2020 Allant 8S - replace Smartphonehub with Nyon 21?

[Lowndes]

Sorry - This is a re-post from the Trek to the Bosch forum, where it should have been:
My Smartphonehub on my Allant 8s is all messed up. It's an ongoing issue. The wire connections and the mounts need replacing. I get frequent disconnects and as of yesterday it's unrideable. I'm wondering if it's time to switch hub types instead of getting another Smartphonehub.
The Nyon 21 retrofit looks great, and it's hard to locate. I'm in the USA, but have found it available in Canada. Before I spend the $400 + USD, I'm wondering about a couple things:

• Is there a difference between a Canadian Nyon21 and a USA version?
• Would a retrofit kit give me everything I need to hook it up to the 8S?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mulezen]

Use the search function…a number of members have upgraded to Nyon…Alaskan for example

 

[Alaskan]

I have no experience of knowledge as to if there is a difference between a Canadian Nyon and a USA Nyon. I suspect not.

I do know there are upgrade kits that are complete with handlebar mount and cable to the battery along with left hand controller and display and others that are less complete. Best to wait till tomorrow when @William - Bosch Team are back at work. I am someone from the team will help you sort it out with reliable and accurate info.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Sorry - This is a re-post from the Trek to the Bosch forum, where it should have been:
My Smartphonehub on my Allant 8s is all messed up. It's an ongoing issue. The wire connections and the mounts need replacing. I get frequent disconnects and as of yesterday it's unrideable. I'm wondering if it's time to switch hub types instead of getting another Smartphonehub.
The Nyon 21 retrofit looks great, and it's hard to locate. I'm in the USA, but have found it available in Canada. Before I spend the $400 + USD, I'm wondering about a couple things:

• Is there a difference between a Canadian Nyon21 and a USA version?
• Would a retrofit kit give me everything I need to hook it up to the 8S?

Thanks in advance.

I'm sorry to hear you are having an ongoing issue. If you are willing, I'd like to learn more about what is going on as frequent disconnects are usually not related to displays. In other words, it would be good to make sure we are fixing the right thing on your eBike. Additionally, whatever the issue is, you should not have to pay out of pocket for a fix if you are still under warranty. Even if you are going to replace the SPH regardless, you should at least come away with a fully operational unit that you can sell.

Have you been working with a shop on this disconnect issue? If so, can you provide the shop name? (PM if you'd prefer)

To answer your question: The Nyon aftermarket kit is a NA part, so Canada and the US use the exact same SKU. That being said, QBP is showing at least (9) in-stock this morning. If you want one, it may be good to call your favorite local bike shop ASAP and get one on order. In addition to the kit, you'll need the cable that runs to the DU. Luckily, this is the same cable that your SPH is currently using, though we should me mindful of defects if you think there is an issue with your SPH.

 

[Lowndes]

I'm sorry to hear you are having an ongoing issue. If you are willing, I'd like to learn more about what is going on as frequent disconnects are usually not related to displays. In other words, it would be good to make sure we are fixing the right thing on your eBike. Additionally, whatever the issue is, you should not have to pay out of pocket for a fix if you are still under warranty. Even if you are going to replace the SPH regardless, you should at least come away with a fully operational unit that you can sell.

Have you been working with a shop on this disconnect issue? If so, can you provide the shop name? (PM if you'd prefer)

To answer your question: The Nyon aftermarket kit is a NA part, so Canada and the US use the exact same SKU. That being said, QBP is showing at least (9) in-stock this morning. If you want one, it may be good to call your favorite local bike shop ASAP and get one on order. In addition to the kit, you'll need the cable that runs to the DU. Luckily, this is the same cable that your SPH is currently using, though we should me mindful of defects if you think there is an issue with your SPH.

PMing you now

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I didn’t see a definitive answer. I also have a 2021 Trek Allant 8s and I’m curious about swapping the Smartphonehub for the Nyon. I just don’t like the the cobi.bike app, and don’t like using a phone. The Nyon looks great, but if I were to buy a new Nyon head unit and mount, can I simply swap the Smartphonehub for the Nyon without having to take it to my LBS to have it installed? The previous post by @William - Bosch Team seemed to imply that all the wiring is shared, but I want to verify that before making any sort of purchase.

 

[Alaskan]

I swapped out the new Nyon for the Smartphone Hub when I bought my Allant 9.9S The Nyon uses the same wiring as the Kiox which is different from the SMH cable. In order to do a proper job of Prouting the cable so it does not get pinched or interfere with the many wires, cables and hoses that pass down the down tube over the top of the motor, etc it is likely and advisable in any event, that you should drop the motor to assure a clean installation. This is something that should be done at your LBS to preserve the warranty on your bike. It takes an hour of shop time at the most.

Nyon is so far superior to SPH. You will be glad you went to the trouble and expense of making this change.

 

[BlackHand]

I swapped out the new Nyon for the Smartphone Hub when I bought my Allant 9.9S The Nyon uses the same wiring as the Kiox which is different from the SMH cable. In order to do a proper job of Prouting the cable so it does not get pinched or interfere with the many wires, cables and hoses that pass down the down tube over the top of the motor, etc it is likely and advisable in any event, that you should drop the motor to assure a clean installation. This is something that should be done at your LBS to preserve the warranty on your bike. It takes an hour of shop time at the most.

Nyon is so far superior to SPH. You will be glad you went to the trouble and expense of making this change.

????. According to this post and picture they are the same:

bosch nyon 2021 release date

If I had to pay for custom assist modes with a Specialized or a Giant e-bike... I guess I’m a bit confused why it’s my tree you’re barking up on this topic. I’m not exactly a fan that Bosch did it this way, and I’m not interested enough in custom assist modes to shell out the 5$ for it either...

electricbikereview.com

Finding a retrofit kit might be the hard part right now. Head units are easy to find but then you have to source all the mounting pieces.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Hello @SQUIDwarrior!

Kiox, SPH, and new Nyon all use the same (2) wiring components (handlebar remote, and connection to DU.) A swap between any of these (3) displays should be relatively simple at the handlebars, assuming clearance for the new mount, etc. Each display has their own mount, but the same (2) cables will connect to the back.

Our official recommendation is that the dealer does a software update after installation of any new parts, as it ensures all hardware is running on the same version.

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

Great, thanks for the confirmation @William - Bosch Team ! I’m glad the systems are interchangeable as that really improves user choice. Retrofit kits do seem to be rather scarce but I think I can get all the parts separately.

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

FYI @William - Bosch Team i was able to source all the parts for the Nyon separately. It was an easy swap. So far, I am liking it much, MUCH better than the cobi app and SPH. Thanks for the help!

 

[retiredNH]

It's such a shame bike brands foist such a substandard piece of gear like the SPH on purchasers. Maybe the brand decision makers aren't riders and fall for a sales pitch?

I'd be looking at spending $800-1000 to convert our two bikes, given shop time costs in this area. Who has that money lying around?

 

[Alaskan]

It's such a shame bike brands foist such a substandard piece of gear like the SPH on purchasers. Maybe the brand decision makers aren't riders and fall for a sales pitch?

I'd be looking at spending $800-1000 to convert our two bikes, given shop time costs in this area. Who has that money lying around?

Or maybe companies respond to consumer demand that is poorly thought out, misinformed or coming from inexperienced riders.

People want their phones to do it all. They figure as long as they have bought a candy bar with a cpu and a bright, shiny touch screen, that every device maker should use that as a means of control and display for everything..."there's an app for that"

Having spent a lifetime as a professional mariner, I found out long ago the devices specifically designed for a limited function, that are not being called on to play music, serve as communicators, cameras, gaming devices, etc are more stable, robust, less prone to driver conflicts, port issues, etc.

In the world of marine electronics, if your life depends on it, if you want less conflict and failure, a dedicated purpose designed electronic navigation device is the way to go rather than doing everything with a mac or pc. If you want to make sure your nav system does not go all blue screen of death just as you are crossing a dangerous bar, in rough weather on an outgoing tide, get a real chart plotter. Don't port a GPS into your computer and buy potentially glitchy software that might not play well with others.

Few computers were built to endure the constant shock of a boat pounding in heavy seas and few phones were designed to take the jarring and vibration that washboard pavement or gravel and rock strew trails transmit up through the forks and into the handlebars of a bike. And we all know about how installing a new app can make all the others on your computer start slowing down or crash the system and fail to work altogether.

Using a phone to display and control your bike sounds good on paper but is fundamentally a bad idea IMO. That is why I changed out the SPH for a Nyon before I even rode my Allant 9.9S.

 

[retiredNH]

Alaskan, good points. But even Bosch seems to have abandoned the SPH, at least with regard to improvements. It will be interesting to see how much longer companies like Trek stick with the dog.

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

The SPH could have been great if more effort had been put into the app and mounting systems. Ebike Connect and Cobi should have been merged into a single app, or at a minimum the eBike Connect app should work with SPH hardware so that you gain those features. The unreliable spring-loaded clamp should have been replaced with a more robust system.

At this point, it’s obvious that Bosch (rightly) decided to scrap the mismatched collection of hardware and software, and focus solely on the next gen design with the “Smart” line and the Flow app. Launching that with the Kiox makes sense because it is a solid, proven platform and sheds some of complexity that comes with the Nyon. I hope they are building a new ecosystem from this such that eventually all new Bosch motors work with the new app and hardware, and the only difference for the consumer is cost.

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

Alaskan, good points. But even Bosch seems to have abandoned the SPH, at least with regard to improvements. It will be interesting to see how much longer companies like Trek stick with the dog.

I suspect the next iteration of Trek bikes will drop the SPH in favor of the new system, though it’s going to be interesting to see what they do considering only the new CX motor is supported.

As much as a love my Allant, looking at how much more seamless Specialized bikes are WRT the eBike components makes me a bit jealous.

 

[retiredNH]

Every time I think I have cobi.bike mastered - all of the quirks figured out - new ones pop out. Today's ride introduced the following:
- I planned out a route for today's ride that avoided a numbered road (quite busy, narrow and winding. terrible for biking) and instead used several local unpaved roads (slow, lightly trafficked, very scenic, perfect for a bike). Planned it in Komoot. Uploaded to cobi.bike. Started the ride, and saw that cobi.bike wanted me to take the busy road anyway. ??? Makes me realize you can't even do offline planning with a preferred, safer route and expect cobi.bike to follow your route. Makes it's navi close to useless.
- Stranger yet, if you're in the fitness screen, say monitoring your cadence, power and heart rate, navigation is off. The mileage indicator in the upper left doesn't even update. You need to exit the fitness screen to see your remaining mileage or hear direction prompts. Yes, even the audio prompts are off when you show the fitness screen.

Let me summarize: what a terrible app. If I could afford it, I'd dump it tomorrow...but the cost for two bikes is too much right now. Bosch should offer its SPH victims a discount on an upgrade to a functioning device.

 

[Lowndes]

Using a phone to display and control your bike sounds good on paper but is fundamentally a bad idea IMO. That is why I changed out the SPH for a Nyon before I even rode my Allant 9.9S.

I remember you saying this before, back when I still had my SPH. I saw a screenshot of your online dashboard on eBike Connect you posted from your Nyon. I couldn't get that level of detail on my COBI app. I was jealous.

Sept 2020 I was on a damp wooden bridge with an oncoming truck getting ready to pass me when my phone popped out and bounced across into the oncoming lane. My phone needed an elastic band to hold my Google Nexus in place, but I had forgotten to strap it in. I slammed on the brakes went down and broke some bones, the phone, and the SPH mount. That ended my 2020 riding.

I remembered your post, so I sourced the Nyon in Canada at Scooteretti- $542 delivered . I had it installed this past May and have never looked back.

• The unit clicks into the mount and is sturdy. No worries of anything flying off.
• The reports about my rides are fantastic and highly detailed.
• The configurable software display, and the physical screen resolution is amazing.
• The electric motor lock is a cool concept. If someone steals the bike, I'll have some bittersweet satisfaction knowing they won't be able to use the motor.
• The programable assist levels are fun to play with.

Overall, it was well worth the $$$.

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

Did my first long ride with the Nyon today and I am much happier. The navigation was actually pretty good (used a Komoot route I planned) and it rerouted just fine the few times I went on a slightly different path. The route planning itself is kinda crap, but I was already using Komoot for that so no real change there. The screen is also brighter and easier to see in full sun, and I LOVE that I can make my own screens! It just feels really polished and solid. I kinda wish the mount was slightly less bulky, but it’s fine. I am quite happy with my choice to upgrade.

 

[Johnny]

Paying $500+ for a device which is far inferior to a smartphone just because it has a better the mounting interface should not be justified in any way. There is absolutely no reason why cobi can not work as well and be as functional as nyon.

The reason why phones pop out of the holder seems like a design flaw, Cobi being buggy is also something that should have been fixed a long time ago. If bosch is not doing anything to fix it then it is intentional, stop sugar coating it. Maybe the Bosch representative here should get in touch with Bosch to fix this issue.

Reliability is an application specific concept. NASA uses a 20+ year old cpu in its Mars explorer because it has to endure very harsh conditions and that ancient chip has the best reliability for such conditions, but does it mean that it should be used for ebikes too? Of course not. There are many people who secure their phones to their handlebars properly and ride everyday without an incident hence I am not buying that argument for ebikes.