1 Million mile EV battery

[JRA]

Ravi, I hear what you say about energy density but seat of the pants ride time over same terrain there is a noticeable improvement at the lower end of the v range and But in the end as you suggest I am probably only getting 3% plus mileage gain, it just seems to stay stronger throughout. The cost to switch was no more than it would have been for comparable quality 1865 packs also.

 

[Explorer-1]

Ravi, I hear what you say about energy density but seat of the pants ride time over same terrain there is a noticeable improvement at the lower end of the v range and But in the end as you suggest I am probably only getting 3% plus mileage gain, it just seems to stay stronger throughout. The cost to switch was no more than it would have been for comparable quality 1865 packs also.

This is mostly the same as in many other applications. At the power levels required on e-bikes there is less voltage sag, allowing the cells to achieve a higher Wh Rating in this application, compared to most general 18650 cells used in ebikes.

Many (most?) consumers are getting lied to in a sense, as their e-bike batteries will never deliver their rated Wh capacity with their typical ebike usage. Some manufactures are also not rating their packs correctly, they are ignoring the manufacture's Wh rating and just doing a basic VxAh rating Giving them room to fudge the V, but also not really consider the power level of their application.

Some of the cheaper 21700 cells behave more like the 18650 for power delivery, but this is where e-bike vendors often ignore the manufacture's Wh rating for their typical load, and just use the high Ah capacity to create a higher fudged Wh capacity rating.

 

[Ebiker01]

I think that EBike technology needs to catch up with adopting the current 2170 cells first... 4680s are still a long way away.

A few ebike companies already use the 21700. Mostly in Europe. Olympia has 900wh packs in their emtb. BH has 750wh . There are others besides those 2.

 

[FlatSix911]

A few ebike companies already use the 21700. Mostly in Europe. Olympia has 900wh packs in their emtb. BH has 750wh . There are others besides those 2.

Yes, a few European brands so far... more 2170s are coming.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Lots of activity coming out of Dalhousie and Dr. Dahn's group.

EV battery material firm Novonix strengthen ties with Dalhousie University

Electric vehicle battery material firm Novonix inks five-year deal with battery researchers at Dalhousie University.

thedriven.io

Jeff Dahn: Leaving Leadership Role At Tesla To Advise For Novonix

Dahn announced plans to step down from his leadership role at Tesla’s Advanced Battery Research group and to become Chief Scientific Advisor at Novonix.

insideevs.com

 

[FlatSix911]

Good to see that Jeff is passing the torch to the next generation at Tesla Research.
And it looks like he will take the leadership role of Chief Scientist at Novonix.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Good to see that Jeff is passing the torch to the next generation at Tesla Research.
And it looks like he will take the leadership role of Chief Scientist at Novonix.

Dr. Dahn will oversee the overall R+D and advise two professors under him. He will remain the Chief Tesla Canada research chair but will empower two new people to take over the partnership with Tesla eventually.
His role as Chief Scientific Advisor at Novonix is making a big difference already. Just last week, they were awarded a huge private contract to build micro-grid batteries.
He has been super supportive and will be involved as an advisor at Zen E-bikes. More details will be announced when we near the product launch sometime this summer. If it was not for the pandemic, I would send out an invite to EBR members like you to come and visit us in Halifax and test the bikes first hand.

 

[FlatSix911]

Dr. Dahn will oversee the overall R+D and advise two professors under him. He will remain the Chief Tesla Canada research chair but will empower two new people to take over the partnership with Tesla eventually.
His role as Chief Scientific Advisor at Novonix is making a big difference already. Just last week, they were awarded a huge private contract to build micro-grid batteries.
He has been super supportive and will be involved as an advisor at Zen E-bikes. More details will be announced when we near the product launch sometime this summer. If it was not for the pandemic, I would send out an invite to EBR members like you to come and visit us in Halifax and test the bikes first hand.

Glad to hear that he is retaining his Chair with Tesla and also advising your team at Zen EBikes!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

The province of Nova Scotia is getting involved in supporting two major tech fields:

1. Computer science to support the new wave of AI/ML companies
2. Cleantech - EVs, Batteries (Li-ion, Zn-ion), Ocean/tidal wave renewable energy.

As part of this, Dalhousie received $13.3M for boosting computer science programs. A new series of EV/battery-related investments will be announced later this year.

Province Building Startup Potential

News releases from the Government of Nova Scotia

novascotia.ca

Premier Rankin visits Dahn lab, talks new CS funding in campus visit

Nova Scotia’s new premier Iain Rankin visited Dalhousie this week, touring the lab of Tesla Canada Research Chair Jeff Dahn and speaking about the province's recent investing in computer science education.

www.dal.ca

 

[Dallant]

I care about shipping batteries. Will these be any better in that regard than existing Lithium ion?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I care about shipping batteries.

Care to explain more? (are you looking to ship E-bike batteries or any other kind?)
Right now, every kind of Li-ion battery will need thorough testing and validation and HAZMAT certified shipper.
This is not going to change until 2025, at the very earliest. Once the solid-state batteries become mainstream and are fully validated for air-ground shipping, there MAY be a slight relaxation to the policies.
There are still many challenges to solid-state batteries becoming mainstream and right now, they need high pressure and/or temperature to operate and still have many technological hurdles.

As per your alluded question, million-mile battery chemistry will last 4-5x longer than typical chemistry and are being deployed in utility-storage like Tesla power wall and Mega packs.
As an example, this is a 15 MWh Tesla Megapack that will support the UK's power grid. Something like this would really mitigate the disaster we witnessed in Texas this winter.

 

[reed scott]

I care about shipping batteries. Will these be any better in that regard than existing Lithium ion?

Good question. Doubt it. I think they come in a lead container delivered by a nuclear waste handling outfit. ( Think I'm kidding? Read the article on what these things are made of. )

 

[Dallant]

Well, in my mind, until these batteries are easily shipable via airlines, vacationing with ebikes will be very limited. We have a number of friends out west we’d love to visit and ride with by air. I’d much rather have that capability than a million mile battery.

 

[Dallant]

Good question. Doubt it. I think they come in a lead container delivered by a nuclear waste handling outfit. ( Think I'm kidding? Read the article on what these things are made of. )

As someone who used to do high-speed film recordings of nuclear waste cask tests, I have full appreciation.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Well, in my mind, until these batteries are easily shipable via airlines, vacationing with ebikes will be very limited. We have a number of friends out west we’d love to visit and ride with by air. I’d much rather have that capability than a million mile battery.

Thanks for your opinion and feedback!

Renting an E-bike battery makes a lot more sense than flying with a battery.

Million-mile battery is designed for EVs like Cars, Cybertruck, Model Y SUV, and Semi-trucks and for grid-scale storage.
These advanced chemistries are being produced right now in California by Tesla in the 4680 form factor.

 

[Dallant]

Care to explain more? (are you looking to ship E-bike batteries or any other kind?)
Right now, every kind of Li-ion battery will need thorough testing and validation and HAZMAT certified shipper.
This is not going to change until 2025, at the very latest. Once the solid-state batteries become mainstream and are fully validated for air-ground shipping, there MAY be a slight relaxation to the policies.
There are still many challenges to solid-state batteries becoming mainstream and right now, they need high pressure and/or temperature to operate and still have many technological hurdles.

You mean at the very earliest?

 

[Dallant]

Thanks for your opinion and feedback!

Renting an E-bike battery makes a lot more sense than flying with a battery.

Million-mile battery is designed for EVs like Cars, Cybertruck, Model Y SUV, and Semi-trucks and for grid-scale storage.
These advanced chemistries are being produced right now in California by Tesla in the 4680 form factor.

Renting a battery MAY make more sense but is VERY expensive IF you can even find one where you are headed. I’ve been waiting 5 months for Bosch to get me a spare! Thank god I haven’t had a failure!
I’d be far more interested in investing in new chemistry that could be shipped than a million mile battery. Tesla battery tech is great but it’ll be very rare that anyone is going to try to ship a Tesla battery.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Renting a battery MAY make more sense but is VERY expensive IF you can even find one where you are headed. I’ve been waiting 5 months for Bosch to get me a spare! Thank god I haven’t had a failure!
I’d be far more interested in investing in new chemistry that could be shipped than a million mile battery. Tesla battery tech is great but it’ll be very rare that anyone is going to try to ship a Tesla battery.

ok. Thanks for your opinion again!

Here are the threads where you could contribute positively and discuss E-bike battery shipping:

Battery Shipping

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/12/01/the-ebike-industries-dirty-little-secret-haz-mat-battery-shipping/ Karl has a lot of information about shipping batteries. Apparently Bionz got hit with a large fine for some shipping issues. Pedego had a massive recall of batteries, and there have been...

electricbikereview.com

How can I ship my ebike across the country? Lithium ion...

www.mtbr.com

 

[reed scott]

As someone who used to do high-speed film recordings of nuclear waste cask tests, I have full appreciation.

'Depleted' uranium tank shells come to mind.

 

[Dallant]

ok. Thanks for your opinion again!

Here are the threads where you could contribute positively and discuss E-bike battery shipping:

Battery Shipping

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/12/01/the-ebike-industries-dirty-little-secret-haz-mat-battery-shipping/ Karl has a lot of information about shipping batteries. Apparently Bionz got hit with a large fine for some shipping issues. Pedego had a massive recall of batteries, and there have been...

electricbikereview.com

How can I ship my ebike across the country? Lithium ion...

www.mtbr.com

Ha...ok. Didn’t want to negatively point out the obvious. Evidently the big brains in ebike batteries aren’t moving on to a less dangerous chemistry any time soon. You missed the point. I DONT want to discuss ebike battery shipping.