Mahle X20
- Thread starter _SAW_
- Start date
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Since the X20 motor just came out the question you should be asking is how reliable was the X35 motor.
Hi
I’ve been using a Scott Addict E ride since January with Mahle X20 240W battery motor and have had no reliability issues however I have had range issues when using it I can get 40 miles from it at an average of 14mph with 2000 ft of climbing using only level 1 power.I purchased the range extender which gives me another 25 miles
If I use the higher power level on climbs I find the range reducing significantly
The manual states a range of between 40 - 100km per charge
I do find the bike nicer to ride with the drag free motor than the X35+ and the benefit of a rear thru axle
However with the X35+ I didn’t seem to have the same range issues
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
3.72 Wh/km on a trip with 600 m elevation gain? It is not bad at all; in fact, it is an excellent battery consumption factor. Meaning a lot of your own leg power input!
This is the reality for any type of low power lightweight motor with a small battery. At low assistance levels, the system is pretty economic. Go into the high assistance mode, and the range goes off the cliff, especially on the climbs.
These are marketing values based on a lightweight and strong rider on the flat in ideal conditions.
Indeed, the specs of the e-bike do look excellent.
Perhaps the difference of the X35 of 40 Nm max compared to x20 55 Nm can explain the discrepancy. More max torque means more motor peak power, hence bigger battery consumption.
Hi Stefan
Thanks for the reply - makes a lot of sense
Love the bike it’s a stealth Carbon Beauty compared to my aluminuim Lappierre with an X35+ which I can get 78 miles with 4,000 ft of climbing with range extender
I’m wondering if riding the X20 during the winter months January - March 5° - 9° May have reduced performance slightly ?
However I’ll be happy if I can get 65 miles out of X20 Scott with range extender and 3500 ft climbing
Thanks for the reply - makes a lot of sense
Love the bike it’s a stealth Carbon Beauty compared to my aluminuim Lappierre with an X35+ which I can get 78 miles with 4,000 ft of climbing with range extender
I’m wondering if riding the X20 during the winter months January - March 5° - 9° May have reduced performance slightly ?
However I’ll be happy if I can get 65 miles out of X20 Scott with range extender and 3500 ft climbing
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Slightly for sure. Even if British winters are rather mild, winter riding is slow and emptying the batteries faster than it happens in the warm season.
All depending on your own leg input! I ride a Vado SL with a mid-motor in the plains but I certainly need far more of assistance than you do, and my battery consumption factor requires me to use not only one but several Range Extenders on my long rides! Does the X20 allow you to tune the assistance?
Oh, the e-bike is indeed beautiful and I only can regret my shape of health does not allow me riding that kind of e-bikes!
Last edited:
Hi Stefan
Yes you can tune the assistance for % of the 3 levels but I have found anything above 40% gives you great boost but rapid battery use So I tend to use 35 - 40 % of level 1 which gets me along comfortably at 15mph and up hills using low gears
The Mahle video shows Tom Kristensen Le Mans driver soaring up Alps on a Scott Addict E
Mind there are 2 battery option levels available 250 W/hrs and 350 W/hrs at a difference of about £500
I did have the bike checked over by a Scott dealer who contacted Mahle and they confirmed battery and motor all ok using there diagnostics
So just need to get out and and ride it in the summer for up to 60 miles and a few Northumberland hills
I anticipate a mid motor in a few years time when I hit 75
JustRiding
Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Copenhagen
On a flat surface with no wind I usually cycle on my Scott eRide 20 between 28-32 km/h, so the engine (on lowest = green mode) only kicks in for accelerating after a full stop. Otherwise it is neutral. This is why the battery lasts that long. Did a 60 km run on Saturday along the Baltic Sea coast and battery only was used for accelerating after stops / traffic lights (low mode = green), for 2-3 smaller hills (medium mode = orange) and a few occasions with nasty head wind (low mode = green). battery was 42% used when I returned.
It consumes a lot when you climb with orange or purple mode, so in a hilly environment the figures may look quite different.
The engine and the app seems to be more stable after the latest updates. Previously their own app was unusable and the engine sometimes issued error codes 8but kept working). Now everything runs fine.
This engine is really fine for a light racing bike where it just occasionally kicks in but otherwise stays in neutral / friction free mode and has a low weight. For a regular commuter bike it would be a different story/ use case (there I rely on my Specialized Vado SL which has a slightly more powerful middle motor. But then again, on a flat slope you rarely go beyond 27km/h and engine runs most of the time)
It consumes a lot when you climb with orange or purple mode, so in a hilly environment the figures may look quite different.
The engine and the app seems to be more stable after the latest updates. Previously their own app was unusable and the engine sometimes issued error codes 8but kept working). Now everything runs fine.
This engine is really fine for a light racing bike where it just occasionally kicks in but otherwise stays in neutral / friction free mode and has a low weight. For a regular commuter bike it would be a different story/ use case (there I rely on my Specialized Vado SL which has a slightly more powerful middle motor. But then again, on a flat slope you rarely go beyond 27km/h and engine runs most of the time)
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
JustRiding, does the display on your X20 show motor watt output while cycling?
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Another question for Scott X20 owners; do you find the riding position to be more 'sport' than 'endurance'? Comparing riding style between the Addict and the new Solace.
I get power output and cadence display on my Garmin from the Addict
My position on the Addict is quite upright with the saddle only slightly higher than the handlebars and 3 spacers under the stem The frame is medium and I am about 5 foot 10 inches in height
I also have the brake levers fairly high up the handlebars I
JustRiding
Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Copenhagen
same here, I also use a Garmin Edge to get this data.
Upright position is of course relative. After all, this is a racing bike. Wouldn't really call it upright seating but I read somewhere that it's more moderate than some other racing bikes.
BA-Bananas
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
I don’t get the option for cadence or power (human) on my Edge 830 with my X20 Wilier. Did you have to do something additional to make this work?
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Buy a mid-drive motor e-bike by Specialized or Giant. X20 has no rider power meter because a hub drive motor does not use this information.
BA-Bananas
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
If you believe the marketing then it reads rider power input and cadence to vary motor output. My lived experience is that it does this in a pretty coarse way. I think the posts above were probably referring to bike power anyway but I would like to get cadence reading on my Garmin.
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
While the X20 certainly has a cadence sensor, I do not think it has the proper torque sensor; or, the torque sensor in X20 does not do the calculation of the Pedalling Power = f(Torque, Cadence), so the leg power cannot be reported. The mid-drive motors I'm riding not only do that calculation (it is necessary to determine the assistance motor power) but also report it to Wahoo, Garmin and Karoo2 via ANT+.
Interestingly, a cadence sensor for an analog bike is one of the cheapest items while a "power pedal" that determines the torque and cadence to calculate the rider's pedalling power is very expensive.
BA-Bananas
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
I worked it out. The bike has a second ant+ sensor which only shows up as a power meter type on my garmin. That provides cadence, speed, and power. I was previously searching for a cadence meter and getting no results.
On power all I know for sure is that Mahle state it does record pedal power with over 95% accuracy and it sends data to my garmin that seems very similar to the power meter on my non-electric road bike. I’ll have a proper play at the weekend. The good thing is that I now have cadence working which is what I was mainly after.
On power all I know for sure is that Mahle state it does record pedal power with over 95% accuracy and it sends data to my garmin that seems very similar to the power meter on my non-electric road bike. I’ll have a proper play at the weekend. The good thing is that I now have cadence working which is what I was mainly after.
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Please report your findings. If you can really get your pedalling power from the X20, then that would be a very good information, and then I am ready to say sorry for my wrong views!
BA-Bananas
New Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
Tried it this afternoon and it does provide pedal power to the head unit along with cadence and speed. Mahle have actually been posting about it on social media in the last few days. In terms of accuracy it’s ballpark where I’d expect. I did some steeper stuff today and the motor response to my growing input was noticeable. I had a couple of rides on an X35 Ribble previously and that seemed to give less motor power as you slowed down on steeper climbs.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
The motor giving the rider less power has the cadence slows down going up a steeper hill is the opposite to what I would want. Adding a torque sensor to the new X20 motor is a BIG plus.
