Sensored Motor Controller Wiring Manual Deciphering

[stonestonestone]

I'm about to buy this Motor controller from pswpower

But for the life of me, I cannot understand what this is supposed to mean:
"Note:This is sensor controller, so controller has three big cable and five sensor wires and one speed sensor wire. you motor must have 8pcs wires or 9pcs wires, If you motor just three big cable, please buy sensorless controller."
My motor has 3 phase wires. Also, there is a five pinned connector and a single pin connector. Is that the 9pcs? That means my motor has a sensor?
What's weird is that on the data sheet it shows the hall sensor as a 6pin, even though it said theres only 5 sensor wires? Also, the speed sensor wire as a 3pin- even though it should be a 1 pin?

 

[PCeBiker]

My motor has 3 phase wires. Also, there is a five pinned connector and a single pin connector. Is that the 9pcs? That means my motor has a sensor?

If your motor has those 9 wires going to it, then you have motor sensors.

The 3 Fat blue, green, and yellow wires are your phase wires.
They deliver the power to the motor.

The 3 skinny blue, green, and yellow wires are your sensor wires that monitor your phase wires to let the controller know where your motor is at.
The sensor and phase wires are ALWAYS paired together. Blue to blue, green to green, and yellow to yellow.

Then you've got your +5V powering your sensors. Red is positive, and black is negative.

And finally you've got your speed sensor wire which sends a pulse to your controller to indicate your speed.

The only other wire that could come out of your hub motor is a temperature sensor wire but a temperature sensor is extremely rare, and is normally only found on Huge motors.

 

[PCeBiker]

What's weird is that on the data sheet it shows the hall sensor as a 6pin, even though it said theres only 5 sensor wires?

That 6th pin is for the temperature sensor and most motors don't have a temperature sensor.

Also, the speed sensor wire as a 3pin- even though it should be a 1 pin?

The speed sensor output wire is white. The red and black are positive and negative.

The speed sensor can be powered by the red and black hall sensor power wires, so then you would only have the single white wire as a speed sensor output.

This is the thread where I posted about my KT install.
It's kind of a scattered mess, but it might have some useful information and pictures,..

Alternative Display and Controller for NCM (DAS-KIT)

Wanting to increase the PAS Max speed on my NCM bike I be quite satisfied with around 30-35kmh it currently 25kmh The Das-Kit system appears to be complete locked down so I'm considering if Sourcing a alternate KT display and controller that would plug and play with the current hub motor...

forums.electricbikereview.com

 

[PCeBiker]

I bought the KT controller with the waterproof plugs and it doesn't have all these connectors with jumper wires to turn things on and off,..

I turn my cruise control on and off with the display, as well as adjust the power and speed settings with the display.

I don't know how this controller would behave if you were to activate the cruise control with the jumper wire, then shut it off with the display, or vice versa?

Same with the speed/power limiter?
They may work in combination with each other to further reduce the power?

The lamp and speaker connector is probably for lights and horn, but I'm not sure?
(Or it's for hooking up a stereo with disco lights? )

My waterproof controller has a separate plug on the 1-5 cable for the headlights, and is turned on and off with my display.
(If I didn't have a headlight, then I would use the 1-4 cable instead, without the light output plug.)

The EABS jumper wire is for turning the regeneration braking on and off, but as far as I know most geared hub motors have a clutch and will not have regenerating braking.

 

[harryS]

There's a lot of wires on that KT controller. I don't need EABS, cruise, or the lights. I cut those off, pull the wires inside the case and tape them up. Many motors have speed sensors built in, and the 6 pin rectangular plug will pick it up if present.

Be glad you have a white wire for the motor's internal speed sensor. It uses 5V power and ground from the Hall sensors in the motor, so you run the white wire from the motor to the 2x3 connector.

If your motor did not have a speed sensor, some don't, then you would fit an external sensor and run it to the extra three ping connctor provided. I've had that speed sensor burn out in two motors. and I've had to add the external sensor as a work around.

 

[john e-bike 2007]

Yes I am looking at KT30 or 35 now 07/25. I have a brushless geared hub motor with a 9 pin cable. Oddly, the cable to the motor has the 9 pin connector on the motor end and connectors to the controller end are a 5 pin jst hall and 3 phase anderson. Yes 9 to 8. So maybe they just cut the 9th wire (white) and used the 8 wires? The 3 blue yellow green are motor phase power wires. The 5 pin hall is for the controller to monitor the speed of the motor. The 5 pin hall connector has a black wire for ground, red wire for +5v, blue yellow and green for the hall sensors. And it runs fine. If its a six pin connector, the sixth wire is white for a temperature or speed sensor in the motor. The speed can be derived from the hall sensors so maybe temp? I don't know. If I get a KT with 5 pin hall I will just plug it in after making sure the pin connections are correct. For a 6 pin connector I change it to the 5 pin connector in correct order. If I can't get a speed indication I will take the loose white wire and splice a red tap wire from the red wire and connect them to a regular rpm sensor that sits on the fork with a spoke magnet. This will get the speed form the wheel if it is needed. The othe connectors are 3 pin for the throttle and PAS pedal assist sensor, the 2 battery connectors black and red are bullet or anderson, the 2 pin are for ebrakes, other 2 pin connectors could be for lights front and rear. The 1 pin that connect together are just to change the direction of the motor. A 5 pin connecctor is for the display connection. I have always run with throttle only so I never had PAS. Because of govt. crackdowns I looked at the legal definitions and I saw PAS so I want do the changeover. Just PAS is Class 1, PAS and throttle is class 2. I have brake/gear shifters so no e brakes are going on. I could put a limit switch at the actual brakes and send that to the e brake connector if needed. I will add a picture in the future. Good Luck!

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. the sixth wire is white for a temperature or speed sensor in the motor. The speed can be derived from the hall sensors so maybe temp? I don't know.

I have a Bafang geared hub motor with a clutch, so the motor doesn't drag/cog when it isn't powered.
The hal/phase sensor wires stop putting out a signal when it's idling, so the motor has 6 speed magnets in the outer motor case that provide speed data.

,.. If I can't get a speed indication I will take the loose white wire and splice a red tap wire from the red wire and connect them to a regular rpm sensor that sits on the fork with a spoke magnet. This will get the speed form the wheel if it is needed.

The issue with only a single magnet on a wheel, is that your speedometer loses sensitivity, and you can get some erroneous readings when starting from a stop and at slow speed.

 

[PCeBiker]

Yes I am looking at KT30 or 35 now 07/25. I have a brushless geared hub motor with a 9 pin cable.

The KT controllers over 25 amps use a bigger motor plug, so make sure you have the correct plug for your motor. (you can make your own "adaptor" using a motor cable extension)

It sounds like you have a "normal" hub motor with a clutch and speed magnets inside?

It's best to use the white speed sensor output that a new KT controller will have an input for in the motor cable connector.

When the KT controller gets up to it's set speed (PAS or throttle) it cuts the power to the motor and monitors the phase sensor data and compares it to the speed sensor data.
The "idling" motor has drag from the spinning gears and grease, so the motor is given just enough power to overcome that drag by comparing the speed data to the phase sensor data to make sure the inner motor core keeps spinning.

Without proper speed sensor data, the power cutting in and out causes annoying surging of the motor.

Unless you're full throttle all the time, then your motor is always fully powered.

 

[harryS]

I've always set my speed limit in the display at max, so never had to worry about the bike surging at the limiter. Given my age and how my bikes look, I never worried about being stopped for bike checks.

I do have a problem with external speed sensors on my KT controllers though. Have put up four builds, and three have speedometer jitter (sometimes unreadable) when coasting, I believe the controllers only use the sensor when coasting,

I will have to experiment with my KT's. Adjust magnet spacing or try a PAS sensor..

 

[PCeBiker]

I will have to experiment with my KT's. Adjust magnet spacing or try a PAS sensor..

If you could install a PAS sensor with more magnets on a wheel somehow, you could probably use it as a speed sensor, and get your ebikes to run smoother?

I like how the KT display shows the Actual power being used while coasting.
It's pretty flat where I am, but I managed to find a long enough downhill coast for my power reading to stabilize and it was something like 18 Watts.
(My new ebike says 0 Watts while coasting, which is also Bold Faced Lie. )

I remember when @m@Robertson put too much grease in his hub motor, and he was reading 60 Watts to "idle" the motor.
That's how he knew he put too much grease on the gears.

So, if those 3 ebikes are giving erroneous speed readings while coasting, then you're probably not getting your motor core spun up properly?

And a single magnet on a wheel leaves too much interpolation for the controller to figure out.

 

[PCeBiker]

I'm counting 20 magnets on my motor core, so 20 phase/hal sensor pulses per revolution.

If you have a single speed pulse per revolution, the resolution will suck.

H1 H2 and H3 are my phase Hal sensors.
H4 is my speed sensor reading 6 magnets per revolution,..