2021 Class 3 Commuter Ebikes Thread: A Comprehensive Listing

[MadManMark]

Radpower has a city model that's 750 W but still only Class 2

I own the Radcity, and it only took thirty seconds to go into the controller menus and adjust the battery pedal-assist cutout from the default of 32kph (20mph) to 40kph (25mph). I understand is still 5kph below the limit for class 3, but it's closer to that than it is to Class 2. Class 2.6?

I understand others may have gotten higher top assist speeds on Radpower bikes by changing other settings to "fool" the bike (I think they changed the wheel size setting?), but I guess 25mph was good enough for me, and also at some point I suspect you are risking burning out some component by pushing it too far (maybe that is part of the answer to your question?)

Another possible answer is the same one for this question: why are there more choices for sedans than sports cars? Your requirements are pretty extreme -- I mean, listen to yourself: "a better chance of accelerating past the cars." You are not merely interested in keeping up with them, you want to pass them? Maybe you should be looking for a motorcycle (gas or electric), not an ebike?

 

[Ken M]

40km/h is a little less than 25mph.
So you can only adjust it up to 40km/h?

Anyways, i don't think you will be burning out the components.
Juiced bikes come with 20mph (32km/h) as default but you can go all the way up to 99mph.
Due to mechanical limitation, realistically it won't go much faster than 30mph.
Tora was explaining this on Juiced YouTube channel.

The limitations are typically simple: Cadence is going to become an issue depending on the top gearing of the bike. If the ebike has enough power and a throttle you can exceed the cadence issue but not contribute to the power. You really need something like 1200-1600W to cruise at a speed around 35mph on a flat surface (rider aerodynamics, rider weight, rolling resistance, etc. are factors). This isn't crazy high power and the battery size needed for decent range isn't monstrous but both do push the ebike envelope a bit if you want it to look anything like a bike.

Personally I think an ebike in the direct drive hub motor in the 1500-2000W range or a geared hub motor in the 1000-1500W range (they have some internal mechanical advantages that will make them more torquey at low speeds but that advantage fads away as higher speeds are achieved) is the tech sweet spot. Both of these should provide a good 30-35mph cruising speed for most riders even if they can't input much help because of high cadence. Oh, and of coarse you have a sticker on the bike that says 749W (and these become "peak" values that are already being ignored by the entire industry...even Bosch).

Note: Few really read it but the US federal ebike regulations do not specify a top assist speed so long as the rider is engaged in pedaling (even ghost pedaling is probably compliant as the regulation is written). I know a lot of bloggers are now going to say I'm wrong again but I hope they take the time to read the regulation before doing so.

 

[ROJA]

I think some of the manufacturers don't give true power numbers. My 2016 Specialized Turbo X (prior gen with the hub motor, discussed a few posts above) says it has 250W (nominal) but it definitely puts out more than that (probably the 750W CA maximum) and when run at 60% power gives me the perfect amount of assist to travel at about 26-7mph with moderately hard effort on my part (which is exactly what I want out of my ebike for a combo of great exercise and a fast commute).

 

[Mikey-]

The 2019 Gazelle CityZen goes 28mph. Decked out as a commuter as well.
Older ones only assisted to 20mph

 

[joshuaho96]

The issue with mid-drives on fast commuter ebikes is that gearing actually negatively impacts the delivered torque to the rear wheel. While mid-drives are wonderful for slow speed climbing because the torque is delivered efficiently or even increased by bike gearing the mechanical efficiency at high speeds is very poor. Let's say your on a 44T front and 11T rear....only 25% of the mid-drives motor's crank torque is being delivered to the rear wheel. 100% of a hub drive motor's torque is being delivered and at speeds 20mph and above even a DD hub motor is very efficient and will outperform even a high powered mid-drive like the Bafang Ultra.

This is fundamentally not how motors work and shows a misunderstanding of how power relates to RPM and torque.

At high speeds hub motors are more efficient yes. This is not in question. The reason is the drivetrain loss. Only 93% of the power delivered at the cranks will make it to the wheels in a typical derailleur type setup in addition to the losses at the motor. I am willing to bet that if you actually go and measure efficiency for a hub drive vs a mid drive on a dyno you will find that most of the loss is here. If you're running a truly high power hub drive or mid drive with single sprocket (ideal chainline, no derailleur, LMX64 style) then a mid drive going through the derailleur drivetrain is wasting a lot of power for questionable benefit.

With that said, mid drives running through multiple gears gets you significantly more wheel torque compared to a hub drive of the same power throughout your operating range. You can optimize a hub drive for massive stall torque but your max speed will be low. You can wind for higher speed at the cost of torque. A mid drive allows for both simultaneously.

Electric motors cannot have both high torque and high speed due to back-emf, at high shaft RPM all electric motors will inevitably lose torque.

 

[pushkar]

Hey guys, here is a sneak peek at what we are launching in a couple of weeks. In process of putting final touches to content / site / material.
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/super-commuter-version-1-1.27128/page-2#post-198375

 

[nublar]

Haibike Urban Plus is class 3, comes with full fenders, kickstand, and rear rack, 2.4" 650B balloon tyres, and is only $1600

 

[pushkar]

Haibike Urban Plus is class 3, comes with full fenders, kickstand, and rear rack, 2.4" 650B balloon tyres, and is only $1600

I believe the price is $3599. Yes, there are a ton of options with full fenders, kickstands, rear racks. You can also build one yourself.

At Watt Wagons we are building a more refined, nuanced product. We offer the most powerful street legal (in the US) ebike , with tons of detail and components that users will typically find in a fairly high end product (think RM, Stromer etc).

I am responding specifically to the OP - building about offering or "making high powered commuter ebikes" . A commuter e-bike isn't just speed - it is the ability to commute on a wide variety of terrain, offer consistent performance in a variety of weather and be super reliable, all at the same time.

 

[RUMBA]

Scientific studies done to compare the safety of a 28mph e-bike vs a 20mph e-bike? Good luck finding that one. It’s not just the impact velocity that matters either. It’s that lower speed differentials give a car approaching you from behind more time to see you and react. Here’s a quote from your link on speed differential:

If on a particular road, the speed variance is high, this will result in less predictability, more encounters, more overtaking manoeuvres, etc. Therefore, when speed differences increase, the accident risk increases as well. Hence, a countermeasure that results in lower average speed, but in larger speed differences may not have the expected positive effect on road safety. But no reliable quantified relationship has been established for this linkage.

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ken M]

I tend to think a good commuting ebike can sustain an effective average speed even going up a reasonable grade which is where a lot of ebikes fall short. I think that even though the US has higher power limits than Europe most ebike performance is still a bit short of adequate. Maybe some of the new mid-drives with 500-1000W peak power ratings will change that but I'd still like to see a good direct drive hub motor come along for idea urban mobility.

 

[Asher]

Haibike Urban Plus is class 3, comes with full fenders, kickstand, and rear rack, 2.4" 650B balloon tyres, and is only $1600

It's discontinued.

 

[Nabs]

Won't delimiting the speed limit effectively make many Bikes high powered and fast?

 

[steve mercier]

you still have to pedal to get those faster speeds on a 250 watt mid drive , but on a 500 watt hub motor you can power up hills faster( breaking spokes along the way) with little input from your legs. Personally I prefer the exercise.

 

[Asher]

There are quite a few 28mph commuter bikes on the market.

Haibike SDURO Trekking S 9.0
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Rise & Muller Delite GT Touring HS

IZIP E3 Dash
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Bulls Twenty8 E45

350w motors, 500wh batteries (except the RM)

 

[christob]

I'll add another plug for my favorite commuter -- the Cafe I'm riding, from Vintage Electric... 750w hub motor, class 3 and far zippier/speedier in the upper levels of assist than I ever need. I sometimes wish the battery was bigger/higher capacity (500wh), but it meets my needs and I generally recharge it every 65 - 85 miles of accumulated travel. (Granted my commute is not one of those 30-mile-one-way deals... I tend to average about 22-27 miles per biking day, with 30-mile outings on clear weekend days.)
I'd consider a bike with front suspension next time (Vintage just rolled out a new model this week, the Rambler, that appears to be a Cafe with front suspension - at about $1k more; so I'll pass for now!) just because my commute route (almost entirely on paved trails) is SO tree-root-buckled. The Cafe comes with matching fenders; I added a rear rack and now use a Bontrager "large town shopper" bag as my clip-on pannier -- flat-bottomed, straight-walled, probably the shape/size of a traditional old-school large brown paper grocery bag. Holds my work shoes, pants and shirt (I often bike in shorts, t-shirt & clip shoes) plus a few other riding necessities; I've been really happy with it as a carry-all bag.

 

[Nabs]

you still have to pedal to get those faster speeds on a 250 watt mid drive , but on a 500 watt hub motor you can power up hills faster( breaking spokes along the way) with little input from your legs. Personally I prefer the exercise.

But you can adjust it on the 500w motor right? I am looking at bikes of 250w motors 350w and 500w.

 

[steve mercier]

But you can adjust it on the 500w motor right? I am looking at bikes of 250w motors 350w and 500w.

you really need to test ride at least a few different systems of bikes, since each system has unique characteristics. When I took my first test ride I was so impressed with the power of the 500 watt hub drive that I bought the bike right away. Only later did I realize that there is more to a system than raw power. It became clear to me that this bike was unsafe. How and when that power is delivered is very important. Now I have a less powerfull Bosch system but it delivers the power in a way that blends in with the pedal strokes almost perfectly. And I should say that I am not bashing all hub motor systems. the one I bought was too primitive but I am sure that there are great hub system bikes like OHM which solve the problems like cadence sensor response and spoke breakage.

 

[tomjasz]

But you can adjust it on the 500w motor right? I am looking at bikes of 250w motors 350w and 500w.

I'm the odd user riding 250W and 350W 36V systems. They are the hardest bikes to resell. The American market seems weighted on the side of more power than brakes can effectively stop.

I communicate with disappointed riders every day. It's easier to reduce performance than to upgrade an existing system.

 

[Asher]

Ride1Up's 700 is a new entrant to the Class 3 commuter category; they're supposedly upgrading the motor to 750 w in their next batch in March. Battery is a little light at 672 wh, but overall the bike is well-specced (I'd happily pay an extra $50-100 for a Deore drivetrain though).

700 Series - Ride1UP | Best Electric Bike 2021

Ultimate electric bike experience. Rack & Fenders included. Hydraulic brakes, 15ah Samsung battery, Super Moto X tires, a fully integrated frame, and speeds of 15mph

ride1up.com

(Link Removed - Attachment No Longer Exists)

 

[Rick53]

Ride1Up's 700 is a new entrant to the Class 3 commuter category; they're supposedly upgrading the motor to 750 w in their next batch in March. Battery is a little light at 672 wh, but overall the bike is well-specced (I'd happily pay an extra $50-100 for a Deore drivetrain though).

700 Series - Ride1UP | Best Electric Bike 2021

Ultimate electric bike experience. Rack & Fenders included. Hydraulic brakes, 15ah Samsung battery, Super Moto X tires, a fully integrated frame, and speeds of 15mph

ride1up.com

(Link Removed - Attachment No Longer Exists)

Why so many Women's Bikes ? Very few women would even want a class 3 Bike :