Yamaha Y-01W AWD & Y-00Z MTB

[PDoz]

You must be aware I am one of the two e-bikers in the whole Mazovian gravel cycling community (my brother is ready to convert to a mechanical gravel bike when we are at it). E-bikes do not fit the format, especially because of the relatively short range. I could complete my 263 km ultramarathon only because I could recharge my batteries at an overnight stay. That's also one of the reasons I have never bought the gravel version of the Creo, and am working out to start in the Mazovian Gravel race on a traditional bicycle in 2024.

How ironic, you call Australia a backwater yet there are only 2 evolved gravel bikes in your region?

For what it's worth, in my town of 4500 people I'm aware of 3 gravel ebikes. None of them are used for structured events.- just rides with their social groups . ( usually day rides around the 100 km mark - mostly on gravel)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Plus you are using existing infrastructure - most likely researched by the ride organizer.

With perfect infrastructure around, the organiser chooses wild singletracks instead.

This one directly along the sandy cliff of the Vistula.

How ironic, you call Australia a backwater yet there are only 2 evolved gravel bikes in your region?

Gravel cycling is all about the self-sufficiency. E-bikes simply do not belong there.

P.S. An MTB would be perfect for that kind of terrain but it would be too slow on good gravel or asphalt. You would not make the average speed of 25.4 km/h on a 104 km mixed terrain ride if you rode an MTB (required crusing speed of over 30 km/h including the rough terrain).

 

[PDoz]

P.S. An MTB would be perfect for that kind of terrain but it would be too slow on good gravel or asphalt. You would not make the average speed of 25.4 km/h on a 104 km mixed terrain ride if you rode an MTB (required crusing speed of over 30 km/h including the rough terrain).

Intriguing prospect. At 13 yo , my daughter rode my giant emtb along the Licola to Jamieson road - a gravel road crossing the nearby ranges . About 90 km long - and this was after she had done a 59 km mtb ride -we weren't tracking total elevation but there's at least one 1600 m range to cross. She was sitting on the bikes 25 k cut off up the hills, hitting 75 k downhill ( scary trying to keep up in our 4x4) . I'm certain she averaged over 30 k and have no doubt she could go faster on my levo SL. My 14 yo could do it easily on his unpowered reign. So I guess a reasonably fit person could easily do a gravel ride on a mtb ?

Me? No way, I'd fall asleep from boredom.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So I guess a reasonably fit person could easily do a gravel ride on a mtb ?

Yes, some do. Only they never win ultramarathons

FYI, UCI gravel racing rules name 60% of gravel, off-road, or cobblestones. The remaining 40% is asphalt. MTB riders stand no chance there (the aero position on the gravel bike, narrower tyres, etc. make the gravel bike the winner). UCI specifically names the gravel bike as one having drop handlebars.

Katarzyna Niewiadoma (Poland), the 2023 UCI Gravel Female World Champion. (I'd like to see anyone lifting the Yamaha AWD concept e-bike that way)

 

[Djangodog]

Being e-bikes, I doubt that either bike is designed with the intention of being used in a sanctioned event.

These “concept bikes” are typical, where they are just testing the waters.

 

[jabberwocky]

Its a "gravel bike" only in the sense that using the word gravel helps build buzz for a concept bike because its the popular thing in cycling now.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Being e-bikes, I doubt that either bike is designed with the intention of being used in a sanctioned event.

Of course! If you want to buy a proper and pretty lightweight gravel e-bike, you can order a Specialized Creo 2 even today I promise I could lift it up with one hand.

Its a "gravel bike" only in the sense that using the word gravel helps build buzz for a concept bike because its the popular thing in cycling now.

Yamaha makes the Wabash RT, a gravel e-bike today It means the brand is not unaware what a "gravel e-bike" is
The only thing similar to a gravel e-bike in the AWD is the drop handlebars

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Morning Ride | Strava

View Kasia Niewiadoma's ride on October 21, 2023 | Strava

www.strava.com

Something to tease @PDoz This is the result of Ms. Niewiadoma from her "morning ride" in Bentonville USA of 21st of October this year She needs no e-bike. Pay attention to the distance, elevation gain, average and max speed. I wonder why she does not ride an MTB...

 

[PDoz]

Morning Ride | Strava

View Kasia Niewiadoma's ride on October 21, 2023 | Strava

www.strava.com

View attachment 165377
Something to tease @PDoz This is the result of Ms. Niewiadoma from her "morning ride" in Bentonville USA of 21st of October this year She needs no e-bike. Pay attention to the distance, elevation gain, average and max speed. I wonder why she does not ride an MTB...

She doesn't ride a mtb because she doesn't need one for the route she chose. Just like I wouldn't need to ride a gravel bike to wander around on gravel roads unless I felt the need to brag about my speed / distance etc. it's not rocket science

That yamaha concept bike doesn't match YOUR idea of what an egravel bike should be - big deal, it's a concept bike exploring ideas. You took the bait and have increased social media traffic, and increased their marketing. You have given an opportunity for people to reflect on the fact Yamaha were producing ebikes for 20 years before specialized, they're a massive global ebike manufacturer, AND know a thing or two about long distance gravel road travel. Do I need to dig up a picture of my 1982 yamaha tenere ? There's one of me riding in an event with over 1000 entrants.....You've also galvanized a few peoples decision to never become one of those strava suckers on egravel bikes trying to pretend to be racers . Congratulations, you may have resulted in someone deciding to buy whatever Yamaha eventually produces.

Why the hate for fugly bikes? My giant fugly was pretty good in it's time at doing what it was designed to do. Function over form. I'd argue my levo sl has made compromises to look pretty - namely a concealed battery that means bringing the muddy thing inside to charge. I'd personally like to try riding a well engineered 2x2 travel e-bike with thrue technical off road potential. That Yamaha doesn't achieve that imho - it's a marketing tool that has done the job well, NOT a pre production engineering masterpiece.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the fact Yamaha were producing ebikes for 20 years before specialized,

They haven't learnt since.

they're a massive global ebike manufacturer

In what area? Giant is the global e-bike manufacturer. Yamaha is one of global e-bike motor manufacturers. It is like saying Brose, Mahle, Shimano, Fazua or TQ are leading e-bike manufacturers.

Do I need to dig up a picture of my 1982 yamaha tenere ?

Was it a gravel bicycle? I guess not.

Why do you always veer off-topic?

 

[jabberwocky]

She doesn't ride a mtb because she doesn't need one for the route she chose. Just like I wouldn't need to ride a gravel bike to wander around on gravel roads unless I felt the need to brag about my speed / distance etc. it's not rocket science

Bike segmentation is like half marketing anyway. I mean, if you do a specific thing all the time you can ride a bike optimized for that one thing, but there is a ton of overlap between road endurance bikes, gravel bikes, cyclocross bikes and touring bikes. Ebikes blur those lines even more because you can trade efficiency (air drag and rolling resistance) for less optimal bike layouts and all it really costs you is a bit of battery use. Its not like on traditional bikes where losing 5% efficiency can be the difference between finishing the ride or not, or being able to keep up or not.

Manufacturers marketing teams like to hype up those differences because selling a gravel bike to someone who already has a road bike is often easier than selling any bike to a new customer.

Why the hate for fugly bikes? My giant fugly was pretty good in it's time at doing what it was designed to do. Function over form. I'd argue my levo sl has made compromises to look pretty - namely a concealed battery that means bringing the muddy thing inside to charge. I'd personally like to try riding a well engineered 2x2 travel e-bike with thrue technical off road potential. That Yamaha doesn't achieve that imho - it's a marketing tool that has done the job well, NOT a pre production engineering masterpiece.

I don't really think its even that ugly. It does look more like a mountain bike than a road bike IMO.

 

[jabberwocky]

In what area? Giant is the global e-bike manufacturer. Yamaha is one of global e-bike motor manufacturers. It is like saying Brose, Mahle, Shimano, Fazua or TQ are leading e-bike manufacturers.

Yamaha makes a pretty extensive range of actual bikes, in addition to being a motor supplier to other manufacturers. No idea how popular they are worldwide, but they are definitely pushing into ebikes hard in the US.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

they are definitely pushing into ebikes hard in the US.

Yes, I do agree for their sales efforts in the United States. They suck in Europe with their D2C sales model. You can find Giant bikes and e-bikes everywhere. Giant has a substiantial LBS network in Europe. Yamaha does not.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yamaha makes a pretty extensive range of actual bikes

I'd like to see a single traditional bicycle the brand makes. They don't. They are not a bicycle company. They are a motor company. They lack any experience in cycling.
Besides, professional musicians do not play Yamaha instruments such as guitars, either.

 

[jabberwocky]

Yes, I do agree for their sales efforts in the United States. They suck in Europe with their D2C sales model. You can find Giant bikes and e-bikes everywhere. Giant has a substiantial LBS network in Europe. Yamaha does not.

In the US they are relying on their extensive motorcycle/atv dealer network, which has the upside of already being established and widespread, but the downside of not having experience with bicycles. YMMV. The dealer local to me is very enthusiastic about ebikes (I follow them on FB), so I'd assume their employees are invested.

I'd like to see a single traditional bicycle the brand makes. They don't. They are not a bicycle company. They are a motor company. They lack any experience in cycling.
Besides, professional musicians do not play Yamaha instruments, either.

I guess that depends on whether you consider ebikes bicycles. They are like a lot of other ebike-only brands out there in that sense. I don't really see the issue, unless you want both and insist they be from the same brand.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I guess that depends on whether you consider ebikes bicycles. They are like a lot of other ebike-only brands out there in that sense. I don't really see the issue, unless you want both and insist they be from the same brand.

Canyon is a good example of a brand that understands cycling, and is good in e-bikes, too. Even if Canyon is a D2C company, cyclists trust Canyon worldwide.
It is not a coincidence the Polish gravel champion represents the Canyon-SRAM team.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I'd like to see a single traditional bicycle the brand makes. They don't. They are not a bicycle company. They are a motor company. They lack any experience in cycling.
Besides, professional musicians do not play Yamaha instruments such as guitars, either.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Carlos has been innovative in everything Was not him the first professional guitarist to play through a solid-state amplifier*?
I hope Dave that you as a PRS guitarist still trust in the old good tubes!
-----------
*) Gallien-Kruger remind me of Riese & Muller In fact, G-K bass amplifiers rule!

In another Galaxy many years ago. My guitarist sitting by my G-K bass amp and cab.

Me at the times I owned that G-K gear.

 

[jabberwocky]

Canyon is a good example of a brand that understands cycling, and is good in e-bikes, too. Even if Canyon is a D2C company, cyclists trust Canyon worldwide.
It is not a coincidence the Polish gravel champion represents the Canyon-SRAM team.

Eh, I don't really believe that you need to make conventional bikes to understand cycling, though I'm sure thats what brands that spend a lot of sponsorship dollars would like people to think (that is, after all, the primary reason to spend sponsorship dollars). The bikes Yamaha is making and selling are not for hyper competitive racers anyway, they are general purpose ebikes for popular cycling catagories, and that just ain't rocket science. Everything that isn't electric is the same parts that every other manufacturer uses, frame manufacturing is probably out of the same factories as other brands, the actual design and geometry is not really as arcane as people pretend and Yamaha definitely has the resources to hire people who know how to do that.

I mean, I come from a conventional cycling background and most of my bikes are traditional cycling brands of some sort (my bike room currently has bikes by Ibis, Soma, Raleigh and Motobecane and ebikes by Giant, Liv and YT), but sponsoring a TDF team or professional gravel racers or whatever doesn't give some special insight you need to make a gravel ebike for normals.

 

[PDoz]

So we have established yamaha has a long history with ebikes, and make motors for what stephan considers to be the top selling ebike manufacturer (I'm not sure about this , giant is in the top 5, so are yamaha , merida, and a chinese company - I can't find a ranking but would be surprised if the chinese company is not top, yamaha second becuase they cater to teh huge japanese mobility market )

This is a thread about a concept bike USING TWO MOTORS - so who better than yamaha to push this - they have a long history with ebikes, some (shared) history with 2x2 - AND a dealer network with teh mechanical skills to work on motorized vehicles . NB the dealer network is what's stopping me from suggesting the logical alternative for a 2x2 ebike - STEALTH , their factory is right next door to the engineer who pioneered 2x2 decades ago , and they have worked with him in the past......calm down stephan, I'm not suggesting you buy an ebike with throttle