Yamaha Y-01W AWD & Y-00Z MTB

Stefan, please take this as constructive criticism and reflect on it. You have had a good experience with specialized, and at the moment they are a good choice for a rider looking for warranty support. But the history according to specialized marketing inc. is very different to the lived experience of enthusiasts.

Please try and refrain from spreading specialized marketing inc misinformation.

edit - I went back and took a look at my own posts in this thread.

First was anti Yamaha - aka ohlins stole the hydraulic front drive concept, not yamaha
Subsequent posts were correcting your misinformation, then the usual gravel / mtb banter we get into.

I checked because I'm aware I have owned a lot of yamaha motorbikes over the decades, and my first ebike had two Yamaha motors, so I eas checking for bias
 
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edit - I went back and took a look at my own posts in this thread.
  1. Do you think I will read all the posts again where you eventually corrected the misinformation?
  2. I refuse any further talk if you would continue talking on motorbikes on an e-bicycle forum.
  3. I do not spread Specialized marketing misinformation. Except some situations where I admit I could be wrong, I usually base my Specialized information on own experience.
I must clearly state I am not paid by Specialized. On contrary, I pay them for their products and services. I am a volunteer endorser as I admire what the brand has done to the cycling and e-biking community. Not to the motorcycling one for sure.
 
Specialized doesn't seem to have a problem with motorcycles, they've been the presenting sponsor of this series for several years now. Oh, and just to keep it at least a little on topic, Yamaha was the feature sponsor of this past weekend's event.


1698377536754.png
 
Yamaha has no LBSes here. You can buy a Yamaha e-bike online only, and you get an instruction to unbox and assemble the e-bike yourself.
Now, you might be interested who does the service, repairs and warranty for Yamaha e-bikes here. You click the "Service and Support" in the website and are answered with:

Support
Do you own a Yamaha product and need additional support? Go to each category to discover more content related to the technical support, from frequently asked questions to general questions:
  • Clothing and accessories FAQs
  • e-Bikes FAQs
  • Unboxing and configuration FAQs
  • Product return form
  • The online store regulations
  • Privacy statement.
Now, let us go to e-Bike FAQs:
Shipment
  • How do you send a shipment?
  • When will I get my shipment?
  • How can I track my shipment?
  • What is the shipment cost?
  • Can I get my delivery outside Poland?
Returns
Order & Payment
Warranty
Privacy & Security
Product Information

etc, etc. No word on any LBS.

However, when you dig very deep into the FAQs, you will find two pieces of useful information:
  • You can only buy a Yamaha e-bike directly from Yamaha Motor Europe
  • Upon the start of the ordering procedure, you have to select the dealer who will deliver the e-bike to you.
However, you won't find any dealer list before you start ordering the e-bike. Very inspiring... Not.

The same Yamaha Motor Europe sells:
  • Motorcycles
  • Scooters
  • E-bikes
  • Boat engines
  • Water scooters
  • Boats
  • ATV's
  • Light vehicles
  • Power products (generators, snow removers)
I wonder how qualified a Yamaha dealer must be to handle both boat engines and e-bikes :D If I were to order any online e-bike, I'd rather trust Canyon than Yamaha... Because many people ride Canyon bicycles here, and Bosch E-Bike is a popular system. I have to see anyone riding a Yamaha e-bike yet.

Have you ordered a Moro e-MTB yet?

P.S. You can study the British Yamaha Motor Europe website in your native language. Perhaps you can find some information that I missed? The UK site offers ordering a test ride.
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The dealers are motorcycle dealers. Not bike LBS.

The Polish site does not offer test rides. So much for Yamaha because big bicycle brands all have a good representation in my country.
Maybe Yamaha thinks as much of the rest of the world does.... Who gives a f*ck about Poland? 🙃
 
I am a volunteer endorser as I admire what the brand has done to the cycling and e-biking community. Not to the motorcycling one for sure.

I genuinely don't get what the "motorcycling" comment means in the context of this thread. Yamaha does make actual motorcycles, but their ebikes are definitely ebikes. Class 1s and class 3s, even the concept bike this thread is about is just using their standard mid drive coupled to a front hub motor and is said to be class 3. Its a weird thing to get snobby about, since most of the ebike supplier world has its roots in automotive parts (Brose, who Specialized uses for motor supply and manufacturing, is an automotive supplier).
 
If you read the sentence you quoted you will certainly agree that Specialized did not do very much for the motorcycling community.
Specialized has "bicycle" in its full company name while it is "motor" for the Yamaha branch that makes bicycles as easily as boats :)
 
If you read the sentence you quoted you will certainly agree that Specialized did not do very much for the motorcycling community.
Specialized has "bicycle" in its full company name while it is "motor" for the Yamaha branch that makes bicycles as easily as boats :)

Dude, I think you've taken too many hits off the Specialized marketing departments crack pipe.

Specialized makes a fine bike. Purchasing them because they have excellent dealer support where you live is totally legit, and not purchasing a Yamaha (or whatever other brand) because they don't is also smart. Crapping on the actual bikes because the company that makes them lacks some sort of pure cycling "heritage" is really, really silly.
 
 
Dude, I think you've taken too many hits off the Specialized marketing departments crack pipe.

Specialized makes a fine bike. Purchasing them because they have excellent dealer support where you live is totally legit, and not purchasing a Yamaha (or whatever other brand) because they don't is also smart. Crapping on the actual bikes because the company that makes them lacks some sort of pure cycling "heritage" is really, really silly.
Giant makes excellent e-bikes with Yamaha motors and it is Giant that has a great dealership and warranty. I know as I used to own a Giant e-bike. Giant is a bicycle company. Yamaha is not. The latter is a motor company and it will never shake off its motor past.

Bosch had enough of wits to make a separate business by the name of Bosch E-Bike. And even more wits as to not compete with its own customers.
 
Yamaha is not. The latter is a motor company and it will never shake off its motor past.

Is this as close to self reflection we're going to get from you? You believe the above and will never change your mind.

Ignore the fact yamaha were the first mass produced ebike company, they're amongst the top 5 ebike manufacturers world wide AND sell motors to another top 5 ( giant) .

Ignore the fact they produce musical instruments - NOTHING to do with being a motor manufacturer.

Ignore a global distribution and support network of ebikes because it involves shops that also sell motorbikes ( and outboard motors / water craft etc) .

Why is it so hard to let go of the idea that there is something mystical about a bicycle shop ? Even the holy specialized has accepted direct to consumer sales are a viable option for some customers. There is no way I'd take any of my ebike motors to my closest bicycle mechanic for repairs - he's a traditional road / gravel cyclist who enjoys selling elitist human powered bikes to his circle of friends , but has zero electrical skills and only tolerates ebikes so he can sell the lower priced ones and make $ replacing the bicycle components. To be honest, even my specialized bike shop has difficulty analyzing electrical issues - he's on the phone speaking to HQ. I WOULD trust my local motorbike and car mechanics - they both ride mountain bikes and maintain their own, they have been working on complex electrical systems for decades, and they understand how to rebuild complex gearboxes. The motorbike mechanic has been rebuilding and revalving suspension for decades, He has the skill and equipment to custom machine parts if needed , and an engineers mind - WAY above the average bicycle mechanics aptitude . I have a motorbike engineering friend who has been designing for multiple international companies for decades - he has also done work for bicycle companies. Is that work invalid because he has dealt with yamaha?

Lets face it, Yamaha are not Specialized enough for you.

This from someone who recently accused me of being a biggot when misreading my post !!!!!

Giant makes excellent e-bikes with Yamaha motors and it is Giant that has a great dealership and warranty. I know as I used to own a Giant e-bike. Giant is a bicycle company. Yamaha is not. The latter is a motor company and it will never shake off its motor past.

Bosch had enough of wits to make a separate business by the name of Bosch E-Bike. And even more wits as to not compete with its own customers.

So giant has an excellent warranty ? Did you use it during your brief ownership? You do realize that warranty became void the moment you sold that bike to your bother ?
 
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Giant makes excellent e-bikes with Yamaha motors and it is Giant that has a great dealership and warranty. I know as I used to own a Giant e-bike. Giant is a bicycle company. Yamaha is not. The latter is a motor company and it will never shake off its motor past.

Bosch had enough of wits to make a separate business by the name of Bosch E-Bike. And even more wits as to not compete with its own customers.

Do you actually know how Yamahas dealer support is? They have no presence in Poland, fine, but in the US there are a lot of Yamaha dealers. Many of those dealers probably are green with ebike stuff, but they already have showrooms and workshop sand mechanics, and bikes aren't that difficult to learn. You'd maybe be surprised how much enthusiasm there is for ebikes in motorcycle groups. More people buying ebikes is a good thing, yeah?

As with most non-DTC brands, you are stuck with your local dealer for support. Trust me, there are godawful Specialized dealers out there too (I know of a few around me). Everyone should do their homework on their local dealers before purchasing a bike, no matter the brand.

For warranty, from what I see, Giant is lifetime on the frame/fork and 1 year on everything else (including motor, battery and controller), for original purchaser only. Yamaha is 3 years on the frame, fork and electrical components, 1 year on everything else and they have a process to transfer to a new owner. I'd personally rather have more warranty on the electrical stuff than the frame. I don't know that you can argue that the Yamaha warranty is inferior.
 
So giant has an excellent warranty ?

I own a Giant ebike, and honestly my impression is the company support is lackluster. My local shop is great and willing to harass Giant when necessary to resolve things, but I haven't gotten the impression the company-to-shop support is very impressive. My shop has said as much.

That said the few things I've asked for (mainly wanting parts to swap things around on my bike) have been resolved to my satisfaction. Eventually. I've had no actual issues with the bike in the ~3 years I've owned it. Same with my wifes Liv.
 
For warranty, from what I see, Giant is lifetime on the frame/fork and 1 year on everything else (including motor, battery and controller), for original purchaser only. Yamaha is 3 years on the frame, fork and electrical components, 1 year on everything else and they have a process to transfer to a new owner. I'd personally rather have more warranty on the electrical stuff than the frame. I don't know that you can argue that the Yamaha warranty is inferior.
Giant has a 2-year warranty on e-bikes. I must correct myself on Yamaha: the brand offers a two year warranty on e-bikes, too.
So giant has an excellent warranty ? Did you use it during your brief ownership? You do realize that warranty became void the moment you sold that bike to your bother ?
Things would have been different if I sold my Trance E+ to my brother but I do not sell things to my family members; I give the things to the family. My brother got my Trance E+ as a gift after a year of my ownership. Almost instantly, the Shimano MicroSpline freehub body (the one used for 12-speed drivetrains) broke. In June 2021, that part was a novelty, and because of the pandemic, it was impossible to buy that part in the aftermarket. So my brother went in a Giant dealership with the warranty card, and the rear wheel in his hand.

-- Sir, we honour our warranty for the first 12 months post purchase -- the man said.
-- But it is an e-bike wheel... -- my brother tried to be helpful.
-- What?! An e-bike? Of course, of course... What is your name, sir?
-- It's M****ski. (As brothers, we share our family name, don't we).
-- OK, OK, please leave the wheel and we will do our best!

Indeed, Giant sent the wheel to Shimano, and Shimano replaced the freehub body under the e-bike warranty. (By the way, on the paper that e-bike was still mine, so I would have handled the matter if necessary).

Now, as qualified the Yamaha dealer might be, he has to handle the following equipment:
1698442881171.png

Very nice. I am sure every Yamaha dealer knows what a Shimano MicroSpline or SRAM xD driver is, how you bleed the e-bike brakes or how you adjust a derailleur, for instance. My point is: a Yamaha dealer usually is not a bicycle mechanic. While dealers for Giant or Specialized only do bikes and e-bikes.
Ignore the fact yamaha were the first mass produced ebike company, they're amongst the top 5 ebike manufacturers world wide AND sell motors to another top 5 ( giant) .
Some hard data? Because I thought the size of the bicycle companies was:
  • Giant
  • Trek
  • Specialized
    (The Big Three)
  • Cannondale
    (The Big Four)
And what about Merida, which is unknown in the U.S. but is a great player for Europe & Asia? (For those who do not know this, Merida is a minority but big owner in SBC).
Ignore the fact they produce musical instruments - NOTHING to do with being a motor manufacturer.
Yamaha Motor does not produce musical instruments. Bosch E-Bike does not make car alternators or other automotive equipment either.

They have no presence in Poland, fine, but in the US there are a lot of Yamaha dealers.
Oh, we do have many Yamaha dealers in Poland. Only they handle the motor equipment such as motorcycles here. Another big difference between Specialized and Yamaha is that Yamaha only offers DTC sales in Europe & UK while Specialized work on the mixed model. Meaning, if your Specialized bike or e-bike fails, it will be handled by any Specialized dealer, and Specialized do not need to handle anything from "motorcycles" to "waverunners" :D

I'm glad Yamaha Motor has found its safe haven in the United States but they are almost nobody in Europe (the biggest e-bike market outside China).

This from someone who recently accused me of being a biggot when misreading my post !!!!!
It's "bigot", thank you. (English is only my second language, perhaps it is why I do care).

1698444032576.png

My brother on his Trance E+ the day before the freehub failure. He had found the family history back to our 5th g-grandfather, and we were exploring the villages where our ancestors lived. (We were landless peasants until our grandfather who became a landowner in early 20th c.)
 
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I own a Giant ebike, and honestly my impression is the company support is lackluster. My local shop is great and willing to harass Giant when necessary to resolve things, but I haven't gotten the impression the company-to-shop support is very impressive. My shop has said as much.

That said the few things I've asked for (mainly wanting parts to swap things around on my bike) have been resolved to my satisfaction. Eventually. I've had no actual issues with the bike in the ~3 years I've owned it. Same with my wifes Liv.

We have a similar experience with giant - a great local dealer who negotiated marginal manufacturer support. I was fortunate enough that my giants motor failed in the weeks before the 2 year warranty expired, but faced the uncomfortable realization that the replacement motor had zero warranty as I left the store ! Big tick to specialized here - they have a rolling warranty and my specialized replacement motor came with a fresh 2 years warranty. Unlike Giant, they also have a transferable warranty - so I was reasonably comfortable buying specialized second hand .

Specialized warranty is smazing , some of their shops aren't. Giant warranty is OK but has limits - non transferable , not a rolling warranty, and very much defendant on how well the lbs advocates for you ! It sounds like Stephan was VERY lucky to find a dealer willing to risk his relationship with Giant by interpreting a transfer of ownership so favorably !!! I doubt he would have had a similar experience if it was a major part being replaced - I know Giant tried VERY hard to negate my warranty when the motor failed. But they had been great for all the other failures I experienced ( in 2018 giant were still learning )
 
It's "bigot", thank you. (English is only my second language, perhaps it is why I do care).

That depends on the country - in Australia it's biggot , I think the us ( and your spell checker) has abbreviated it to single g. If I thought you had the flexibility of mind to reconsider your bias, I'd go drag out some old dictionaries and research what the original english version was. But I'm going riding instead

Interesting that you find the need to discuss multi generational Polish heritage in the same post. Proud of your ancestry and dismissive of others? Antagonistic to others based on their membership of a particular group ?
 
That depends on the country - in Australia it's biggot , I think the us ( and your spell checker) has abbreviated it to single g. If I thought you had the flexibility of mind to reconsider your bias, I'd go drag out some old dictionaries and research what the original english version was. But I'm going riding instead

Interesting that you find the need to discuss multi generational Polish heritage in the same post. Proud of your ancestry and dismissive of others? Antagonistic to others based on their membership of a particular group ?
You will not force me to go off-road here, I mean off-topic :) You are good at meandering singletracks :)
Ah, did I mention my Dad spent his 7 years in Australia? :D
 
I'm really enjoying the back and forth within this thread. And I do like that 2 wheel drive Yamaha gravel off-road bike, very much. Interesting how they went with 2 separate style batteries to power it's respective motor. I'm sure or hoping they are the same voltage so a single charger can be used. For years, Bosch has been stealing the spotlight with ebike drive innovation, so it's nice to see conservative Yamaha step up.

And you keep tilting at those windmills, Don Stefan!

As ebikes mature here in the US, I expect those Yamaha motorcycle dealers who sell their ebikes will be up to snuff, on par with any local bike shop selling the same bike.

How can anyone not be impressed with Yamaha? Makers of some fine motorcycles. Their music division makes outstanding musical instruments. Over in the boating world, their 4 stroke outboards are at the top of their class. This is the company that is responsible for the powerplant in the Toyota 2000GT. That car is to Japan motoring cars as the Lamborghini Miura or Ferrari Daytona is to the Italians; the Ford GT and Corvette to us Americans. The original Ford Taurus SHO cylinder heads and intake tract were designed and built by Yamaha. It was Fords first production 24 valve V6 engine.

And in near 19 thousand miles on my Haibike's Yamaha PW drive; not a glitch noted in the motor, the display, the handlebar controller, the wiring harnesses nor the batteries I have for the H-Bike. Count me as a Yamaha fan forever.
 
Aha. Not a Yamaha, isn't it? Did Yamaha made that e-bike?
I had no chance to ride an e-bike labelled "Bosch" yet. I rode no "Brose" labelled e-bike. I have never met e-bikes from Shimano, Fazua, or TQ. All of them are making motors and e-bike systems. Neither of the motor manufacturers competes with their OEM customers.

Yamaha should create an E-Bike division. They didn't and they compete with Giant and other Yamaha motor OEMs.

I would even say no single word in this thread (Yamaha will survive without me) but I could not stay silent when I saw those two idiotic concept e-bikes. E-bike power steering, anyone? :D :D :D

Come on, even SRAM has joined the e-bike motor bandwagon but SRAM makes no e-bikes either!
 
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