York County,Pa. USA YCP Bans all ebikes on local rail trail

[J.R.]

With opportunities opening up in State and National Parks, York will be left out if they insist on a formal ban. I have to wonder if access is denied to some groups, that the state and feds allow, could this impact state and federal grants the county depends on?

 

[kathik]

I have not been back to ride the trail since before the meeting. I gave some thought to a trip down yesterday but I don't really enjoy riding when I have to keep one eye opened for those park rangers. Makes me feel like Yogi stealing picnic baskets.

 

[Zilla]

It's similar to what the state did with trails on state land. Ms. Klunk is getting boxed in!

I still like playing cat and mouse

I have not been back to ride the trail since before the meeting. I gave some thought to a trip down yesterday but I don't really enjoy riding when I have to keep one eye opened for those park rangers. Makes me feel like Yogi stealing picnic baskets.

 

[baxterblack]

With opportunities opening up in State and National Parks, York will be left out if they insist on a formal ban. I have to wonder if access is denied to some groups, that the state and feds allow, could this impact state and federal grants the county depends on?

The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution establishes that state laws are subordinate to federal laws and regulations. Put simply, federal law governs state law; however, this is only the case when federal and state laws conflict with one another . Mere overlap on subject matter is not enough to strike down a state statute; it must be impossible to comply with both federal and state law before a federal law overrides a state law.

...and traditionally state law “trumps” local regs.
This won’t escalate to challenge , but again it will inform local regs moving forward.

 

[WalkinTarget]

I still like playing cat and mouse

Hah !! You and me both, brother ! I took a pic of his white Ranger with the dog dish rims sitting there by the entrance to the Days Mill parking lot about 2 months back. Luckily, he's too lazy to leave the SUV so I just kept riding on the trail. Its quite clear to me that this is his favorite haunt, and if you do not park there nor stop there, chances are quite good he isn't going to even see you ride by. I've been riding at a few other trails and have given a few friends rides, and they overwhelmingly love the thing. Even my hardcore single track friends have changed their minds on the usefulness of an ebike after a short spin on mine.

It's coming whether you like it on not, York county officials. You can continue to look like a podunk,, backwoods Mayberry and garner bad P.R., or you can correct your mistake and stop harassing ebikers who have every right to be on the trail system.

 

[Shoestring]

Has anyone discovered who made the complaint that triggered such a non democratic ( without public discussion) regulation.

Yes, I (we) know exactly who filed the complaint and the circumstances under why it was filed. And for the second part of your question- There is NO WRITTEN REGULATION!!! That's the whole issue. Go to York County PA .Gov find the parks section, print out the complete list of park rules and read it for yourself.

 

[Shoestring]

I have not been back to ride the trail since before the meeting. I gave some thought to a trip down yesterday but I don't really enjoy riding when I have to keep one eye opened for those park rangers. Makes me feel like Yogi stealing picnic baskets.

Kathik, please, get over your guilt! Freedom is NOT free, the tyranny of the park leadership is at hand. Help us demand that they abide by the current legal definations in the PA vehicle code regarding pedalcycles or produce whatever regulations are to the contrary. Thus far they have produced nothing other then oral "they've always been illegal" and threats of warnings and citations. QUESTION AUTHORITY ALWAYS

 

[baxterblack]

copy of 8/30/2019 Fed policy memorandum :

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/policy/upload/PM_19-01.pdf

 

[baxterblack]

Nice people for bikes ebike informative share as it relates to Fed policy :

Department of the Interior E-Bike Policy FAQ - Electric Bikes | PeopleForBikes

On Friday, August 30, the Department of the Interior released a new policy to regulate the use of electric bicycles, or e-bikes, on Department lands. There are many myths and misco ...

peopleforbikes.org

 

[Dionigi]

Yes, I (we) know exactly who filed the complaint and the circumstances under why it was filed. And for the second part of your question- There is NO WRITTEN REGULATION!!! That's the whole issue. Go to York County PA .Gov find the parks section, print out the complete list of park rules and read it for yourself.

Somewhat of an apoplectic reply.

 

[joefullam]

Just bought myself a Radrover e-bike. Any news on riding on the rail trail? I have been getting Cortisone shots in my knees for the last 3 years, so my doc may be able to write me a note if I need one...
Have they posted any signs regarding e-bike use on the trail?

 

[Mr. sparky]

Have had 2 Rad bikes for about 3 years and have enjoyed riding the rail trail.....till this year.... WTF .
The wife and I are 65 with health issues, not disabled but less abled. We enjoy a 20 mil. ride followed by dinner at one of the many restaurants along the trail. We do miss it. If there's anything we can do to rectify this situation please let us know [meetings-letters-calls]
Not understanding all the hate the more people that use the trail the more funding it will receive for maintenance and expansion.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I've been following this thread off and on. Very impressed with the determination by our PA ebiking friends who use that trail in holding these local officials to the letter of the law.

Have you good folks contacted your local State Senator, asking for assistance against these beaurocrats? Maybe asking them to accompany you in the next trail meeting?

 

[J.R.]

There's no change in the parks department's position on ebike use in county parks. Recent talks have me a little discouraged. Given that the State now allows class 1 ebikes on trails wherever bikes are allowed, and the Feds have moved to allow ebikes in national parks I'd hoped that would have moved the county to act in favor of ebikes sooner, rather than later. It's painfully slow. I can't see a clear decision being made to save any of the 2019 riding season.

The Chairman of the Park's Advisory Board has asked if we would be willing to bring our class 1 ebikes for the members to see and test ride. This would take place somewhere on the rail trail, not at Nixon Park Nature Center where cycling of any sort is not allowed. Several of us did bring bikes to the meeting in July, but the meeting took place at Nixon Park and the Board were not prepared to test ride bikes.

Thanks for all the support! We'll update the forum as best we can.

 

[dblhelix]

There's no change in the parks department's position on ebike use in county parks. Recent talks have me a little discouraged. Given that the State now allows class 1 ebikes on trails wherever bikes are allowed, and the Feds have moved to allow ebikes in national parks I'd hoped that would have moved the county to act in favor of ebikes sooner, rather than later. It's painfully slow. I can't see a clear decision being made to save any of the 2019 riding season.

The Chairman of the Park's Advisory Board has asked if we would be willing to bring our class 1 ebikes for the members to see and test ride. This would take place somewhere on the rail trail, not at Nixon Park Nature Center where cycling of any sort is not allowed. Several of us did bring bikes to the meeting in July, but the meeting took place at Nixon Park and the Board were not prepared to test ride bikes.

Thanks for all the support! We'll update the forum as best we can.

Which bike did you bring? I’d bring something like my Tern Vektron — small footprint, sedate Bosch ActiveLine motor.

 

[J.R.]

Which bike did you bring? I’d bring something like my Tern Vektron — small footprint, sedate Bosch ActiveLine motor.

We had three class 1 Haibikes, two class 1 BH and one class 1 Specialized. Good variety.

The bi-monthly board meeting at Nixon wasn't the best option for show and tell. This wasn't a special meeting for this one issue, it was their regular business and organizational meeting. Since the chairman requested a meet and test ride, it shows no final decision has been made and hopefully most of the board have open minds.

 

[J.R.]

I should add that anyone riding on county land should be very careful. At the moment Rangers are writing warning tickets, but that could change any day at their discretion. I don't know what the actual charge or fine would be.

If we were able to persuade the county to accept ebikes, it would likely follow the guidelines set by Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. They are:

Class 1 E-bikes are permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads, provided they meet all the following standards:

1. Electric motor less than 750 watts
2. Fully functional pedals
3. Weight not exceeding 75 lbs.
4. Maximum speed less than 20 mph
5. Does not have capacity to be completely self-propelled (must be pedaled to engage electric motor)

Class 2 and 3 E-bikes are not permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads in state forests.

We haven't been told these would be the guidelines, but in all of our discussions I do know class 3 bikes, which are not legal in PA, will not be accepted and class 2 throttles are not looked on favorably.

 

[kathik]

After attending the meeting, I was optimistic that at least class 1 e-bikes would be approved for use on the trail.
As time goes by, I feel we are just being blown off. Legally I don't think they have a leg to stand on in court but I don't want to be the guinea pig to find out. I would really like to know what is causing the hostility towards these bikes.

 

[Senior e-biker]

I should add that anyone riding on county land should be very careful. At the moment Rangers are writing warning tickets, but that could change any day at their discretion. I don't know what the actual charge or fine would be.

If we were able to persuade the county to accept ebikes, it would likely follow the guidelines set by Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. They are:

Class 1 E-bikes are permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads, provided they meet all the following standards:

1. Electric motor less than 750 watts
2. Fully functional pedals
3. Weight not exceeding 75 lbs.
4. Maximum speed less than 20 mph
5. Does not have capacity to be completely self-propelled (must be pedaled to engage electric motor)

Class 2 and 3 E-bikes are not permitted on approved mountain bike trails and roads in state forests.

We haven't been told these would be the guidelines, but in all of our discussions I do know class 3 bikes, which are not legal in PA, will not be accepted and class 2 throttles are not looked on favorably.

I still don't understand why the Park's Advisory Board wants to make such a big issue about Class 2 E-bikes. I think having a throttle actually makes an E-bike

safer to ride, especially when just starting out from a dead stop. JMHO

 

[Senior e-biker]

I still don't understand why the Park's Advisory Board wants to make such a big issue about Class 2 E-bikes. I think having a throttle actually makes an E-bike

safer to ride, especially when just starting out from a dead stop. JMHO

I wasn't aware of last night's meeting, or I would have attended. Hopefully, the next meeting will be posted several days before the meeting.