Bafang G062 / G063 Info

[JTK77]

G062 06-windings can take huge phase amps for enough time for typical use. I have this motor heavily modified but with stock windings and running 200 phase amps peak.

 

[amradio]

G062 06-windings can take huge phase amps for enough time for typical use. I have this motor heavily modified but with stock windings and running 200 phase amps peak.

Yours is heavily modified with liquid cooling. I'm talking completely stock, non vented casing. Your motor is been through lots. I'd like to go as much power as possibly without damaging a stock motor.

Does your BT temperature thermistor sit completely inside the casing, or does a wire come outside to transmit?

 

[amradio]

G062 06-windings can take huge phase amps for enough time for typical use. I have this motor heavily modified but with stock windings and running 200 phase amps peak.

Do you have a link to your BT temperature monitor? Does your BT temperature thermistor sit completely inside the casing, or does a wire come outside to transmit?

 

[Christopher Cramer]

I've owned a blade 2 from Rize bikes for about 2.5 years and I've lost about 4 motors by the poor quality of the torque arms, and by how close the screws that mount the break disc to the motor come to the cable. The Blade 2 uses the 1000W G062 hub motor. Is that the peak wattage of the motor or the standard wattage for continuous riding? After so much trouble with this bike I'm looking at some other mobed style ebikes with just as much speed (50km/h). The 1500w Eunorau flash uses two 750w motors for AWD. I can definitely see how that would deliver much more torque, but compared to a single 1000w hub motor I'm not sure if it would be as fast. However it still has 52v batteries, so if the voltage output from the controller is the same would the bike still have as much speed while the duel motors provide more than enough torque for the load?

 

[amradio]

I've owned a blade 2 from Rize bikes for about 2.5 years and I've lost about 4 motors by the poor quality of the torque arms, and by how close the screws that mount the break disc to the motor come to the cable. The Blade 2 uses the 1000W G062 hub motor. Is that the peak wattage of the motor or the standard wattage for continuous riding? After so much trouble with this bike I'm looking at some other mobed style ebikes with just as much speed (50km/h). The 1500w Eunorau flash uses two 750w motors for AWD. I can definitely see how that would deliver much more torque, but compared to a single 1000w hub motor I'm not sure if it would be as fast. However it still has 52v batteries, so if the voltage output from the controller is the same would the bike still have as much speed while the duel motors provide more than enough torque for the load?

I don't know anything about the Eunorau. I've had the Blade 2 since they first released, as does my buddy. We both ride them hard and have had no issues. We have the upgraded torque washers from Rize. The 1000 watt is just a rating Rize used. They claim their controller is 27A peak, so 1404 watts peak at 52 volts. More with a fully charged battery.

 

[Christopher Cramer]

Yeah, I also pre-ordered the blade2. I have loved the high speed the bike has when fully charged. I replaced the original secondary battery with the 52v shark pack from golden motor which also boosted the speed to 54km/h and the range of course. The biggest attraction from the the eunorau flash is the AWD. That would be great for riding in the winter and up steep hills. My only concern is that it might only have a top speed of 45km/h, because the higher wattage only applies to torque in AWD. Voltage is what affects the speed in a brushless dc motor, so if a high powered motor controller delivers enough voltage to the motors the 750w motors could give you just as much speed, while the AWD handles the load, preventing it from burning out the motors.
The only reason Rize bikes made the improved torque washers was because of the first time my cable broke because the original torque washers did not prevent the axel from spinning when riding.

 

[amradio]

I bought a KT 45A controller and the LCD8H display for the KT controller. Does anyone have all the settings they have used? I see there are some P settings and C settings, and all the research I've done seems to show settings for other bikes, or not a G062.
I need help with
P5 (52 volt batteries), C1, (is this just counting the number of magnets on my PAS), C2 (I have a sine wave controller), C5 (more curious about the slow start and how they work).

 

[Ebikebuilderyt]

Thermistor - yes exactly. Some controllers that have phase speed sensing will still give you a speed readout even without the speed wire, you just wont get the speed readout when OFF the throttle (because its freewheeling).

What fails first - It depends. If you run 90+ phase amps (say you run like 150 phase amps) you could potentially shear the key, or damage the gears within the first 1/4 mile, if you are doing wheelies and hard starts, it could cause mechanical damage almost immediately (although those items can be upgraded somewhat). You can melt the windings with 50 phase amps, or 150 phase amps either way, it will just overheat much faster the higher the phase amps you use. With 150 phase amps you could potentially overheat a cold motor within a minute or two under the worst conditions, where 60 phase amps it may take a few minutes under the worst conditions. A temp sensor would help prevent overheating.

my experience was with a Phaserunner V6 L10 and G62.1000 (6) - i ran 90 phase amps on 72V with the G62 doing ~2500W for years without any problems (it seems to operate more smooth than VESC).

WHen Grin tech originally started selling the G62- it was set to 90 phase amps, 2000w max in the phaserunner suite. I never had a problem. (Grin Tech later reduced these numbers to 60 phase amps and 1000w nominal configuration in their default settings. And put a warning about axles breaking on their website...)

back to phase amps testing- I then used a FLIPSKY 75100 PRO V2 vesc controller- i think i started out with 90 phase amps, nothing happened. But i increased it to 105pa, nylon gears immediately blew up. So my theory is you can potentially use 80pa (i only weigh 150# that might be part of it), But 90pa+ is extremely risky and a waste of time with nylon gears.

if you weld the clutch and do regen, without any modification, the parallel key will be getting damaged and eventually sheer off, and you get stuck with the motor spinning and scraping. Welding the clutch with a m12 axle is not a good idea, I sheered an axle right where it comes out of the cassette, luckily going 5mph in the snow. You need 2* grin tech v7 regen torque arm to hold the g62 still for regen. Or some other clamping dropout system. there is no way any standard torque arms can handle the regen. They might for a year but then the axle will sheer off. Im still not even sure if the M14 axle with two v7 regen torque arms can handle regen But thats what I am going to try next.

you can use Loctite 648 (i think thats the one) to mate the planet carrier to the axle, and it maintains the bond and you dont even need the parallel key in theory, But then its a pain to take it apart, requires a lot of heat. So if you do that it seems you want some steel gears , or use settings that will make nylon gears last a while, its not fun to have to break that Loctite 648

i always cut the speed wire inside the motor, and then install a thermistor instead. You wont have the speed signal for the stock controller anymore, But i use VESC that calculates speed based on RPM / gearing / wheel size. Dont get the PCB too hot or go too crazy soldering it as i think i messed up a hall sensor PCB one time by getting it too hot with the solder iron accidentally

When installing a thermistor in the motor- dont even pull the hall sensor board off the motor. extremely sensitive, i have broke a hall sensor just gently trying to remove the pcb to get to the bottom of it. Its best to cut the wire and then hook it to a thermistor, without removing the hall sensor pcb

these things get to 120C easily but apparently grin tech says they dont FAIL until 150C in the motor simulator. So I might look into finding a thermistor that can go above 120C. But it seems when the motor gets that hot it will spike very easily, and it might be best to just keep it at 120C cut off.

Fun motor for when i dont feel like messing with bbs HD

 

[JTK77]

Current figures for my modified G062. Awesome to have this performance in stealthy package

 

[Ebikebuilderyt]

View attachment 190182View attachment 190181
Current figures for my modified G062. Awesome to have this performance in stealthy package

Nice, that’s crazy. I don’t plan on doing any water cooling personally but that’s insane

What are your thoughts on g62 regen, have you tried wwelding the clutch??

It works really well, braking force is incredible, don’t even need brakes on your bike, regen is OK at about 10% on normal street riding for me. But it takes a lot of fussing around and i broke an axle doing it. I miss regen but not sure the risk is worth it and it does add a little drag .

 

[JTK77]

Nice, that’s crazy. I don’t plan on doing any water cooling personally but that’s insane

What are your thoughts on g62 regen, have you tried wwelding the clutch??

It works really well, braking force is incredible, don’t even need brakes on your bike, regen is OK at about 10% on normal street riding for me. But it takes a lot of fussing around and i broke an axle doing it. I miss regen but not sure the risk is worth it and it does add a little drag .

I have welded the clutch. Experimented regen but Its too risky for the drivetrain. I have balanced V7 regen torque arms on both sides which is just enough to be relatively confident they hold.

 

[kevinmccune]

dang,what's your day job? believe if I was going to all that trouble I would just use a sprocket and those round PM motors.but its your hobby enjoy when you get older you will not have time for all that.

 

[Chargeride]

They probably said that to Isacc Newton.

 

[JTK77]

dang,what's your day job? believe if I was going to all that trouble I would just use a sprocket and those round PM motors.but its your hobby enjoy when you get older you will not have time for all that.

Manager in field of biotech process development. Family related responsibilies (50/50) and other other hobbies too...so busy life

 

[Chargeride]

Just noticed part steel gears.

 

[kevinmccune]

Manager in field of biotech process development. Family related responsibilies (50/50) and other other hobbies too...so busy life

sound very busy to me

 

[Ebikebuilderyt]

I have welded the clutch. Experimented regen but Its too risky for the drivetrain. I have balanced V7 regen torque arms on both sides which is just enough to be relatively confident they hold.

that's what I was thinking, I got a G63 with the M14 axle and I have two Grin Tech v7 torque arms lingering in my Amazon shopping cart with a Greater Purpose that awaits

I cracked open the RM G063 1000 DC 5.5 recently and did a surgery on it!

 

[OkinawaJapan]

I've had about 6 of these motors, heres some info that may help.

G062 1000 / G062 750 / G063 appear to be very similar motors-

G062.750 and G062.1000 are nearly identical motors. The primary difference being the phase wires. Traditionally the 750 was sold with Z916 phase wires and the 1000 was sold with superior L1019 phase wires, but now both the 750 and 1000 are readily available with L1019 phase wires making no difference. The only other difference I know of is the turn count. The 750w versions often come in 6.5T configuration, and 1000w versions come in 6T configuration (usually but not always). The 6.5T motors actually make more power/torque at a given phase amp (slightly higher turn) but have slightly less copper in parallel. The 6T motors seem to be 15 strands in parallel and 6.5T is 12 strands. Therefore the 6T motor (1000w) may handle slightly more heat before overheating, and may have slightly better overall copper fill and the 6.5T motor (750w) can produce the same power with less phase amps or more power at the same phase amps and have less strain on the phase wires, although will overheat the windings slightly faster at the same phase amps, and slightly worse overall copper fill.

G063 motors typically come in 5.5T configuration, which means they actually produce less torque per phase amp than the G062 series motors. From the photos that I have seen, they seem to have significantly worse copper fill than G062 motors. They also come with L1121 connectors which are less common than L1019, therefore in my opinion making it an inferior motor to the G062.

G062 uses the same gears and same 88mm clutch as the G060 series, but it spins in the opposite direction, so a G060.750 clutch will not work. Grin sells replacement clutches for $60 plus shipping, and if you look very very hard for custom 88mm clutches on Aliexpress you can find the correct one for $20 bucks.

G062 is available in both 12mm and 14mm axles. The 14mm being superior just due to strength. The other benefit is from the motors I have seen, the 14mm axle version has a single locknut on the cassette side rather than 2 locknuts, what this means is you can disassemble the motor without removing the cassette. Risunmotor on aliexpress seems to sell the 14mm axles. The magnets seem to be epoxied better than some of the older versions of the motor but that is just speculation. The phase wires are slightly higher gauge than the standard bafang L1019 cables. I recommend Risunmotor for these reasons (larger axle, single locknut, possibly better glue on magnets, slightly higher gauge phase wires). Grin sells a more expensive motor that includes a temp sensor.

L1019 phase wires seem to be quite adequate. The phase wires are NOT as large as the Grin 4mm2 (12gauge) phase wires, they are a smaller size (2.5mm2 I believe) as its the largest that will fit through the axle with hall wires, in an insulated jacket, however they are quite adequate, even for power levels in the 5000w range, phase amps up to 90+ amps has been reliable.

Overheating the motor- A temp sensor is by far the best way to monitor, but as a crude alternative, if the shell/case of the motor gets to the point where you cannot leave your finger on it for 1 full second (less than 1 second) it has reached the point of overheating where you may experience burned windings. My theory is if you can leave your finger on the shell for several seconds or longer you are okay, for only 1-2 seconds, use caution, and 1 second or less requires an immediate cool down break, or risking burned/melted windings as you have likely hit overheat temperature. When the motor is at these temperatures, running high current (90 phase amps) through the motor for a period of as little as 30 seconds, can melt the windings.

Motor Breakage - It seems around 1500w-2000w motor power is in the safe zone for an L1019 equipped G062 motor. Increasing beyond this amount is where components can start to break. I think phase amps (torque) is more important than total wattage. Phase amps around 60-75 or less I would consider safe for a stock motor. Bafang has around 85nm listed as max torque which would equate to around 75-80 phase amps as a maximum, I find this to be accurate. The nylon gears seem to slip and therefore can strip and disintegrate when going beyond this amount. The gears usually begin to strip within the first 20 miles of running hard, this has happened to me on several motors and several brand new gear sets. I was able to fix the issue by replacing the gears to half steel half nylon has solved this problem and I have not had a gear issue since. However it brings a new issue. With the stronger gears, going beyond the 75 or so phase amps, instead of the gears slipping it seems to put the pressure on the parallel key / drive key / feather key inside the motor where it will shear off entirely, this has happened to me 5+ times. It also usually seems to happen within the first 5-20 hard miles, just like the nylon gear failure. I was able to solve this issue by replacing with a stainless steel parallel key (or a longer parallel key) which has been holding up much better at 90+ phase amps. However it could be a safety concern- the OEM parallel key may be designed to shear off to prevent motor damage or injury if the motor were to lock up, running steel gears and stainless steel key there is a chance the motor could lock up uncontrollably. Both of these upgrades cost around $30 usd total (gears and parallel key), allowing me to go from 60-75 phase amps up to 90+. Running 90-120 phase amps I have had 3 clutches break, it essentially welded itself where the clutch would no longer freewheel and was in a locked position in both directions, the motor functions fine but the freewheel would not engage (same as a welded clutch), this has happened to 3 of my clutches so far. The bike still pedals fine with a welded clutch and virtually no added drag. Bottom line, when going above 60-75 phase amps, there are multiple motor internals that can break and/or may need to be upgraded, however if keeping below 60-75 phase amps you are much less likely to experience these issues. Lastly magnets can come loose which seems to be caused by overheating the motor. You will hear a rattling sound under maximum torque (low rpm usually) when this happens. This will usually but not always occur before the windings themselves melt, somewhere in the 140-160c sustained temperature range seems to be where the magnet glue will melt.

Venting the motor - Venting the motor has made a HUGE increase in performance. I vented both sides of the motor. I ride hard offroad and have not (yet) experienced any catastrophic damage from venting. The performance gains have been massive, 50% or more increase in total performance.

Tire size - Just like venting the motor, the tire size makes a huge difference in performance. You can simulate these results with the grin simulator. The smaller diameter tire the better, in terms of acceleration performance, hill climb performance, and overall motor overheating performance. For offroad use, or hill climbs, depending on RPM, as 23" tire vs 27.5" tire will have overheating improvement gains as high as 50%+ under certain circumstances.

Continuous Wattage: Between the smaller tire diameter and venting, to maximize the performance of this motor, I am able to run a 5000w+ setup, offroad, with a heavy bike, at 30mph continuous. I average 2000w battery and 1500w motor output watts sustained/continuous for 2+ hours and the winding temps typically stay below 120-130c. I have done a 3000ft climb (1000m) around 10% grade at 20-30mph and saw winding temps of about 130c at the top. The stock motor on 27.5 tires going slower pulling less watts, would have required 2 cooldown breaks along the way. I seem to get around the same performance as a 2000w or 3000w DD motor when running speeds less than 30mph. Very solid performance from a "750w" motor.

Voltage - I run mine at 72v. Running up to 60v seems to be fine, at 72v It gets excessively noisy and does not sound good at maximum voltage. I do not have a firm conclusion on this yet, although the bike will run 40+mph, I generally keep mine below 30-35mph to avoid maximum volts/rpm as it does not sound good at maximum RPM at that high of a voltage, but will continue to test this and have not yet had an issue at 72v.

Maximum phase amps - ~75 phase amps seems to be right around the maximum for a stock motor. G062 motors, vented, with small diameter wheels for optimal heat reduction and upgraded gears/drive key. Running 90 phase amps has been mostly reliable for 1000+ miles of hard riding (continuing to test). I switched to a 80a/120 phase amp controller and melted a motor within just a few miles, way too quickly reading temps above 150c. Thinking it could have been a fluke, or controller issue, or a short, I tested another new motor with a new controller at 65a 150 phase amps and the same thing occurred. The motor reaches operating temp/saturation temperature within a just a mile or two at 100-120c, and once warm, the motor seems to overheat under regular/hard riding conditions within as little as 1 mile. Even taking it relatively "easy" the motor would still hit 150c+ temps within < 1 mile or two of saturation temperature, even without uphill climbs. I ended up melting/shorting another set of windings with this setup, and less than 10 miles total on the brand new motor, under "regular" riding conditions. My conclusion is 120-150 phase amps is just too much even for a vented motor. It may work for a drag race, but for any type of normal riding conditions it seems to be much too high, 90 phase amps was the most I have been able to run reliably. On the bright side the upgraded stainless steel gears, drive pin, and stock L1019 connector did hold up to the 150 phase amps, atleast for the short 20 or so miles worth of testing, the motor windings themselves overheating seemed to be the failure point. My windings have typically failed when reading temps between 150-170c and higher.

I am running 72v, 60a (so nearly 5000w peak), 90 phase amp (105nm torque), with the vented motor and smaller wheel size, upgraded gears and parallel key and a 6.5T (high turn motor), and with reasonable temperature monitoring it seems to be somewhat "reliable". This is what I have settled at for now. The limiting factor being primarily the windings themselves. The motor generally does not overheat under regular/hard riding conditions, once the motor is hot, steep climbs (15%+) and deep sand where using full throttle at max phase amps (20mph and below) it will only sustain the heat for about 30 seconds continuous before overheating.

Hope this helps someone!

Hey Boosted. Great write up here. Thank you for that.

I wrote to Risunmotors via the Aliexpress chat and they say they can't sell me a 14mm axle in the G62 version. I've asked two other resellers and am awaiting an answer. It seems like the G063 is taking over nowadays. Do you know where to purchase a G062 with a 14mm axle? I'm also wanting one with an L1019 connector for use with a Baserunner L10 controller.

I was watching @Ebikebuilderyt 's videos on youtube (and loving them). lol. Where he is adding a thermistor to his. Seems like a PITA but I'll do it if necessary, but I'd rather find them sold with the temp sensor already installed and the grey wire actually present and connected in the L1019 connector. It seems Bafang isn't actually installing the grey temp wire even though they have an L1019 10 pin connector on it. Cheesy economics right there from them.

Anyone know a source for motors? Grin only has the 190mm axle version and it's a 6.5T which he says is super loud, which I'd prefer to avoid. I also heard their custom order of the 6.5T didn't actually come with the grey wire installed in the L1019 connector they found when they received their shipment. But does have the sensor installed. So it's not usable as is anyway.

So I'm looking for a 1000w 6T 170mm width, cassette model with 14mm axle with temp sensor, actual grey temp wire present and an L1019 connector already all connected up and working from the reseller. If that's no longer available these days, and no one knows a source, then it seems that the G63 may be the new and only game in town. But it comes with an L1121 connector instead of the L1019. Which I will then have to figure out where to buy or make an adapter...

Such a PITA right now getting what I want in a Bafang motor. Any known sources for ordering and actually getting what I want?

Anyway, love the original post details and all the further info shared in this thread. It's the best one on the net on these hub motors right now. Thank you.

I plan to do regen with it with dual V7 Grin torque arms, so I think the 14mm axle is required, right?

 

[OkinawaJapan]

that's what I was thinking, I got a G63 with the M14 axle and I have two Grin Tech v7 torque arms lingering in my Amazon shopping cart with a Greater Purpose that awaits

I cracked open the RM G063 1000 DC 5.5 recently and did a surgery on it!

Hey @Ebikebuilderyt . I signed up just to thank you for your youtube video channel. It's been great to watch. Love it.

So your G063 came with 14mm axle by default? I'm wondering if that's the default size now on that model? I looked on the Bafang website but it doesn't list it nor in the dealer manual.
I'm guessing they're standardizing on the 14mm axle from here on out. I say that because I just ordered an ebike and it came with a 14mm rear axle. But no markings on it so no idea what's inside. They claim it is a 1200w motor. But it's got an L915 connector on it. So I'm trying to sort out an adapter for it now to work with a Baserunner L10.

Your VESC videos have me interested in trying one of those controllers in a few months with one of these Bafang hub motors just for fun. But I want to nail down the above questions first.

I just ordered a Grin MAX45 and will use that for regen as it seems the safest right now with the integrated torque arm and it's already wired up for L1019 and to work with the Grin controllers and displays. Plus it's silent which I really like. No gears too to deal with. But the price tag gave me pause for a week before I finally just gave in after reading all the concerns with regen on 12mm axles.

But I'd be willing to give a G62 a go for sharing info if I can get one with the bigger axle. Or a G63 if need be.

If I can't find what I want, then I may try the Leaf bike 1500w DD everone seems to rave about over on ES. We'll see...

 

[OkinawaJapan]

I have welded the clutch. Experimented regen but Its too risky for the drivetrain. I have balanced V7 regen torque arms on both sides which is just enough to be relatively confident they hold.View attachment 190187

So what size is your axle that you found it risky on? 12mm? How would you feel if it were a 14mm axle? No concerns? Or is it also the gears that are a worry for regen?

Perhaps DD is the way to go for full regen? Maybe this is why Grin removed the option to weld the stator on their Bafang motors this past year?

I also wonder how Engwie the Engine Pro 2.0 is faring with their regen implementation with their customers? I don't think they have a torque arm on it right? That's the bike that originally started me down this track once I'd heard it existed. But now I'm glad I didn't order it as it has some limitations with their controller implementation I've read. So Grin is the only game in town currently for being able to implement all the features and options of regen.

I