2020 Civante Review, Initial 100 mile Impressions

[Greydog]

Thanks Dave. It looks like I will get the 80mm as I need the bars a little closer on the large frame. Have you upgraded the tires or seat post? I would prefer to run 28c tires as I run 25c on my current bike. But I think a 32c on an ebike will handle the weight and torque better than a 28c tire. Low rolling resistance tires really make a difference on regular bikes. I run Continental 5000 GT tires currently and they are very fast. It is not so much of an issue with an ebike but it may save a little battery life and extend the range. The Pirelli's that I am looking at will save a little over a pound in weight compared to the stock tires.

I will probably swap out the cassette for a Shimano 105 or Ultegra cassette to save a bit more weight. I would like to get the bike down to about 40 pounds.

 

[Oski1997]

Hi Dave

Do you know what mm length that Richey is? I am just curious because I don't want to run into cable issues with them being too short for the rise and length. I am thinking about getting either the 80mm or 90mm. I would prefer an even higher rise at 40 to 45 degree angle. I will probably wait until the bike arrives to see how much cable length there is.

Glad to hear that you still love the bike. How is it holding up? There is a bike shop here that stopped carrying them due to a lot of mechanical issues with the frame.

Hi Greydog,

I bought a Civante a month ago. I upgraded the pedals to the Shimano PD-540 and use the Specialized Recon 2 MTB shoes. I start to get uncomfortable on the seat after 30 miles of riding. But, I bought Rapha’s Pro Team bib and that has made a world of difference. Rapha’s Classic and Core bibs are also good. I bought the Pro Team bib for their dual-density chamois pad for comfort and support on my 40+ mile rides. I also bought the Zefal Magnum Water Bottles because they hold 33oz of water. I bought the Pro Bike Tool cage because it holds extra large water bottles well. I have a hack for putting the cage on the top of the frame using Velcro straps. It’s not elegant but it’s the only way I can hold the 33oz bottle on the top and a 24oz bottle in the normal bottle cage area especially on my 50-mile rides. 50-mile rides are usually my limit because it’s a hassle carrying two batteries and to be honest, I am exhausted after a 5-mile ride (lol). What kind of mechanical issues did your LBS find with the frame? Was it specifically on the Civante frame?

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[Oski1997]

I got the 80mm, 30 degree. It moves the bar position just under an inch up and an inch closer. No problem with the cables or anything else. It does put the display at a bit of an up angle as opposed to flat, and with all the other stuff being one piece - the assist controller and the base for the bell - it presents a challenge about how to mount a Wahoo or anything else that I have not yet conquered. I currently have my iPhone in a top tube gas tank style bag with a clear top, but i don’t like it there. Intention is to figure out some way to mount a Wahoo Roam, maybe with one of those extender bars that are seen in other threads here.

No problems with any other facet or function of the bike for me.

Dave, with the current location of the display, I am having a hard time finding a USB-C “right angle” that is short enough to fit in the limited space I have to plug it in. You probably don’t have this problem because your stem is an inch higher. Did. You also have a hard time getting in a USB-C cable when the stem was in it’s original position?

 

[WattsUpDude]

Dave, with the current location of the display, I am having a hard time finding a USB-C “right angle” that is short enough to fit in the limited space I have to plug it in. You probably don’t have this problem because your stem is an inch higher. Did. You also have a hard time getting in a USB-C cable when the stem was in it’s original position?

I use this adapter on my Urban Rush (same configuration). It’s a bit fiddly to install but I just leave it there.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

I haven’t found a right angle USB connector either. What an oversight that was, no design intelligence involved at all there.

Thanks WattsUp, I’m going to order that right now.

As for tires, I come from a touring bike background in the old days with tires that were probably 38mm or thereabouts, and my gravel ebike has 50s on it. So to me these 35s are about perfect... they feel substantial enough and the bike is super easy to ride with the motor off on flats or with any tailwind at all. Great for the range.

 

[Greydog]

Oski,

Thanks for all the info. I will definitely look into all that gear. I don't ride clipless pedals though as my left knee screams at me when getting in and out of them. I have been riding toe clips for years. I just may cannibalize my non ebike for pedals and and some other gear. Next year I would like to look into putting a 10 spd 105 or Ultegra crank on the bike if possible and lighter wheels. It's overkill but fun.

Dave, I like the rear bike rack that you use. I will probably buy one for the rare occasion that I want to bring a battery charger or spare battery along or a change of clothes.

More pressing is that I need to find a lightweight road saddle that won't cause numbness in my butt and legs.

By the way, does anyone here live in the Twin Cities area? I live in a suburb called Woodbury.

 

[Oski1997]

I use this adapter on my Urban Rush (same configuration). It’s a bit fiddly to install but I just leave it there.

Thanks, I’ll buy them today!!

 

[Oski1997]

I haven’t found a right angle USB connector either. What an oversight that was, no design intelligence involved at all there.

Thanks WattsUp, I’m going to order that right now.

As for tires, I come from a touring bike background in the old days with tires that were probably 38mm or thereabouts, and my gravel ebike has 50s on it. So to me these 35s are about perfect... they feel substantial enough and the bike is super easy to ride with the motor off on flats or with any tailwind at all. Great for the range.

I agree the tires are perfect! The bikes without drop handlebars (like the Moro Pro and Cross Connect) don’t have this issue because the display is in a different position. I really like the position of our displaysso I won’t be moving it around. I’m sure we’ll find a good cable configuration.

 

[Oski1997]

Oski,

Thanks for all the info. I will definitely look into all that gear. I don't ride clipless pedals though as my left knee screams at me when getting in and out of them. I have been riding toe clips for years. I just may cannibalize my non ebike for pedals and and some other gear. Next year I would like to look into putting a 10 spd 105 or Ultegra crank on the bike if possible and lighter wheels. It's overkill but fun.

Dave, I like the rear bike rack that you use. I will probably buy one for the rare occasion that I want to bring a battery charger or spare battery along or a change of clothes.

More pressing is that I need to find a lightweight road saddle that won't cause numbness in my butt and legs.

By the way, does anyone here live in the Twin Cities area? I live in a suburb called Woodbury.

Sure thing Greydog, I live in San Diego so quite far from Twin Cities. I’d also like to upgrade the group set to the 105’s. But, I’ve heard the 105’s are now 11-speed and Yamaha says the Civante motor was programmed to work as a 10-speed. Changing the group set to an 11-speed wouldn’t align well with the power curve of the motor. I don’t know if that’s true or if that’s noticeable in the real world. The bike is too new for anyone to have tried this yet. I also think a pair of MTB shorts with padding will help with the numbness. Mountain bikers use them (something like the EZ RUN 3D Padded MTB cycling shorts). I hope this helps and keep us updated!

PS - I’ve read that the 105 and ultegra FRONT derailleurs work with our Tiagra. I wish Yamaha would’ve charged us another $500 for a 105 group set. But since Shimano only makes them in 11-speed now, maybe that wasn’t an option.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Thanks, I’ll buy them today!!

Just a note: the power output from the display is limited. Depending on what device you're hooking up to it, it may not charge it at all. My DJI Action Camera charges while recording. My GoPro Hero 9 will keep it's battery level but will not charge. My iPhone 11 Max Pro will recharge very slowly depending if the screen is on full bright, GPS, BT services on.

 

[Asher]

Sure thing Greydog, I live in San Diego so quite far from Twin Cities. I’d also like to upgrade the group set to the 105’s. But, I’ve heard the 105’s are now 11-speed and Yamaha says the Civante motor was programmed to work as a 10-speed. Changing the group set to an 11-speed wouldn’t align well with the power curve of the motor. I don’t know if that’s true or if that’s noticeable in the real world. The bike is too new for anyone to have tried this yet. I also think a pair of MTB shorts with padding will help with the numbness. Mountain bikers use them (something like the EZ RUN 3D Padded MTB cycling shorts). I hope this helps and keep us updated!

PS - I’ve read that the 105 and ultegra FRONT derailleurs work with our Tiagra. I wish Yamaha would’ve charged us another $500 for a 105 group set. But since Shimano only makes them in 11-speed now, maybe that wasn’t an option.

Drew at Yamaha said the ten speed is more durable. I'd read that 11 speeds are just as durable (at Cycling Tips), but that was for non ebike applications.

As for 105, you could also reach back to the 105 5700 (2 generations ago) which is 10 speed. Though maybe the new derailleur can do just 10 speeds?

Yamaha Civante e-road bike powers up as their first class 3 e-bike for the U.S.

Yamaha is far from new when it comes to e-bikes. They first designed frames and motor systems back in 1993. 27 years later, they’ve announced…

bikerumor.com

 

[Oski1997]

Drew at Yamaha said the ten speed is more durable. I'd read that 11 speeds are just as durable (at Cycling Tips), but that was for non ebike applications.

As for 105, you could also reach back to the 105 5700 (2 generations ago) which is 10 speed. Though maybe the new derailleur can do just 10 speeds?

Yamaha Civante e-road bike powers up as their first class 3 e-bike for the U.S.

Yamaha is far from new when it comes to e-bikes. They first designed frames and motor systems back in 1993. 27 years later, they’ve announced…

bikerumor.com

Wow, GREAT

 

[Greydog]

You can still find 105 10 speed gear. I have no interest in 11 spd. The 11 spd chains probably would not hold up to the torque. My interest in 105 is that the 105 Brifters shift better than Tiagra. A 105 rear derailleur also shifts a little smoother. The fronts are about the same. And a 105 or Ultegra crankset will be lighter than what ever is on the bike now, but I am not sure if they would work with the motor. The bottom bracket is a square taper and I don't believe 105 and higher gear use a square taper. I think that my best bet to lighten the bike is to go for a good road wheel set as I prefer narrow tires.

I will do some minor upgrades with the tires, pedals, seat post and stem for now and consider other changes in a year. I am really looking forward to riding and enjoying the bike. Major tinkering will be fun as I can do some of the work myself but it will have to wait.

Oski, I am jealous that you live in San Diego. It is one of my favorite places to visit. My brother lived in Seal Beach and my mother lived in Laguna Woods. I would fly out and visit 3 times a year. I would always wonder why I am living in frozen Minnesota and everyone is out biking or running in the middle of January in sunny California.

 

[Oski1997]

You can still find 105 10 speed gear. I have no interest in 11 spd. The 11 spd chains probably would not hold up to the torque. My interest in 105 is that the 105 Brifters shift better than Tiagra. A 105 rear derailleur also shifts a little smoother. The fronts are about the same. And a 105 or Ultegra crankset will be lighter than what ever is on the bike now, but I am not sure if they would work with the motor. The bottom bracket is a square taper and I don't believe 105 and higher gear use a square taper. I think that my best bet to lighten the bike is to go for a good road wheel set as I prefer narrow tires.

I will do some minor upgrades with the tires, pedals, seat post and stem for now and consider other changes in a year. I am really looking forward to riding and enjoying the bike. Major tinkering will be fun as I can do some of the work myself but it will have to wait.

Oski, I am jealous that you live in San Diego. It is one of my favorite places to visit. My brother lived in Seal Beach and my mother lived in Laguna Woods. I would fly out and visit 3 times a year. I would always wonder why I am living in frozen Minnesota and everyone is out biking or running in the middle of January in sunny California.

Lol - yes, we have one month of winter (January). But we can go cycling year-round. If you’re ever in San Diego, we should go on a ride. Btw - I also am considering the 105 for the smoother shifters and rear derailleur. I don’t mind the weight of the Tiagra crankset (I think the crankset would only save us 200g). I shouldn’t upgrade the derailleurs until they need to be replaced. But I’m impatient so we shall see lol

 

[Greydog]

I make it out to San Diego every 3-4 years. I would love to rent an Ebike and go riding with you Oski. What I would really like to do is take my bike out to Seattle and ride down the PCH to San Francisco.

 

[Oski1997]

I make it out to San Diego every 3-4 years. I would love to rent an Ebike and go riding with you Oski. What I would really like to do is take my bike out to Seattle and ride down the PCH to San Francisco.

Nice!

 

[Greydog]

Hey Oski, the crankset on the Civante is a SAMCX not a Tiagra. I went to the SAM website and cannot find any info on the crank. My bet is that a Shimano 105 crankset is going to be much lighter. You can still find 10 spd 105 double cranks for a little over $100. I emailed Yamaha to see if you can change the crank to a non square taper such as the 105. I would then change the cassette to a 10 spd 105 or Ultegra and upgrade to a 105 spd rear derailleur if they are compatible with the Tiagra Brifters which will eventually be replaced with 105 if I can. 105 really shifts smoother than Tiagra. My son has Tiagra Brifters and I find them to be not as crisp feeling as 105 shifts. Hopefully Yamaha will get back with me.

It is a beautiful day here today. I wish I had my Civante as I would go for a long ride. I guess I will have to take my current roadie for a spin.

 

[Greydog]

SAMCX? I've never heard of that brand before.

I like the old 10 speed system, but it's getting hard to find replacement parts for 10 speed.

I don't have my Civante yet, it is coming in 2 weeks but the pictures on the Yamaha web site of the bike shows a SAMCX or maybe it is SAMOX. It was hard to tell from the pictures. But the website log for SAMOX looks like SAMCX

Cranks - Samox

samox.com

 

[Oski1997]

Hey Oski, the crankset on the Civante is a SAMCX not a Tiagra. I went to the SAM website and cannot find any info on the crank. My bet is that a Shimano 105 crankset is going to be much lighter. You can still find 10 spd 105 double cranks for a little over $100. I emailed Yamaha to see if you can change the crank to a non square taper such as the 105. I would then change the cassette to a 10 spd 105 or Ultegra and upgrade to a 105 spd rear derailleur if they are compatible with the Tiagra Brifters which will eventually be replaced with 105 if I can. 105 really shifts smoother than Tiagra. My son has Tiagra Brifters and I find them to be not as crisp feeling as 105 shifts. Hopefully Yamaha will get back with me.

It is a beautiful day here today. I wish I had my Civante as I would go for a long ride. I guess I will have to take my current roadie for a spin.

Yeah, I think the crankset is proprietary??? Or it uses a specific shape for the motor. But I am interested in upgrading to 105s so keep me posted. Also, I’ve read that the Ultegra front derailleurs are compatible with the Tiagra group set. I’m looking into this. I was having a hard time shifting my front derailleurs but I’m getting the hang of it. I’m new to cycling so I think the front derailleurs just requires a little more finesse than the rear

 

[Oski1997]

The cranksets are interesting. I just looked up the Giant bikes that use the Yamaha motor and they appear to be custom and not standard Shimano/SRAM or other major brand. I wonder if you can use an off the shelf crank with the Yamaha motors.

Oski please update us here if you do change your crank.

Since the Yamaha/Giant cranksets seem to be a motor-specific propriety part, I’m not eager to upgrade it. I don’t think off the shelf Shimano/SRAMS were made for powerful ebikes. Especially not for our 28mph/70+ nm of torque Yamaha bikes. With time, I’m sure others will try it. I’ll let them be the guinea pigs lol haha