The Future of eBikes: How Fast is Too Fast?
- Thread starter Dapstar
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jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
I don't think any state allows motorcycles on MUPs. Just noting that if all you want to do is ride roads, you just need to meet the definition of a motorcycle in your states code and register/plate it and you can have as much power as you want and ride as fast as the law allows on roads.
If riding on a MUP is important, I would get a legal ebike. At least one that conforms to the class 1/2/3 definitions, since that seems to be where every state is heading.
Motorcycles definitely should not be allowed on MUPs, at least any that I've ever been on. No only were MUPs are not designed for them, they were built in the first place because pedestrians and cyclists wanted a space they didn't have to share with motor vehicles.
juggernaut1
Member
- Region
- Australia
Not in my state in my country either. Doesn’t stop them though. It’s usually teens on off-road dirt bikes and there have been deaths where they have hit people,
DaveMatthews
Dave's not here. Cheating since 2018
- Region
- Canada
This is what happens when there's nothing better to do...
jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
There will always be people who break the law, but thats not an argument for not having laws.
Not sure what you mean by trouble for other people. The licensing for motorcycles has been around for my entire lifetime. All thats really changed is we added some laws around ebikes that said if they meet certain requirements for power and assist speed they can largely be treated like bicycles. I know some people want to have it both ways (no legal obligations per motorcycles but also don't want to have to abide by the restrictions for actual ebikes and still want to be able to ride them in places that only allow bicycles) but that doesn't change the actual legal definition of ebike.
If it is not an argument for not having laws then it is not an argument for having laws.
Have you ever asked yourself why some laws exist and some do not exist? You can wish to law as much as you want but if the law does more bad than good this law will not exist.
And regarding those death accidents with e-bikes - the law already exists, it called negligence and the case will be prosecuted according to the law. You do not need to make more unnecessary laws. And like you said, there will always be people who break the law and extra laws will do more bad than good in this case.
If you would have traffic of e-bikes on MUP like on the highways and amount of death accidents like on the highways, and maybe money revenue from e-bikes owners like money revenue from motor vehicles owners, then it would make sense to think about spending money and effort on extra laws, licensing and enforcing.
Have you ever asked yourself why some laws exist and some do not exist? You can wish to law as much as you want but if the law does more bad than good this law will not exist.
And regarding those death accidents with e-bikes - the law already exists, it called negligence and the case will be prosecuted according to the law. You do not need to make more unnecessary laws. And like you said, there will always be people who break the law and extra laws will do more bad than good in this case.
If you would have traffic of e-bikes on MUP like on the highways and amount of death accidents like on the highways, and maybe money revenue from e-bikes owners like money revenue from motor vehicles owners, then it would make sense to think about spending money and effort on extra laws, licensing and enforcing.
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Some people mistakenly think that if you do not have a licensing system for e-bikes you can kill people with e-bikes without legal consequences - it is not true. The same people mistakenly think if they will have licensing for e-bikes it will make the society life better - it is not true too. It might make their personal life better depending on their personal lifestyle and preferences, but the whole society life will likely become worst.
DaveMatthews
Dave's not here. Cheating since 2018
- Region
- Canada
What?
Do you remember the coronavirus era laws? The people who made all those laws and restrictions believed they do good stuff making all those laws and restrictions. But it made only their personal life better, not the whole society.
You might be OK with e-bikes restrictions and limitations and also want to put licensing system on top and ready to pay money and your personal time for all this effort, but it is just your personal desire and it does not go along with what is good for society.
You might be OK with e-bikes restrictions and limitations and also want to put licensing system on top and ready to pay money and your personal time for all this effort, but it is just your personal desire and it does not go along with what is good for society.
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mschwett
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
in whose opinion? yours? what is good for society is a complex question and i'd advise anyone to be deeply skeptical of anyone who claims to have the answer unequivocally, as your comment here suggests.
some level of regulation is required in most things that are truly shared public resources, like roads or the airspace, water, etc. the question then becomes how much, what type, at what cost - to who - and what benefit - to who?
personally, i'd say the highest priority in the states is to get people out of their cars, onto bikes or similar, using less land and energy for getting around, parking, etc. anything that significantly moves that needle has a huge public benefit. it gets tricky when the system is so lax that it creates a very strong negative perception, which REALLY limits the potential market and benefit. not too many people are going to think "hey i could easily get to work/school/the market on an ebike" when their only experience is of nearly getting mowed down on a sidewalk or crossing the street. similarly, the strongest advocates for e-bikes COULD be the millions of existing cyclists in the country, but the poor behavior of a subset of e-bike riders, especially when using infrastructure that traditional cyclists fought long and hard for, has alienated a huge number of those people. add to that the inability to reliably regulate things like this at a federal level (by design, really) in the united states, and we're goin to see a patchwork of opinions and rules for a long, long time.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Man, some of you guys really hate roadies.
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
Not all, just the organized groups that think they own the road / trail.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Let's just face it, it is hard for any organized group of cyclists to not completely hog whatever road or trail they are riding on. Best to do this activity in very small groups or solo.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
How do you know what they think?
If you're riding along and a group passes you cleanly, are you upset because they are riding faster than you? If you're driving and approach a group that's 2-3 wide, does that irritate you, even though you can pass them cleanly?
If you're riding along and a group passes you cleanly, are you upset because they are riding faster than you? If you're driving and approach a group that's 2-3 wide, does that irritate you, even though you can pass them cleanly?
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
It's called sharing the road.
stompandgo
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
You jump to a lot of conclusions about how much spandex I might own and wear.Best for you, I guess.
Let's face it, some of you hate spandex.
Based on my experience, inevitably in a larger group someone ignores or stretches the limits of courtesy to other people. And what happens then is that other members of the group see that person doing it and inevitably some more of them will do the same thing. I've seen this process over and over again in many group outdoor activities, not just cycling. What you end up with is that otherwise reasonable and conscientious people find themselves behaving in incredibly rude ways just because of group dynamics.
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