Thanks, I had checked it out but I wasn't sure how accurate it was. I'll check it out agin@Sum1 If you are not already aware of the Bosch Range Estimator, it is a very useful tool to plan rides. It is remarkably accurate if you put in the correct specifications Beware GIGO (garbage in - garbage out)
eBike range calculator for Bosch drive systems - Bosch eBike - Bosch eBike Systems
Use the eBike range calculator for Bosch drive systems to plan out your next ride.www.bosch-ebike.com
D
Deleted member 18083
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2020 Homage Revealed …
Website links…
Website links…
- Australia
- Canada
- United Kingdom
- United States
- Gen2 Bosch Performance Line CX
- Red as well as so-called blue
- Super Moto-X tyres as standard
- GX upgrade – Rock Razors, Ergon GP3 grips with bar ends, Ergon saddle, wider pedals
- Prices are slightly higher; for example, the 2020 Homage, essentially unchanged compared with my 2019 model, has risen by around AU$500 (not much on a AU$12,000 ebike).
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D
Deleted member 18083
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Break-in period for Rohloff …
From Wikipedia:
This seems to be a fair summary of what is generally acknowledged to be the case; however, I haven't noticed any change during the nine months that I have been riding my Homage.
Does the Bosch CX—Gates Carbon Drive—E-14 combination eliminate, or simply subdue, the noise and vibrations?
From Wikipedia:
Rohloff hubs generally require a break-in period to function optimally. The manufacturer suggests this may require 800–1600 km of active riding. For some riders the break-in period may be longer. Until the hub is broken in the rider may experience some noise or vibrations when the reduction-gear is in operation (gears 1–7).
This seems to be a fair summary of what is generally acknowledged to be the case; however, I haven't noticed any change during the nine months that I have been riding my Homage.
Does the Bosch CX—Gates Carbon Drive—E-14 combination eliminate, or simply subdue, the noise and vibrations?
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D
Deleted member 18083
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Flat batteries …
It happened. I ran the batteries flat.
Odometer : 10,414 km
It happened. I ran the batteries flat.
- Pedal assist ceased.
- Lights remained on.
- Rohloff E-14 continued to operate.
Odometer : 10,414 km
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David Roy
Well-Known Member
My Homage is set up the same as yours. Initially gear 7 was quite noisy. Noisy enough that I avoided using it. Of course that meant that I often found it was just the gear I wanted to use. Now, 3000 miles later I have to really listen to hear a difference.
For me the break in was real with the Rohloff getting smoother and quieter as the miles added up. I’m sure part of that is that I’ve also gotten “broken in” and improved my riding technique over the miles.
Does anyone know where there may be info regarding how much reserve exactly Bosch leaves for lights and E14, i've heard it's 3% of battery for lights without E14 and 5% for lights & E14 with E14.
And how many gear shifts you could possibly get with say 5% of 1000Wh.
I'm curious as i will upgrade my R&M someday but will have no choice but to have E14 and if i'm out bush and the batteries have been exhausted, and there's no charging option available for say a day or more, it would be a pain not being able to shift gears.
D
Deleted member 18083
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One year and 14,000 km on …
After a year of riding my Homage, it is time to take stock.
Riese & Müller's Homage is an ebike that stands apart. You need to be daring to choose a Homage but you will be rewarded. Its extraordinary design has evolved year-by-year since before R&M first fitted an electric motor to a bicycle. It is rugged, dependable, comfortable and – this is where it differs from its sibling, the Delite – not too difficult to climb aboard.
Control Technology (full suspension designed for touring and everyday riding), Gates Carbon Drive and Rohloff E-14 have worked flawlessly. The dual battery arrangement makes the Homage more of a step-across ebike than a step-through, but that trade-off is acceptable to me. I appreciate being able to pack an additional PowerPack 500 in my Ortlieb E-Mate pannier, too.
Genuinely serious faults – not just quibbles for the sake of saying 'nothing is perfect'? Most definitely!
Overall Assessment : 4 stars (out of 5).
After a year of riding my Homage, it is time to take stock.
Riese & Müller's Homage is an ebike that stands apart. You need to be daring to choose a Homage but you will be rewarded. Its extraordinary design has evolved year-by-year since before R&M first fitted an electric motor to a bicycle. It is rugged, dependable, comfortable and – this is where it differs from its sibling, the Delite – not too difficult to climb aboard.
Control Technology (full suspension designed for touring and everyday riding), Gates Carbon Drive and Rohloff E-14 have worked flawlessly. The dual battery arrangement makes the Homage more of a step-across ebike than a step-through, but that trade-off is acceptable to me. I appreciate being able to pack an additional PowerPack 500 in my Ortlieb E-Mate pannier, too.
Genuinely serious faults – not just quibbles for the sake of saying 'nothing is perfect'? Most definitely!
- The clearance between the supplied Rock Razors and the rear mudguard is ridiculously tight.
- The pannier rack is not durable; the paint rubs off and the metal is easily worn.
- The Kiox coupled with its companion app can be summed up in a single word, rubbish. Hang your heads in shame, Bosch.
Overall Assessment : 4 stars (out of 5).
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Stefan Mikes
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- Mazovia, Poland
David, I consider buying an R&M e-bike in some distant future (that is, when I will be able to afford it). Please tell me one thing: What is your practical experience with the 25 km/h restriction? You have covered terrific distances on your Homage. How does it practically feel to be restricted? I mean practically.
Will R&M provide Homage with Smartphone Hub?
Are there any other R&M e-bikes with dual battery?
These questions are theoretical yet. R&M do not even have a dealership in Poland yet.
Will R&M provide Homage with Smartphone Hub?
Are there any other R&M e-bikes with dual battery?
These questions are theoretical yet. R&M do not even have a dealership in Poland yet.
D
Deleted member 18083
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Stefan …
I usually ride in Tour #2 assist mode and quite often in eMTB #3. In these modes I seldom push beyond 25 km/h other than with wind or gravity assist. My Trek Powerfly 5 hardtail eMTB (same Bosch Performance Line CX motor) has the same speed restrictions but feels livelier. Maybe, this is apparent rather than actual as recorded speeds are much the same.
My speed is typically around 23–24 km/h on the level, so I'm not really being hampered by the speed restriction. (If I'm right in my interpretation of EU regulations, power fades away between 25 and 27km/h.)
Apart showing from the slow speeds at which I ride, the screenshot from the Bosch eBikeConnect app illustrates how records of rides are chopped into random pieces with no possibility of joining them together again! Avoid Kiox; it's worse than dreadful.
Interestingly, my first ebike had a Kalkhoff Impulse motor which I left in Turbo #4 almost all of the time and it ran consistently between 25 and 27 km/h. (Pity about the other issues with that motor!) Maybe, I should try that approach with the Homage (or just pedal with the gusto of a few years ago!).
What I'd really like to experience is riding an ebike in New Zealand where, as far as I know, there are no speed restrictions whatever on power assist; just obey the general speed limit and don't install a motor exceeding 300 W continuous.
Yes: Superdelite, Homage, Supercharger 2, Charger Mixte, Nevo, Load, Packster.
The Charger Mixte is an interesting ebike as it offers DualBattery and step-through.
Presumably 'yes' when the Homage's motor is upgraded to Gen 4; also, we wait in hope for the Smartphone Hub to become compatible with Rohloff's E-14 (applies to all models).
… David
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Stefan Mikes
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Thank you very much David!
Jay Kay
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- New Zealand
@Stefan Mikes The latest Homages produced have the smartphone hub as an option, but not with the E14 shift/Rohloff.
My wife’s Homage Vario reaches 27km and then cuts out, but usually at that speed you will probably be going downhill and won’t notice it cutting out. Like David, my wife (and I when I ride her bike - it is such a comfortable riding position!) rarely exceeds 25km. we ride for pleasure rather than for commuting or exercise/training.
@David Berry correct regarding NZ - a power rather than a speed approach but I understand this may be being reviewed by the transport agency of government.
My wife and I ride quite a bit of hilly country (sometimes where turbo is needed just to get up them) on forest trails etc, and after around 2hrs of riding and approximately 40km distance my single battery Delite will be on around 10% battery remaining. My wife, who is 30kg lighter than me will have around 25% remaining. Despite my bike having the more powerful Gen 4 motor compared to her Gen 2 motor, she drags me off with ease, on the flat or up hills. Weight is a major determanent (more than I thought) for ebikes and how fast and far they go. I am 88kg.
My wife’s Homage Vario reaches 27km and then cuts out, but usually at that speed you will probably be going downhill and won’t notice it cutting out. Like David, my wife (and I when I ride her bike - it is such a comfortable riding position!) rarely exceeds 25km. we ride for pleasure rather than for commuting or exercise/training.
@David Berry correct regarding NZ - a power rather than a speed approach but I understand this may be being reviewed by the transport agency of government.
My wife and I ride quite a bit of hilly country (sometimes where turbo is needed just to get up them) on forest trails etc, and after around 2hrs of riding and approximately 40km distance my single battery Delite will be on around 10% battery remaining. My wife, who is 30kg lighter than me will have around 25% remaining. Despite my bike having the more powerful Gen 4 motor compared to her Gen 2 motor, she drags me off with ease, on the flat or up hills. Weight is a major determanent (more than I thought) for ebikes and how fast and far they go. I am 88kg.
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Stefan Mikes
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- Mazovia, Poland
What exactly model is that, the Gen 4 one?
You are right weight matters but for low speeds and/or uphill. Aerodynamic drag is dominating at higher speeds. (I am 107 kg. My bikes/batteries tolerate my weight but do not tolerate speed, especially upwind).
You say you and your wife ride for pleasure and the speed is not crucial for you. Noted.
What is this with those small chainrings on most of R&M/Bosch bikes? Do you need to pedal vigorously to get onto decent speed?
I have read that Smartphone Hub cannot be used in case of ABS braking system. Pity. Having the ABS would be a luxury.
If I ever buy an R&M e-bike, I think I would go for a chain/derailleur solution: these can be serviced by any LBS.
Thank you again (and Dave, too) for your answers!
Jay Kay
Well-Known Member
- Region
- New Zealand
True regarding wind drag. I hate head winds!
I have the Delite Vario, so a belt driven internal hub set up = close to zero maintenance. My bike has a full sized chain ring which I think all Gen 4 Bosch fitted models have?
I can’t comment on the ABS system.
Here’s to you owning an R&M sometime soon!
D
Deleted member 18083
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Agreed. There is no sign of wear on my Gates Carbon Drive belt. When the Homage goes in for its next service (probably after another 3000 km) the Rohloff will have an oil change.
Stefan Mikes
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- Europe
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- Mazovia, Poland
14000 km on the belt drive and no wear? Wow! Very impressive. I might reconsider my views.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
After a year of riding my 2019 Homage Rohloff HS, I mostly concur with David. It is a supremely comfortable and capable bike. I have one negative to add to David's list. The bike is very heavy. I am reminded of this every time I ride as I have to carry it up six steps from the basement where I park the bike (we have no garage). In fairness, I do think the weight contributes to the superb stability of the ride this bike provides.
- As I replaced the stock fenders with custom made walnut wood fenders, which I installed with greater clearance from the tires, I eliminated David's first gripe.
- I share his displeasure at the poor quality of the paint job. It chips easily, shows every flaw and no touch up paint is made available by R&M, In fact it has been over three month since I asked dealer to get the paint color formula from them so we could mix up some paint and still no luck.
- Fortunately I am a big fan of the Nyon so I ordered my Homage with the Intuvia and immediately installed the Nyon. I am not sure whether to blame Bosch or all of us for wanting yet another shiny new object. Bosch should have expanded to global support for the Nyon and just stuck with a full spectrum, display that works.
I have had two warranty issues:
- First was a loud creaking noise that took too long to identify and turned out to be a known issue with a design flaw in the rear swing arm that required a special tool to slightly expand the frame so that the mounting points where it meets the seat post were more open. R&M had to create a special tool to press the frame that had to be shipped around the USA on a first come first served basis. Aggravating but fixed without recurrence.
- The second issue is being resolved currently. My Rohloff has developed an oil leak into the axle of the hub where the skewer passes through. The oil has seeped out, covered the mech and has traveled out from the middle of the brake rotor coming dangerously close to the braking surface. It was shipped down to Cycle Monkey, the US Rohloff service company in California.
I also have a 2018 Delight Mountain with the Shimano 11 speed. It has the Fox suspension upgrade and has a CX motor which I derestricted using the Bikespeed RS. Both bikes have Nyon displays and have been fitted with adjustable angle, Ergotech stems. The Homage is my get around town, errand bike as well as the long touring ride bike...it's my big cushy sedan. The Delight is the bike I use on group rides with my roady friends. It is peppy and more athletic, delivering on the need for speed...It's my sports car. Between the two of them, my actual car is now fueled up every six weeks or so, mostly used with the rack to carry my bikes around for riding further afield. Truth be told, with the bitter cold and snow of the last 10 days it is getting used way more than usual. I put more miles on my bike this past year than I did on the car, and that includes a 3,000 trip hauling my bike to California and back.
In a week we will to load up our bikes and leave, the dark, cold windy Northwest on another trip down to California. This time Nancy is joining me. We are going to visit dear friends in Oregon, ride the Redwoods, visit with our friends at LA Fly Rides, meet up with Chris Nolte in Long Beach, visit with another good friend in La Jolla, that I first got to know here on this forum, and connect face to face with another EBR friend in Santa Cruz on the way back north. In total we will be gone almost three weeks.
If someone told me three years ago that I would be spending my retirement riding and obsessed with ebikes, I would have laughed in their face. I am now coming up on two years riding an ebike. It has been a journey restoring health and vitality, making new friends and discovering a surprising, fun, healthy and joyful new chapter in my life.
Stefan Mikes
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- Mazovia, Poland
I am sure you can answer my questions, @Alaskan.
You derestricted the chain version of the Delight. As far as I can understand, the Bosch chainring has relatively few teeth. What do you do to achieve a good speed without very high cadence?
How is Bikespeed RS actually installed? Complicated or not?
You derestricted the chain version of the Delight. As far as I can understand, the Bosch chainring has relatively few teeth. What do you do to achieve a good speed without very high cadence?
How is Bikespeed RS actually installed? Complicated or not?
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
Stefan, It is installed by removing the left crank, taking off the left side of the plastic motor housing, there are three cable plug removed from the motor and plugged into pigtail sockets on the dongle and two pigtails plugged from the dongle into the motor. Double back tape is used to secure the dongle on the side of the motor. It is activated by pushing down/up, down/up on the assist mode selector. When it engages the battery indicator goes from one bar to five and then to the actual battery level. When turned off it goes from five bars to one, returning to the actual level.
here is a link to the installation and users manual https://www.bikespeed.de/Anleitungen/bikespeed_RS_Einbauanleitung_EN.pdf
The bike came with a 15 tooth chain ring. In order to take advantage of the added speed, I put an 16 tooth ring which was not enough. I ended up with an 18 tooth Sram. The Delight chain ring is offset to the right, The Sram comes with a spacer ring that slips over the drive spline first, offsetting the machined ring, which can be flipped over to provide a longer life. In order to recover the hill climbing ability, I went from the 11-42 cassette that came with the bike to an 11-46 tooth cassette. The end result was totatally satisfactory...a lively, peppy bike that provides assist up to whatever speed you can pedal. I have had the bike going down a long 4% grade and still been pushing and engaged on the crank at 42 miles per hour, at a cadence of 115. On flat ground, I can hit 31mph but not for long. At 25-27 mph my cadence is 85 which I can sustain for 6-8 miles for a twenty minute sprint.
Stefan Mikes
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- Mazovia, Poland
Bosch gen 2 motors turn sprocket 2.5 times your cadence. 18t is the equivalent of 45t for Bosch.
