Sometimes you feel like a mid, sometimes you don't....

[usclassic]

Sure a few short rides is not enough to overcome the mid drive learning curve after riding hub drives for months. But...

I will continue to ride the cargowagon Neo mid drive bike and make a grocery run this week. Still for my street riding all the shifting seems like unnecessary wear and tear on the chain and derailleur. Perhaps I will end up liking it, perhaps not for grocery runs. It is much more nimble, smaller and light feeling than the Radwagon 5 and I look forward to riding it.

 

[mrgold35]

I went from "fall off a log easy" 750w 7 speed hub drive Radrover to a 1000w 10 speed mid-drive Himiway Cobra Pro. It is similar to going from an automatic transmission to manual gear car. I really have to think about my mid-drive gear changes and downshift when slowing down so I don't put too much stress on the chain when accelerating (way more up shifting also for slower acceleration). I could get away with a rear hub staying in 4th-7th gear only and bumping the throttle as needed for a little speed in any gear.

Still on my original chain on my hub drive after +3500 miles. Already snapped a chain on my mid-drive a few months later. I purchased a spare chain and keep it in my rack bag. I don't have the option to just throttle home with the mid-drive like I can with my rear hub ebike.

One huge advantage with having 160Nm of mid-drive tq is I only need PAS 1 to reach 16-20 mph compared to needing PAS 3-4 on my 80Nm hub drive. My battery charge cycles are cut by more than half with the mid drive.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Do you ever bog down to low ground speeds — say, well under 8 mph on long, steep hills or against high, sustained headwinds? Do you ever face running out of battery?

If no to all, you have no real need to keep up motor efficiency — in which case, a hub-drive should serve you as well as a mid-drive for most purposes.

Otherwise, motor efficiency becomes something to manage. And you'll have much more success at that with a mid-drive.

Why? Because keeping up a mid-drive's efficiency is only a matter of keeping up your cadence through gear changes. With a hub-drive, you have to keep up wheel speed instead, and that may not be possible on a long, steep hill — even with low gearing.

All ebike motors are more efficient at higher motor shaft speeds. As the shaft slows and efficiency drops, less of the electrical power input goes to forward propulsion and more to motor heating.

Heat the motor enough, and it'll go into thermal shutdown — hopefully before any damage is done. Much more chance of that happening on a hub-drive, where motor shaft speed is tied to wheel speed, not cadence.

Consider my recent ride up Double Peak with neighbor DB — he on a quality 500W hub-drive, and I on a 250W mid-drive. The last 2-3 mi steepen steadily from maybe 5-6% to a final half-mile pushing 20%.

I had the gearing to keep my cadence above an efficient 70 rpm the whole way up, and my mid-drive did just fine. But he got bogged down to a crawl halfway up, and his hub motor shut down from overheating before he even got to the 20% finale. Took 20 minutes of cooling before he could ride again.

 

[fooferdoggie]

unless its really cheap components, shifting is long-lasting. I have 20,000 miles on my original derailer. I shift a lot because I used to ride recumbents, but even then, I get over 8k on shifting housing or cable.

 

[gromike]

I run a geared front hub motor in a bike and have had no problems climbing with it. Though you do need to put some effort into pedaling on steeper hills. It's a light ebike with good gearing.

 

[usclassic]

First city ride 7 miles with the Bosch Cargo line mid drive. More of a workout, a lot of gear changing, slower average speed, but I can't say I didn't like it.

 

[6zfshdb]

I don't want to start a throttle war here, but for some, a hub with throttle offers more breakdown protection. If you break a chain, pedal, crank, BB bearing or derailleur, you're out of luck with a mid.
Yes, there are mid drives with a throttle that will help with some of these failures but the bike selection is quite limited.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I don't want to start a throttle war here, but for some, a hub with throttle offers more breakdown protection. If you break a chain, pedal, crank, BB bearing or derailleur, you're out of luck with a mid.
Yes, there are mid drives with a throttle that will help with some of these failures but the bike selection is quite limited.

That's the boogyman argument I see so much. All those components have been proven extremely reliable as long as you don't have bargin basment components that you often find on low-end hub drive bikes. After over 50,000 miles on mid-drive bikes, including a tandem ,I have never broken a chain or had any component fail that caused me not to get home but tires. A wheel that is falling apart is more of an issue than the other components.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I don't want to start a throttle war here, but for some, a hub with throttle offers more breakdown protection. If you break a chain, pedal, crank, BB bearing or derailleur, you're out of luck with a mid.

I can vouch for that. Broke a chain on my 70 lb hub-drive early in my ebike career. Only took half a mile of pushing it, partly uphill, to realize that I could just throttle it home. Duh!

 

[gromike]

Yeah, I had a chain come apart on a new mid-drive, and it was so sad in having to push the bike home.
I believe they cheaped the chain (like everything else) on the sub $400 ebike. (It actually got down to $249 delivered!)

On my newly remade hubmotor bike I can go 30mph plus with or without a chain. Just put it together and haven't goet around to setting speed and power restrictions yet.

 

[usclassic]

My son had me remove the pedals, chain. shifter, derailleur, cables and install foot pegs on the Aipas M1 Pro I gave him. He is a throttle only guy now lol. I rode my new Bosch cargo line mid drive to the store today and can't say I did not like it.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I did break or at least crack a crank arm on my first e bike. No clue how it happened I don't stand on the pedals.

 

[MrHyak]

I went from "fall off a log easy" 750w 7 speed hub drive Radrover to a 1000w 10 speed mid-drive Himiway Cobra Pro. It is similar to going from an automatic transmission to manual gear car. I really have to think about my mid-drive gear changes and downshift when slowing down so I don't put too much stress on the chain when accelerating (way more up shifting also for slower acceleration). I could get away with a rear hub staying in 4th-7th gear only and bumping the throttle as needed for a little speed in any gear.

Still on my original chain on my hub drive after +3500 miles. Already snapped a chain on my mid-drive a few months later. I purchased a spare chain and keep it in my rack bag. I don't have the option to just throttle home with the mid-drive like I can with my rear hub ebike.

One huge advantage with having 160Nm of mid-drive tq is I only need PAS 1 to reach 16-20 mph compared to needing PAS 3-4 on my 80Nm hub drive. My battery charge cycles are cut by more than half with the mid drive.

I have had my cobra pro 3 yrs now after having a cruiser hub drive for 2. It did take a couple months to really get comfortable with all the shifting and so forth, but once you get into the groove its really awesome and I would never go back to a hub. The Cobra Pro is a great bike for tackling the hills and steeper mtn trails.

 

[Chargeride]

The cure for hub bogging is more powah!!!!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

The cure for hub bogging is more powah!!!!

Lots of truth to that. Weight also figures in.

Plenty of hills here capable of bogging down my 70 lb 500W 45 Nm hub-drive to the point that I'm pretty much on my own to finish the climb. And I always pedal with exertion. Had to gear it down for that very reason.

Wife had the same ebike but less commitment to strenuous pedaling and soon stopped riding it on bigger hills.

Now she has a 50 lb 750W 65 Nm hub-drive cruiser (Velotric Breeze) that has yet to show any sign of bogging down. I keep taking her on more and more challenging hill rides now (with me on my 38 lb 240W 35 Nm mid-drive) and nary a complaint — from her or either of the bikes.

 

[mrgold35]

I have had my cobra pro 3 yrs now after having a cruiser hub drive for 2. It did take a couple months to really get comfortable with all the shifting and so forth, but once you get into the groove its really awesome and I would never go back to a hub. The Cobra Pro is a great bike for tacking the hills and steeper mtn trails.

I haven't touch my rear hub Radrovers in +2 1/2 years since purchasing the Cobra Pro. I save my two Radrovers as a back up if we do a family ride with others. Having 2X the hp/tq with the mid-drive is amazing. Pretty much second nature now down/up shifting with any change in speed. Having 10 speeds to pick from also makes it easy to pick a gear for a pedal cadence for a good balance of speed, power, less leg fatigue, and leg endurance range.

 

[RunForTheHills]

Does nobody carry a couple of Quick Links / Missing Links in their field tool kit? They hardly take up any room in the bag.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Does nobody carry a couple of Quick Links / Missing Links in their field tool kit? They hardly take up any room in the bag.

Yes, I do now. But I'd been away from cycling for almost 25 years when my chain broke 3 years ago and didn't know about quick links then.

Question is, do you need to replace the quick links you carry when you change chain brands or models — say, from a 12-speed Shimano to a 12-speed SRAM?

 

[RunForTheHills]

Yes, I do now. But I'd been away from cycling for almost 25 years when my chain broke 3 years ago and didn't know about quick links then.

Question is, do you need to replace the quick links you carry when you change chain brands or models — say, from a 12-speed Shimano to a 12-speed SRAM?

It's good question. I am embarrassed to say I don't. But hopefully the ones I have (KMC, I think) will get me home. I don't have any 12 speed drive trains at the moment. But I keep a separate kit on each bike, so each one can be customized.

MTA: I just checked and I'm good: "Compatible with KMC, Campagnolo, Shimano & SRAM 11 speed chains"

 

[6zfshdb]

That's the boogyman argument I see so much. All those components have been proven extremely reliable as long as you don't have bargin basment components that you often find on low-end hub drive bikes. After over 50,000 miles on mid-drive bikes, including a tandem ,I have never broken a chain or had any component fail that caused me not to get home but tires. A wheel that is falling apart is more of an issue than the other components.

Please note, I said "for some". There is always a chance of failure, no matter how small, with any moving part.
YMMV.