Looking for a cadence sensor commuting bike-where did they all go?

[salaryman]

Hi There - I have a old and dying Rad City 5 with a cadence sensor that has since been discontinued. I have arthritis in my knees
and hips and have a hard time pedaling without a cadence sensor. I had purchased an Aventon Level 2 but struggled with the
fit (handle bars to forward) plus the torque sensor didnt give me enough assist without the throttle, which I didnt care for.
I gave the bike to my daughter who is enjoying it very much as she doesn't have my issues! In searching for a replacement
I cant find any cadence sensor bikes without fat tires. Any thoughts on why this is and recommendations for commuter type bikes that
would be easier on my knees? Thank you

 

[stompandgo]

Velotric Breeze
Cannodale Adventure Neo
Cannondale Tesoro, look for closeouts

 

[Aushiker]

Do some motors rely on cadence and not torque to determine assist levels? Why would they do this?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Do some motors rely on cadence and not torque to determine assist levels? Why would they do this?

Because it is a simple system where the controller only checks whether the crank and the rear wheel are rotating then provide constant motor power per the assistance level. The "cadence" system even doesn't measure the cadence! Only the crank movement.

It is an On-Off system with constant power delivery. Nothing depends on how you pedal the bike.

A simple torque system only measures how hard you stomp on the pedals. It does not take into account how fast you are rotating the cranks. Another primitive system.

Your Bosch is not just a torque system. It also measures the cadence, calculates the rider's power input and does many other sophisticated things

 

[mrgold35]

I feel your pain with the Rad City. I purchased a Rad City5 Plus step thru for my wife in June/23. The controller is starting to go out again with zero PAS/throttle power randomly on a ride (power off/on to fix). This would be my 4th controller for this ebike when Rad sends a replacement.

Pretty much in the same boat and I will probably fix and sale if I can find a good replacement.

 

[S.Giles]

I had knee problems and what I used to call 'rheumatism' in my neck, back and hands. All the symptoms disappeared when I stopped eating any food containing gluten. That's a big list of foods that I had to give up, but I'm not about to go back to constant pain any time soon.

It might be worth a try, and costs nothing.

 

[JGcycle]

I believe that the Voltbike Bravo still uses a cadence sensor.

 

[PedalUma]

Most modern and popular bikes in stores today with hub-drives allow for either. It is just a matter of programing the menu: Torque sensor, Enable/Disable. You could have done that on the Level 2 and flipped the stem. Total time 3.35 minutes. Done.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Velotric now makes ebikes with SensorSwap. You toggle between torque- and cadence-sensing assist on the fly with a single button press on the handlebar remote.

My wife has it on their Breeze cruiser, but other models have it as well. She generally prefers torque-sensing assist, but pedal force limitations due to her creaky sacroiliac joints put higher assist levels out of reach in that mode. Cue the cadence-sensing, then go back to torque-sensing when the need has passed. Brilliant!

Better yet, it's only 50 lb! Also impressed with overall design and build quality. Would've implemented the thumb throttle differently, but with the SensorSwap, she rarely uses it.

 

[salaryman]

Everyone thank you very much for your thoughtful and very helpful replies, plus health tips and bike models. I am fascinated by the concept of having both.
When I called Aventon and asked about that they said Torque only and by then it was too late to return it. I feel better educated now. Also, on the Rad City 5.
I have had three controller replacements, the display, and brakes went out with less than 300 miles. All but the last controller were covered by Rad but that's no
way to keep customers or garner recommendations!

 

[stompandgo]

If you liked the Aventon, check out the Velotric Breeze. As Jeremy says, you can choose cadence or torque. The Cannondale Tesoro has both, and much more, as Stefan says.

 

[PedalUma]

you can choose cadence or torque

@stompandgo, Did you look over that display manual for the T-154? You can switch between cadence and torque. If you were hiring Summer job attractive but not necessarily hardcore cyclist college students to do a pedicab on Nantucket for tourists, or make cargo deliveries across the island, you could switch it to cadence and they could do a full eight hour-shift for five days per week without quitting on day one. And they would still appear to be pedaling.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You can switch between cadence and torque.

A totally primitive system.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

A totally primitive system.

Wrong.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Jeremy, as you already know, torque without the angular speed makes no sense. A torque system only measures how hard you stomp on the pedals but does not measure how fast you rotate the cranks. You may pedal at cadence 30 but grind the pedals. What is the power you deliver to the cranks? Now, pedal lightly at cadence of 110. Will the torque only system understand you are inputting a way higher power than at cadence 30? Not.

The fact you own some simple e-bikes doesn't change the fact your Vado SL is a sophisticated system, light-years ahead your Aventon or Veloctric.

Have you ever wondered why you need a throttle on a torque system but you don't need it on a sophisticated leg power system?

 

[PedalUma]

Yes, all good systems relate speed, to torque, and cadence. Best ones allow users to fine adjust those inputs and many others, such as the degrees before kick-in, how that kick-in progresses, over-run milliseconds, and so on. Dumb ones come only with a few factory preset options, the user cannot self-tune. The good stuff makes the bike an instrument, not an appliance. Some people, most, do not want three pedals on a piano or a car or subtle expressive action.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Jeremy, as you already know, torque without the angular speed makes no sense.

And yet, the Breeze is a competent, well-made ebike that's also a pleasure to ride — certainly vastly better than no ebike at all. The power delivery's quite nice. Versatile, too. Try one sometime.

I understand the physics. I also understand that the power-sensing PAS on my Specialized Vado SL 1 is a thing of engineering beauty. The whole bike is.

What you seem to miss over and over is that an ebike doesn't have to be the best to be good.

 

[stompandgo]

@stompandgo, Did you look over that display manual for the T-154? You can switch between cadence and torque. If you were hiring Summer job attractive but not necessarily hardcore cyclist college students to do a pedicab on Nantucket for tourists, or make cargo deliveries across the island, you could switch it to cadence and they could do a full eight hour-shift for five days per week without quitting on day one. And they would still appear to be pedaling.

Excellent.

 

[stompandgo]

A totally primitive system.

At half the cost of your non-primitive system.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What you seem to miss over and over is that an ebike doesn't have to be the best to be good.

The life is too short to waste it on inferior things.

Why did you buy the Vado SL? Perhaps because it is good?