30 Chinese Cities are on Level 1 lockdown

[Handlebars]

OK, Sure?... You stated the real problem - there's not enough testing up front even though NY is way ahead of the rest of the country in testing.

So just in case you think it's plausible that Covid-19 deaths in NYC are severely overreported:

Mean pneumonia caused deaths in NYC per year(1999-2015): 2435 link

NYC pneumonia caused deaths reported to and processed by CDC 2/1/20-4/11/20: 2744 CDC

(That report states that there is a delay of 1-8 weeks for all death reporting to show up in the report, it was updated on 4/14 so the pneumonia number is only going to go up). So more pneumonia deaths in an incomplete 10 weeks then in an average 52 weeks?

Nothing you said is untrue, but if you want to believe NYC is having a record setting pneumonia outbreak, go for it. I mean what else could it be?

I haven't checked the stats. Could you comment on why you state a mean instead of a previous record in establishing a record setting outbreak?

 

[Solom01]

Where were all these bleeding hearts when the US infant mortality rate was soaring through the roof and people in lower socio-economic classes were dying from heart issues at rates that make the number of deaths from coronavirus a rounding error? I guess it's like the folks in California and Oregon who are so concerned about it now, but had no problem not only ignoring 200,000 homeless people living in squalor but consistently blocked any effort to actually build any affordable housing because, God forbid, it would put "cheap" housing near their multi-million dollar housing. In any year the number of people undergoing chemotherapy and thus living with weak immune systems has been higher than the number of people with coronavirous - but no one ever said let's quarantine the entire population to protect those with weak immune systems - it was always expected that those with compromised systems would isolate themselves.

 

[Browneye]

I'm not exactly sure of the numbers or percentage of the homeless population, that are hopeless drug abusers, but it's hard to get them to not be homeless, even for free housing - they like their freedom to be high, or low, or whatever it is they get out of their drug of choice. Many really don't want any rules or responsibility, that comes with rehab, so they prefer the camp setting. Worse, the weather/climate is conducive to it. I'm sure it's not so pleasant when it's 45 and raining, but nearly 9 months of the year it's a comfy average of about 80deg, 62 at night. Our windows and doors are left open most of the year.

The camp they finally cleared off the river trail by Anaheim stadium, 10k pounds of human excrement had to be cleared, 25k needles were picked up, and 20 tons of trash hauled away.

But we are supposed to want them housed next door to our affluent communities?
Pelosi comes under fire for the squalor in her district. SF used to be the jewel city on the CA coast, not so much now, and the cost of living is the highest in the nation.

And developers are forced to have some part of their project that is "affordable", thereby degrading the value and profit of their project.

I don't have the answer; it is a complicated problem. Then throw in 5 million illegals and picture gets even more blurry.

 

[Solom01]

I hear you, it is a really huge problem, but what seems somewhat surreal is all the people saying that you can't put a value on human lives - yet societies do it all the time. Over 50k car fatalities a year, but we accept that as the price for having relatively affordable cars and mobility. One of the highest infant mortality death rates in the industrial world, but we accept that rather than change our health system, and on and on. Not sure what's right or wrong, but people are sure panicking over something that is no more dangerous to overall society than other issues. Unfortunately I see California making choices that makes it a heaven for homeless people, with the result being that that part of the population is growing while the more affluent are getting the heck out of dodge. Other states such as Florida and Texas have tax codes and policies that attract wealthier persons, so our population is attracting more and more of the .5% that are ditching NY and CA. If ones population is going to grow I would rather attract the wealthy and not the homeless.

 

[Browneye]

I hear you, it is a really huge problem, but what seems somewhat surreal is all the people saying that you can't put a value on human lives - yet societies do it all the time. Over 50k car fatalities a year, but we accept that as the price for having relatively affordable cars and mobility. One of the highest infant mortality death rates in the industrial world, but we accept that rather than change our health system, and on and on. Not sure what's right or wrong, but people are sure panicking over something that is no more dangerous to overall society than other issues. Unfortunately I see California making choices that makes it a heaven for homeless people, with the result being that that part of the population is growing while the more affluent are getting the heck out of dodge. Other states such as Florida and Texas have tax codes and policies that attract wealthier persons, so our population is attracting more and more of the .5% that are ditching NY and CA. If ones population is going to grow I would rather attract the wealthy and not the homeless.

Nailed it. All around.
We plan to move at retirement. We can build a brand new home on acreage, in another state, for half of what a forty year old home costs on a 6K square foot lot here in so-Cal. The weather and jobs brings people here, and they like it. We have managed to work our lives and schedules around the times when everybody is doing something else - preferably eating or sleeping. When we drive out of the basin we leave at 4am - it skips the gridlock traffic. Pretty much around the entire state, from 2pm to 7pm the roads are like gridlock. EVERYWHERE.

These stats pissed a few people off, but they are what they are. The total covid death cases are dated - now more like 120K worldwide, but just for comparison sake it's rather revealing. I mean come on - 120K vs 1.9 million for cancer? Twice as many suicides? This all came as a real shock to me. We have to figure out how to manage this thing. We are currently at 19 deaths for a population of 3.2M in our county. Seriously. And 90% of those were elderly with underlying health issues. Something has to give.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

... You've done that in a lot of threads, and not just mine....

Ad-hominem and personal attacks were deleted from the above quote.

I guess I didn't fully understand the rules of this thread and mistakenly thought that it was supposed to be a discussion and that different points of view were welcome. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

It seems that emotions have ran much too high on this thread. I will give this thread a miss for a few days and hopefully things will cool down a bit.

 

[jaizon]

Eat me. Waffle out your own rear end. And yes it's fun, it's all we've got.
I'm not waiting in line for food. We were at the market Sunday and it was very well stocked, great prices, everything you could want and then some, absolutely fantastic. Put your money where your mouth is.

I am not hungry enough (yet) to eat you, so that's a hard pass. I'm glad you don't have to get in line for food. But I suggest you take a hard look at food production now, supply chains and buying food without money (those less fortunate than you or me). And the reality is there are millions who are not in our boat. Yet it is certainly possible that that their problems will be our problems in the not so distant future. So I prefer not to be holier than thou.

But it didn't have to be this way.

I agree! If our ego driven know nothing liar in chief had done so many things differently and earlier, it is possible that the U.S., as a whole, would be more like San Francisco with its incredibly low infection rate. Hard to argue with those numbers.

 

[BlackHand]

I haven't checked the stats. Could you comment on why you state a mean instead of a previous record in establishing a record setting outbreak?

Sure, not trying to cherry pick anything here. The study I linked to analyzed 17 years of death certificates in NYC and found 41400 pneumonia deaths. That data was about trends, not records.

I have no idea what the record is, so I guess I shouldn't have facetiously used the term record setting outbreak if that's what you want to focus on. The point was that from what I can see pneumonia deaths seem to be way up not down.

Mike is right in that doctors should be better at correctly filling out death certificates and I have no doubt errors are being made. I would guess more than usual given that deaths are way up in NYC and climbing. I just don't see how that points to some conspiracy to make things look worse in NYC.

 

[Browneye]

I am not hungry enough (yet) to eat you, so that's a hard pass. I'm glad you don't have to get in line for food. But I suggest you take a hard look at food production now, supply chains and buying food without money (those less fortunate than you or me). And the reality is there are millions who are not in our boat. Yet it is certainly possible that that their problems will be our problems in the not so distant future. So I prefer not to be holier than thou.


I agree! If our ego driven know nothing liar in chief had done so many things differently and earlier, it is possible that the U.S., as a whole, would be more like San Francisco with its incredibly low infection rate. Hard to argue with those numbers.

Oops...another libtard. Sure, blame it all on Trump. So lame. FB is the place for you!!
Oh, and get ready for another four years of MAGA. The DNC nominated a dunce to run against Trump. Such fools - he'll get squashed like a bug. He can't even articulate a simple sentence, but they want him to run the country? Dear lord...
You guys are gonna be crying in your milk.

 

[Handlebars]

Sure, not trying to cherry pick anything here. The study I linked to analyzed 17 years of death certificates in NYC and found 41400 pneumonia deaths. That data was about trends, not records.

I have no idea what the record is, so I guess I shouldn't have facetiously used the term record setting outbreak if that's what you want to focus on.

I focus on what sticks out to me as an error in thinking on subjects that interest me.

The point was that from what I can see pneumonia deaths seem to be way up not down.

The way different places are doing death certificates can make it difficult or impossible to easily assess or compare what is going on. The dead to recovered numbers in UK are horrifying and I think reporting differences is perhaps a main issue. If not, then something is very very wrong in UK. SO FAR, as of last week, once you have been confirmed you are 28 times more likely to have died than recovered .

Mike is right in that doctors should be better at correctly filling out death certificates and I have no doubt errors are being made. I would guess more than usual given that deaths are way up in NYC and climbing. I just don't see how that points to some conspiracy to make things look worse in NYC.

Thank you.
Did Mike say it was a conspiracy?

 

[jaizon]

Oops...another libtard. Sure, blame it all on Trump. So lame. FB is the place for you!!
Oh, and get ready for another four years of MAGA. The DNC nominated a dunce to run against Trump. Such fools - he'll get squashed like a bug. He can't even articulate a simple sentence, but they want him to run the country? Dear lord...
You guys are gonna be crying in your milk.

Yes. Absolutely blame it on Trump. I won't go into all the statistics or the actual record, because you will just call me a "libtard". But I see that you have adopted his method of arguing...name calling and diverting, which is exactly what Trump does, every single time. What does Biden have to do with this conversation? We are talking about Trump's words and deeds. Jeez. Pathetic.

 

[Handlebars]

If our ego driven know nothing liar in chief had done so many things differently and earlier, it is possible that the U.S., as a whole, would be more like San Francisco with its incredibly low infection rate. Hard to argue with those numbers.

Is it possible that you could name a top few of those many things? Thanks. I'm quite curious as to how you come to believe such a statement.

 

[BlackHand]

I focus on what sticks out to me as an error in thinking on subjects that interest me.

The way different places are doing death certificates can make it difficult or impossible to easily assess or compare what is going on. The dead to recovered numbers in UK are horrifying and I think reporting differences is perhaps a main issue. If not, then something is very very wrong in UK. SO FAR, as of last week, once you have been confirmed you are 28 times more likely to have died than recovered .

Thank you.
Did Mike say it was a conspiracy?

I thought Mike was the one who brought up the original mention of doctors classifying Covid-19 deaths in NY with no confirmed lab tests. I'm not seeing the link that I remembered, so maybe I'm mistaken and it was someone else who linked the piece. The 'over-reporting' deaths on purpose in NYC by doctors seems to have been a pretty standard talking point in many circles the last few weeks and that seemed to be what Mike was buying into.

 

[Browneye]

Yes. Absolutely blame it on Trump. I won't go into all the statistics or the actual record, because you will just call me a "libtard". But I see that you have adopted his method of arguing...name calling and diverting, which is exactly what Trump does, every single time. What does Biden have to do with this conversation? We are talking about Trump's words and deeds. Jeez. Pathetic.

Yes, indeed you are pathetic. And ill-informed. But we won't hold it against you. Try unplugging from CNN for a time, that might help. MSNBC as well. They are fake news - a mouthpiece for the DNC.
The point is, you're on the losing side. Get ready for another four years of...losing. The rest of us will be winning. Too bad.

 

[Browneye]

I thought Mike was the one who brought up the original mention of doctors classifying Covid-19 deaths in NY with no confirmed lab tests. I'm not seeing the link that I remembered, so maybe I'm mistaken and it was someone else who linked the piece. The 'over-reporting' deaths on purpose in NYC by doctors seems to have been a pretty standard talking point in many circles the last few weeks and that seemed to be what Mike was buying into.

The CDC admitted that anything and everything that could possibly be associated with the virus have been lumped into those numbers. That is all. I don't think it makes that much difference, but creates inconsistency in the yardstick of comparison to everything and everywhere else around the globe. Like China's numbers - simply not realistic. And Germany's numbers being way low.

 

[steve mercier]

I will repost this.

 

[Browneye]

The same can be done with your illustrious MSM hacks. More fake news. Frankly, the entire country is tired of all the whiners, constant fussing and whining. A bunch of losers.

There, FIFY.

 

[jaizon]

Is it possible that you could name a top few of those many things? Thanks. I'm quite curious as to how you come to believe such a statement.

You have GOT to be kidding! But nice try.

I will repost this.

I will repost this.

I appreciate the post, but even Donald's own words will not convince them. He has been sent by god, they believe. And what is all the talk about drug addicts and the homeless (serious problems, no doubt) have to do with Trump's actions. hahahaha The believers believe. Can't talk to them.

 

[Handlebars]

You have GOT to be kidding! But nice try.



I appreciate the post, but even Donald's own words will not convince them. He has been sent by god, they believe. And what is all the talk about drug addicts and the homeless (serious problems, no doubt) have to do with Trump's actions. hahahaha The believers believe. Can't talk to them.

My request was that you name few of

If our ego driven know nothing liar in chief had done so many things differently and earlier, it is possible that the U.S., as a whole, would be more like San Francisco

So you've given ten examples of one thing...downplaying? And if he'd done it earlier or differently, then...?
BTW, I agree that it was a bad look and unwise at least politically, to downplay it.
It sounded like you might have a promising list, though, really. He downplayed it. Alright. Is that it? That's all?

 

[jaizon]

My request was that you name few of
So you've given ten examples of one thing...downplaying? And if he'd done it earlier or differently, then...?
BTW, I agree that it was a bad look and unwise at least politically, to downplay it.
It sounded like you might have a promising list, though, really. He downplayed it. Alright. Is that it? That's all?

Do your own homework...or not. Doesn't matter to me. There is a ton of stuff out there about this issue. TTFN