Yamaha Y-01W AWD & Y-00Z MTB

[Stefan Mikes]

Looks like fun, but does your photo represent majority of gravel bike owners?

Yes, it does. A gravel bike, a lightweight drop handlebar bike of relaxed geometry running pretty wide tyres and with an off-road drivetrain is a well defined thing (some gravel bikes come with flat handlebars but then they have even more relaxed geometry and a carbon fork). The additional feature of a proper gravel bike are multiple bosses for bikepacking.

Even Yamaha makes the Wabash RT, which is a pretty decent gravel e-bike.

The Gravel Grinder, VA, USA, courtesy @Readytoride .

 

[None]

Yes, it does. A gravel bike, a lightweight drop handlebar bike of relaxed geometry running pretty wide tyres and with an off-road drivetrain is a well defined thing (some gravel bikes come with flat handlebars but then they have even more relaxed geometry and a carbon fork). The additional feature of a proper gravel bike are multiple bosses for bikepacking.

Still doesn't mean that majority of gravel bike owner serve the same purpose as you.
Just as most SUV or Jeep owner don't take theirs for off-road driving.
Unless you have actual data to support you claim, you're only stating your own sample pool and only stating the anecdotal data.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Still doesn't mean that majority of gravel bike owner serve the same purpose as you.
Just as most SUV or Jeep owner don't take theirs for off-road driving.
Unless you have actual data to support you claim, you're only stating your own sample pool and only stating the anecdotal data.

Just open a website of any serious bicycle manufacturer in the section of "gravel/adventure".
As I said, even Yamaha knows what a "gravel e-bike" is, and the latest propositions are just ridiculous. Not the first and not the last automotive company that tried their "conceptual e-bikes".

Even Yamaha knows what a "gravel e-bike" is all about (Wabash RT).

 

[None]

Just open a website of any serious bicycle manufacturer in the section of "gravel/adventure".
As I said, even Yamaha knows what a "gravel e-bike" is, and the latest propositions are just ridiculous. Not the first and not the last automotive company that tried their "conceptual e-bikes".
Even Yamaha knows what a "gravel e-bike" is all about (Wabash RT).

Can't find any supporting data to support your claim and ask me to look them up; which proves my point; you're just full of BS.
What manufacture designate their gravel ebikes to do doesn't represent the majority of of gravel ebike owners, let alone UCI sanctioned gravel bike racing.
My disposition on SUVs is exactly what's going on with majority of SUV owners.

As I said before:

Maybe your definition of gravel bike is all about lightweight, doesn't mean everyone else go by that definition.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Next you will say Wikipedia is not the trustworthy data source Deny as much as you like. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravel_bicycle

 

[None]

Next you will say Wikipedia is not the trustworthy data source Deny as much as you like. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravel_bicycle

Does that wiki page provide any actual data among the majority of gravel bike owners?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As I say, deny as much as you like.
The gravel bike is very well defined. It is hard for a gravel cyclist not to ride a gravel bike.

It is like saying "Could you provide data on what bikes are owned by a majority of road cyclists?" or "What are the hard data on the bikes owned by mountain trail bikers?"

Are you serious or want to prove you are right? Nobody stops you from buying the latest Yamaha contraption when and if it becomes available if you want to proudly show off how great gravel cyclist you are in a city centre.

 

[JRA]

None, try the ignore feature? While it is all of our prerogative to have views on the world of ebikes, some are not in line with our personal views and disputing them on forums like this usually lead nowhere. To those that follow the BS spread around here Caveat Emptor.

As far as "gravel bike" as a thing it has been a bit over sold to the public by manufacturers and now that the UCI is involved it really has gotten out of hand. Think back to the early days of cycling where all bicycles were "gravel" bikes because that is what the primary road surface was before the advent of bitumen based road surfaces. Some of us have always ridden "gravel" due to our local riding environment since we were kids. Where I live there are miles of logging access roads that are made of rock and dirt and the consistency of the surface varies greatly. To the point I have made up a grading system from 1-5. 1 being so well traveled and packed that it is almost like pavement to 5 which is basically just semi packed down road base rocks with sharp edges that are a nightmare on a bike with narrow tires and high psi.

So the Yamaha above does make some sense to me in that it would be able to handle all 5 grades of gravel due to the tire size. I have gravitated to mainly riding my eMTB with wider low PSI here in my area because I am more confident in all situations as far as stability and flat avoidance. The FS is also nicer, for me, than a rigid frame/fork providing a compliant ride as well. I can still ride pavement at a good enough pace to get to the goods as well as being able to take advantage of the single track and sand based trails and beaches in my area.

 

[None]

As I say, deny as much as you like.
The gravel bike is very well defined. It is hard for a gravel cyclist not to ride a gravel bike.

What exactly have I denied?
Whatever gravel bikes are being defined, doesn't mean they are used as they defined.
Is it hard for a gravel cyclist not to ride a gravel bike? how hard is it? can you specify?

It is like saying "Could you provide data on what bikes are owned by a majority of road cyclists?" or "What are the hard data on the bikes owned by mountain trail bikers?"

Do you honestly need data to know that most SUVs are not driven off-road?
I never said majority of bikes owned are road bikes nor mountain trail bikers, please learn to read.

Are you serious or want to prove you are right? Nobody stops you from buying the latest Yamaha contraption when and if it becomes available if you want to proudly show off how great gravel cyclist you are in a city centre.

Seems to me that you want to be proven right but could offer zero evidence to support your claims.
I never claimed anything about myself in this thread. Seems you me you're the one posting your picture and claiming your gravel racing experience, which I said: looks like fun.. but that's not what majority of cyclist do on their gravel bikes.

 

[jabberwocky]

Its obviously not really targeted at traditional cyclists, so the slightly strange appearance probably isn't a negative. Its far from the goofiest looking ebike I've seen, in any case. Yeah, if your riding buddies are gonna judge you for having a bike that doesn't look traditional (and you care about their opinions for some reason), definitely don't buy this.

Whether it makes sense as a gravel bike (or mountainbike, which IMO it looks better suited as), eh. It really looks designed to generate buzz as a concept more than to be a coherent answer to the desires of some cycling segment. Frame, tires and fork say MTB, built in racks say distance touring or commuting, shallow drop bars say gravel and the built in aero bars and integrated bar/stem say roadie.

I personally think 2wd on a bike is a solution in search of a problem. I guess its an interesting technology demonstrator. If it ever actually goes on sale I bet it won't look like that and I also bet they don't sell very many.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

but that's not what majority of cyclist do on their gravel bikes.

What do they do then? Any hard facts?

 

[PDoz]

What do they do then? Any hard facts?

Sit in cafes sipping coffee / posting on the socials. 99.97 % of the gravel riders I've seen were doing this, the other 0.03% is somewhere in the Stans , at least he was last time I checked his social media feed.

If all you know is hammers, everything looks like a nail.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Sit in cafes sipping coffee / posting on the socials.

Perhaps in your country

The last I checked, they were riding for 180 km on a very cold day

If all you know is hammers, everything looks like a nail.

If you know more than hammers, you would certainly ride a road bike on a technical singletrack.

 

[Djangodog]

I think that we have to remember that these are “concept” bikes. I doubt that Yamaha will ever produce them.

The gravel bike’s frame looks like it would be lacking in vertical compliance and the fixed stem/handlebar is a trend that I can’t get behind. Racks that can’t be adjusted or customized and lack of free space on the frame and fork for gear and bottles would probably hurt sales. I imagine that the inverted suspension fork, extra battery and hub motor will add weight and negatively affect handling.

The power steering on the mountain bike seems unnecessary, but they may be unveiling these concepts as a placeholder for intellectual property.

 

[BlackHand]

The power steering on the mountain bike seems unnecessary, but they may be unveiling these concepts as a placeholder for intellectual property.

They were apparently testing the same thing on competitive motocross motorcycles last year. It uses a torque sensor to gauge rider input. Allows the bike to gain maneuverability at low speed and stability at high speed.

 

[BlackHand]

Sit in cafes sipping coffee / posting on the socials. 99.97 % of the gravel riders I've seen were doing this

I know you're just trolling, but this isn't remotely plausible. Now if you had said brewpubs instead of cafes...

BTW easily 99% of the MTB I see are being used as ballast on the back of very clean SUVs.

 

[PDoz]

I know you're just trolling, but this isn't remotely plausible. Now if you had said brewpubs instead of cafes...

BTW easily 99% of the MTB I see are being used as ballast on the back of very clean SUVs.

THAT is exactly what I'm saying - if you don't mtb ride, then you believe all mtb's sit on the back of suv's, if I enjoy a mocha on the way to mtb rides, I only see gravel bikes at cafes ( because I've NEVER seen them on technical mtb trails) .

Stef Anne only sees bikes at supported events or when his eyes are watering from the chille sauce.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

THAT is exactly what I'm saying - if you don't mtb ride, then you believe all mtb's sit on the back of suv's, if I enjoy a mocha on the way to mtb rides, I only see gravel bikes at cafes ( because I've NEVER seen them on technical mtb trails) .

If you do not ride gravel, you can only see gravel bikes on social media. Or, more precisely, you avoid seeing gravel bikes if you do not know how they do look like I can also think you cannot buy gravel bikes in your backwater country so you do not know what they are

Specialized gravel bikes
Trek gravel bikes
Giant gravel bikes
Cannondale gravel bikes
Canyon gravel bikes
Marin gravel bikes
...

Stef Anne only sees bikes at supported events or when his eyes are watering from the chille sauce.

I attribute this silly comment to the fact it is hard to gather people for a group ride in the sparsely populated Australia. A "gravel group ride" is the essence of the sport, as it is simply boring to ride alone. It does not need to be a "supported event". Someone trusted in the community just announces "Are you riding to Warka for apple? Date, time, place, GPX" and so we do ride to Warka as a group.

Sometimes our group is stopped for a while by an unexpected event crossing our route (then there is the time to take pictures).

At other times several groups have to take a ferry in turns...

Subgroups of different skill/speed zoom through the orchards...

Often, families take part in the gravel group rides.

Of course, we do stop for coffee, cake or soup in the middle of a group ride...

...and, naturally, we celebrate yet another successful trip post-ride...

...but we are mostly riding

If I were like PDoz, I would negate the very existence of the MTB and trail riding but I am not him and even owned an e-MTB (only to discover it was not for me). Funny to think the sport of "gravel cycling" with all its ethos and customs was invented in the United States but there are so many Americans who have no clue about it. Again, the United States is the home of "craft beer brewing" but so many Americans still think Bud means beer

 

[PDoz]

If you do not ride gravel, you can only see gravel bikes on social media. Or, more precisely, you avoid seeing gravel bikes if you do not know how they do look like I can also think you cannot buy gravel bikes in your backwater country so you do not know what they are

Specialized gravel bikes
Trek gravel bikes
Giant gravel bikes
Cannondale gravel bikes
Canyon gravel bikes
Marin gravel bikes
...

I attribute this silly comment to the fact it is hard to gather people for a group ride in the sparsely populated Australia. A "gravel group ride" is the essence of the sport, as it is simply boring to ride alone. It does not need to be a "supported event". Someone trusted in the community just announces "Are you riding to Warka for apple? Date, time, place, GPX" and so we do ride to Warka as a group.


Sometimes our group is stopped for a while by an unexpected event crossing our route (then there is the time to take pictures).


At other times several groups have to take a ferry in turns...


Subgroups of different skill/speed zoom through the orchards...



Often, families take part in the gravel group rides.


Of course, we do stop for coffee, cake or soup in the middle of a group ride...


...and, naturally, we celebrate yet another successful trip post-ride...


...but we are mostly riding

If I were like PDoz, I would negate the very existence of the MTB and trail riding but I am not him and even owned an e-MTB (only to discover it was not for me). Funny to think the sport of "gravel cycling" with all its ethos and customs was invented in the United States but there are so many Americans who have no clue about it. Again, the United States is the home of "craft beer brewing" but so many Americans still think Bud means beer

Funny, there's not a single photo in that post with someone riding on gravel.

Let me give you some perspective, I can't ride off my property without riding on gravel

If I turn right at the end of my driveway, I can ride gravel for thousands of km. But we don't need a narrowly defined style of bike to do that - our kids were riding on that with balance bikes before they could walk, my wife rides it on her step through, and yes I'll ride my levo sl on that when I feel like it. So yes, I do understand why you find it boring to ride gravel alone

As for group rides with friends - I'll confess to becoming a lot more selective with age / experience. I've been on organised rides with thousands of people , although that was 30 years ago. Now, I'd prefer 3-6 good mates for company, although it was a bit of fun riding with 100 other emtb's in 2018. Australia sparsely populated? Show me 100 ebikes riding together in poland in 2018.

BTW , someone suggests your rides and routes. Plus you are using existing infrastructure - most likely researched by the ride organizer. I've organized large multi day group rides so have some idea of the logistics involved. Admittedly these were a bit more adventurous than your " gravel rides"

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Let me give you some perspective, I can't ride off my property without riding on gravel

As a civilized European country (and the most developed of the Poland's provinces, Mazovia), we do not have many gravel roads here except for the forests and more backward areas.

So we take it the hard way and ride off road.

If this is not gravel then I don't know what gravel is.

I'd like to see the Yamaha Y-01W AWD there

Plus you are using existing infrastructure - most likely researched by the ride organizer.

The ride organizer does everything possible to get the group off the asphalt and onto the gravel, dirt, sand, mud, and singletrack. We are known as "people who ride across the road" If a gravel group ride organizer can see a perfect asphalt road just 100 m away a singletrack, I can bet the singletrack would be chosen

Show me 100 ebikes riding together in poland in 2018.

You must be aware I am one of the two e-bikers in the whole Mazovian gravel cycling community (my brother is ready to convert to a mechanical gravel bike when we are at it). E-bikes do not fit the format, especially because of the relatively short range. I could complete my 263 km ultramarathon only because I could recharge my batteries at an overnight stay. That's also one of the reasons I have never bought the gravel version of the Creo, and am working out to start in the Mazovian Gravel race on a traditional bicycle in 2024.