but its a bit heavier and larger. And of course more expensive. It has a center stand which is a big deal for safety and convenience with the child. You really want a center stand to keep the bike stable while you pack the little one on or off, or want to step away from the bike for a moment.

The Ever-E-Day's rack is pretty clever in how it slides into the chainstays. That and its overall construction solves for sturdiness.

The kickstand on the Every E Day sucks, but you should be able to find a bolt-in replacement center stand (something from Ursus maybe) that will address that.

It looks like they are using the Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid drive which I am not crazy about, but its a better fit to their frame than a BBS02 would be. @PedalUma is the Tongsheng guru around here.

I don't know if you've found what you are looking for, but at least you are getting good additional, experience-based perspectives. Bike Friday wants $1100 for adding the motor and battery (only $880 for the Haul A Day so thats worth mulling over) which I can pretty much guarantee you can beat by a mile with some help and advice... but you then have to do the install work yourself.

 

[m@Robertson]

hmmm. Bike Friday really likes to pile on the costs for accessories. When you add up all the costs, an Every E Day with motor, battery and rack is more money than a Haul A Day with motor. And the latter gives you the center kickstand. I bet the E Day with rack is close to the same weight as the H Day.

 

[spokewrench]

Good sized hill? Measurements please? My geared hub motors easily handle 330 lb gross up 15% grades, up to 100' long. I have 3 or 4 grades like that on my weekly commute to summer camp, plus 71 others. 15% is a 7/8" rise on a 6" spirit level.

In 2021 I wanted to measure a grade to calculate how much power my hub motor was providing. I used a level stick to sight a spot on the road uphill, measured the height of the stick from the pavement where I stood, and measured the distance to the spot I'd sighted. (Actually, grade is rise over run - tangent, while I was measuring rise over hypotenuse - sine, which on roads is practically the same.)

Later, I found a short grade that would keep me rolling at a constant slow speed. If I could measure the grade, I could calculate my rolling resistance, but sighting with a stick doesn't work very well where the rise is slight. I used a 4 foot level. My results were inconsistent. I guess if I'd waited until dark and shined a low flashlight along the pavement, shadows would have told me that the grade wasn't constant.

Then I discovered that laser levels can be small, accurate, and cheap. At first I thought it was dangerous to look at a laser. That may be true of pointers, but levels spread the energy along lines. I'd set up the laser near ground level at a landmark at the top of the grade, use a metric carpenter's tape to measure from the beam to the ground, and walk down the hill, laying out a 100 meter fiberglass tape. I'd turn, look toward the level, and crouch until I saw the flash of the laser. That would tell me when I was getting close to the point where the beam was at eye level. Before I got there, I'd spot a convenient landmark, extend the carpenter's tape to the ground, and crouch to see at what mark I saw the laser flash. The difference between the measurements was how far downhill I'd come, and the fiberglass tape showed the distance. I'd write that down and set up the laser to measure then next segment down the hill.

Sometimes I'd bring a short stepladder. Being able to raise my eye level a couple of feet meant I could measure longer downhill segments. I have been using a camera tripod for the level. The minimum height is 18 inches, and having the beam 18 inches off the ground means I can't see it from as far down the hill. It occurs to me that if there is no grass in the way, I can set the level at ground level, for example on a compact disk shimmed with playing cards.

If I know the grade, I can calculate how many watts I'm producing to climb at a certain constant speed. (Any headwind can add a lot. Most of the pavement around here is bumpy like gravel, so rolling resistance is significant.)