HaveBlue
Member
Hydraulic disc brakes are self adjusting. Cable disc brakes are not. A friend has the Izip Dash, she almost crashed due to the cable disc brakes coming out of adjustment. It seemed to happen quite suddenly, according to her.
2015 Izip Dash vs 2016 Juiced CrossCurrent
- Thread starter Denverthane
- Start date
Stephen Cho
New Member
How much is the closeout price? I saw a 2015 model for $2200. I would just get the CC and with the extra $$$ you save add a shareroller kit. You'll be doing 28mph uphill.
That doesnt' wash. Hydraulic more likely to leave you stranded or without brakes.
If you don't replace the fluid enough your disk brakes can lock up tight as a if you were squeezing hard. You can also loose a connection and fluid and ALL your brake involved.
Mech, cable disc brakes are safer.
HaveBlue
Member
I've had hydraulic brakes on a number of bikes and have never had a failure. A friend of mine almost crashed due to her cable disc brakes coming out of adjustment. Cable disc brakes are probably fine if you keep them adjusted, but there is a reason Currie went with hydraulic on the 2016's.
Maybe I'll change my mind when my Neo Carbon's hydraulic brakes mess up. But it hasn't happened yet!
I've had it on 2 and one of them locked up both brakes solid after the bike wasn't ridden for 4 or 5 months. Wouldn't release even pushing the caliper pistion back in. Currie went with hydraulics for the same reason almost everyone else did:
Marketing ;0)
You do understand that both use exactly the same parts to stop the bike? That the only difference is one is actuated by a mechanical movement of a cable versus hydraulic fluid pushed by a master cyl. BOTH systems push a piston (hydraulically!) out of the caliper that pushes a brake pad against a metal rotor attached to the wheel.
You get a little better feel out of the hydaulic, but mechanical work JUST FINE.
Marketing ;0)
You do understand that both use exactly the same parts to stop the bike? That the only difference is one is actuated by a mechanical movement of a cable versus hydraulic fluid pushed by a master cyl. BOTH systems push a piston (hydraulically!) out of the caliper that pushes a brake pad against a metal rotor attached to the wheel.
You get a little better feel out of the hydaulic, but mechanical work JUST FINE.
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I've had it on 2 and one of them locked up both brakes solid after the bike wasn't ridden for 4 or 5 months. Wouldn't release even pushing the caliper pistion back in. Currie went with hydraulics for the same reason almost everyone else did:
Marketing ;0)
You do understand that both use exactly the same parts to stop the bike? That the only difference is one is actuated by a mechanical movement of a cable versus hydraulic fluid pushed by a master cyl. BOTH systems push a piston (hydraulically!) out of the caliper that pushes a brake pad against a metal rotor attached to the wheel.
You get a little better feel out of the hydaulic, but mechanical work JUST FINE.
WHat does that really mean: " almost crashed due to brakes coming out of adjustment"????
Yes there was a problem. Cable brakes work just fine, they wouldn't be the predominant brake system if they didn't work well.
Edit: They DO have adjustments and they do need an occasional tweak (usually tightening a stretching cable) and could get bad if un attended, but then so can hydraulic.
2- I'm not suggest hydraulic aren't an "upgrade" in most peoples mind. They are more expensive for one and they can clamp harder because the master cyl applies hydraulic pressure as with a car. But because of the much lighter weight and slower speeds of a bike versus car, they aren't "needed" unless you regularly cruise at high speed. (JMO)
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KenM.
Active Member
Maybe the screw that holds the cable tight on the caliper arm loosened up a little and let the cable slip!
I have over 3,500 miles on the GenZe 101 Sport, and never had the brakes go out of adjustment so bad I could not stop whenever I needed to.
Just keep everything all tightened up good . Hope this helps you and your friend .
Keep looking up! Ken.
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
We've had to do several hydraulic disc brake bleed jobs after bikes sat for months unridden or were stored in a lot of heat, so they're not infallible. Avid had a run of H. brakes with problems right out of production; new design solved that but it's a challenge to use or do any roadside repair if a master cylinder breaks. With a mechanical disc brake system adjustments are easy on the road and there are different compounds for mechanical disc brake pads to accommodate different riding conditions or for longer wear. Pluses for both designs.
Denverthane
New Member
Hi, Besides the hydraulic vs. mechanical disk brakes, did you notice any other differences in performance between the two bikes? For example, power, acceleration, ability to maintain high speeds? I suppose the CrossCurrent makes a bit more noise than the Dash due to the geared vs. gearless motor? Any preference looks wise?
Cameron Newland
Well-Known Member
I've had it on 2 and one of them locked up both brakes solid after the bike wasn't ridden for 4 or 5 months. Wouldn't release even pushing the caliper pistion back in. Currie went with hydraulics for the same reason almost everyone else did:
Marketing ;0)
You do understand that both use exactly the same parts to stop the bike? That the only difference is one is actuated by a mechanical movement of a cable versus hydraulic fluid pushed by a master cyl. BOTH systems push a piston (hydraulically!) out of the caliper that pushes a brake pad against a metal rotor attached to the wheel.
You get a little better feel out of the hydaulic, but mechanical work JUST FINE.
I'm not so sure that I agree. I have mechanical disc brakes and the brake cable stretches and I have to adjust it every 250-500 miles. If I don't, my braking performance will suffer, especially in emergency situations. Granted, with hydraulic brake lines, you'll have to bleed the brakes every so often, too, but I imagine that it's be less often (unless you live somewhere where your brake lines will freeze!).
Also, I find that even when my brake cable is properly adjusted and my pads are new and everything is adjusted properly, I get less stopping power with mechanical discs than I do with hydraulic discs. The modulation seems different. I can still modulate braking with hydraulic discs, but I seem to get more braking power than with mechanical discs.
I recently test-rode a Kalkhoff Integrale with hydraulic disc brakes and tried out some heavy braking just to see how it'd perform. I accidentally locked up the rear tire under heavy braking, and I didn't intend to do this. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is entirely subjective. Obviously, you wouldn't want to lock up a tire under heavy braking while cornering, but you wouldn't want to have too little braking force in an emergency situation, either. With my 2015 IZIP E3 Dash with mechanical disc brakes, I can't lock up/skid the rear tire even if I try. I know that in some states, there are laws that state that bicycles must not only have a brake, but that they must be able to skid the rear tire to show that their brakes work. Neither my road bike with caliper/rim brakes and 23C road tires nor my ebike with mechanical discs and 47C tires is able to skid on either tire. Perhaps my tires just have too much grip?
I'm solidly on the hydraulic disc train, and it's not due to the marketing. It's due to the braking power and braking feel, which I feel is not only superior to the feel of my mechanical discs, but is also confidence-inspiring.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Agree with @Cameron Newland here.
If you're just riding casually, then mechanical brakes are often enough. If you're commuting on a E-bike that tends to go 20+ mph, you most certainly want hydro brakes. Cars don't expect you to move so fast and I have had many close calls while commuting. It's luck and good brakes that has saved me. A little extra is good but poor brakes on a high speed S-pedelec is asking for trouble.
Also, bleeding once a year is more than enough if you're on the road majority of the time. If you're riding on dirt trails and carry all the guck/mud then perhaps bleeding once every season may be necessary.
If you're just riding casually, then mechanical brakes are often enough. If you're commuting on a E-bike that tends to go 20+ mph, you most certainly want hydro brakes. Cars don't expect you to move so fast and I have had many close calls while commuting. It's luck and good brakes that has saved me. A little extra is good but poor brakes on a high speed S-pedelec is asking for trouble.
Also, bleeding once a year is more than enough if you're on the road majority of the time. If you're riding on dirt trails and carry all the guck/mud then perhaps bleeding once every season may be necessary.
HaveBlue
Member
Honestly, I have limited time on both bikes. The Dash will hit 28+ mph pretty easily. I didn't get to test out the speed of the Crosscurrent due to my limited test ride. The torque sensing was very natural though, better than my Neo Carbon.
Jack Tyler
Active Member
To return for a moment to the OP's Q:
"Any thoughts on which to choose: a close out price on a 2015 Dash, with 500w gearless hub motor and 8.7 ah battery vs 2016 CrossCurrent, with 350w geared hub motor and 10.4 ah battery, for about the same price?"
One of my first thoughts, which I don't remember seeing elsewhere in the thread, was the age of the Dash's battery and how it's been treated. Which in part takes us to the supplier (LBS?) of the Dash and what efforts they made to keep the battery bank healthy. Potential performance differences aside, I'd prefer the CC in April with its fresh battery bank.
"Any thoughts on which to choose: a close out price on a 2015 Dash, with 500w gearless hub motor and 8.7 ah battery vs 2016 CrossCurrent, with 350w geared hub motor and 10.4 ah battery, for about the same price?"
One of my first thoughts, which I don't remember seeing elsewhere in the thread, was the age of the Dash's battery and how it's been treated. Which in part takes us to the supplier (LBS?) of the Dash and what efforts they made to keep the battery bank healthy. Potential performance differences aside, I'd prefer the CC in April with its fresh battery bank.
I'm not so sure that I agree. I have mechanical disc brakes and the brake cable stretches and I have to adjust it every 250-500 miles. If I don't, my braking performance will suffer, especially in emergency situations. Granted, with hydraulic brake lines, you'll have to bleed the brakes every so often, too, but I imagine that it's be less often (unless you live somewhere where your brake lines will freeze!).
Also, I find that even when my brake cable is properly adjusted and my pads are new and everything is adjusted properly, I get less stopping power with mechanical discs than I do with hydraulic discs. The modulation seems different. I can still modulate braking with hydraulic discs, but I seem to get more braking power than with mechanical discs.
I recently test-rode a Kalkhoff Integrale with hydraulic disc brakes and tried out some heavy braking just to see how it'd perform. I accidentally locked up the rear tire under heavy braking, and I didn't intend to do this. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is entirely subjective. Obviously, you wouldn't want to lock up a tire under heavy braking while cornering, but you wouldn't want to have too little braking force in an emergency situation, either. With my 2015 IZIP E3 Dash with mechanical disc brakes, I can't lock up/skid the rear tire even if I try. I know that in some states, there are laws that state that bicycles must not only have a brake, but that they must be able to skid the rear tire to show that their brakes work. Neither my road bike with caliper/rim brakes and 23C road tires nor my ebike with mechanical discs and 47C tires is able to skid on either tire. Perhaps my tires just have too much grip?
I'm solidly on the hydraulic disc train, and it's not due to the marketing. It's due to the braking power and braking feel, which I feel is not only superior to the feel of my mechanical discs, but is also confidence-inspiring.
Your mechanical disks aren't working properly.
Overstating the difference here:
The instant before lockup is the point of MAXIMUM braking. Once the wheel is locked braking distances increase. IF (as it SHOULD) a mechanical brake locks the wheels up then no additional braking power is going to slow you any quicker.
I love the feel of the Hyd, the tactile feedback IS better.
I've had 3 bikes with and 2 now. 2 of them had problems that had to go to the LBS for a week in the middle of riding season because I don't know how to work on them. $40-50 ea
When they do stop slightly better it's as likely the better brake pads that they use on the much more expensive brake setup. If you're comparing a premium setup, they're probably using larger rotors (BIG help!)
Swap those pads and whopper rotor onto the mech's and compare.
Cheaper bikes come with cheaper brake setups. There aren't cheap hydraulic setups, so they tend to be an upgraded 'family' and on premium (Good) bikes that feel better overall.
I have 2 mechanical disk brakes setup. One on my 28+mph 64lb trike.
It stops faster than any of the hydraulic bikes I've owned. (3 wheels contact patch help)
There is no difference in stopping power. And I fix the mechanical in my garage in 5 minutes. (when you squeeze the lever the cable moves the piston out at the other end!!)
You FEEL better with Hyd. No problem. You ain't stopping any faster. You're probably not working on them yourself and if you have a problem on the trail/road, you're not fixing it there with a multi tool.
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Jim123
Member
Locking a wheel is the limit for stopping. But well modulated brakes let you get close to lockout without locking out. Single and double finger brakes make your hands less tired, so you can ride further and more often. I know it is not cardiovascular endurance, but mental endurance runs off of how well you feel doing something. Plus a good feeling during an experience is just more fun.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
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