Yamaha Y-01W AWD & Y-00Z MTB

None · Oct 20, 2023

Yamaha Y-01W AWD & Y-00Z MTB

https://insideevs.com/news/691781/yamaha-new-ebikes-japan-mobility-show-2023/

None · Oct 20, 2023

Why Yamaha's wild new electric bike has two-wheel drive

Yamaha is set to unveil an impressive new electric bicycle design in the coming days. In addition to a futuristic...

electrek.co

I remember Yamaha had a 2WD dirtbike back in the days when they were still interested in the Dakar race.
It was too heavy to be competitive in competition, but IRL I'd imagine 2wd would be great for trail riding.

HERITAGE BIKE: Yamaha WR450F 2-Trac - ADB Magazine

When this bike suddenly appeared I thought that it was the next big step in dirtbike tech but Yamaha only made 250 of the WR450F 2-Trac.

adbmag.com.au

PDoz · Oct 20, 2023

37 years ago I was sitting around a campfire with a group of motorbike riders , listening to a bearded engineering guy talk about 2wd motorbikes and all the potential benefits. Much of that night was lost to alcohol, but I've stayed in contact and watched him turn a bultaco piston into the bike that inspired that yamaha 450 . BTW , It was an ohlins engineer who developed that 450 yamaha 2wd system. - NOT yamaha , and my understanding is the system was shelved due to cost / complexity - NOT weight. He still has a passion for 2wd, although his ebike connection has moved towards internal drive systems and his commercial engineering skills are in too high a demand for him to dabble with 2wd at the moment.

I hope the day comes when manufacturers embrace 2wd , I think the benefits were demonstrated by that yamaha 450 , or even the NZ unco 2wd electric motorbike. But I'm not convinced we need high power front drive to emtb's . Riders of that yamaha +/- the christini 2wd motorbikes +/- a local who developed a 2wd cr500 - universally they prefer more power to the rear than front - retaining the ability to power steer the rear. The cr500 rider was crazy / good enough to power steer both wheels...but he is from the extreme end of the adrenaline gene pool! ( for what it's worth , the other riders were also highly competitive crazed adrenaline junkies, but mr cr500 , well, lets just say we are not all created equal)

Djangodog · Oct 22, 2023

There is so much that I don’t like about both of these concepts that I don’t know where to start. I suppose that they will get good publicity for Yamaha and get people talking. If that is the intent, then I guess that it’s not in vain.

DaveMatthews · Oct 22, 2023

That 2WD must weigh a ton!

Stefan Mikes · Oct 22, 2023

Perhaps I'm weird but these Yamaha e-bikes do not look like bicycles and seem ugly to me.

None · Oct 23, 2023

Ugly or not, it's something new, something different.
If you don't like the looks, you don't have to look at it when you're riding anyway.

Stefan Mikes · Oct 23, 2023

None said:
If you don't like the looks, you don't have to look at it when you're riding anyway.

I do not want my cycling buddies to laugh at me

Do you know what the part of "gravel bike" definition is? "Lighweight, so you can lift it and carry". The Yamaha does not look lightweight in any way to me. Also, I would unfortunately need to look at the e-bike I'm riding.

A good thing is Yamaha E-Bike does even not try its luck in Europe.

This is what Yamaha thinks a "gravel e-bike" looks like...

And this is how a gravel e-bike really looks like.

The whole frame triangle of the Yamaha is built with hardware where that space is for the rider and the stuff he/she takes for a long ride, starting with two or three water-bottles. The rear rack simply does not belong there.

None · Oct 23, 2023

Stefan Mikes said:
I do not want my cycling buddies to laugh at me Do you know what the part of "gravel bike" definition is? "Lighweight, so you can lift it and carry". The Yamaha does not look lightweight in any way to me. Also, I would unfortunately need to look at the e-bike I'm riding.

If you are riding to impress someone, doesn't mean every else ride for the same purpose.
Maybe your definition of gravel bike is all about lightweight, doesn't mean everyone else go by that definition.
Ebikes are heavy in general, 29" tires are heavy in general, gravel bikes are not about lightweight, but durable and long hours of riding, lift & carry is only when you can't ride, which is minority of time in gravel cycling.

Stefan Mikes · Oct 23, 2023

None said:
Ebikes are heavy in general, 29" tires are heavy in general, gravel bikes are not about lightweight, but durable and long hours of riding, lift & carry is only when you can't ride, which is minority of time in gravel cycling.

The latest Specialized Creo 2 (a true gravel e-bike) weighs less than 32 lbs. My Vado SL in the modified form is 37 lbs. The Yamaha with the drop handlebars is marketed as a "gravel e-bike". It is a sad joke but not a gravel e-bike

Gravel cycling assumes you need to carry your bike over some obstacle, such as a ford, a causeway, a very steep & sandy hill. I have completed a 163 mile gravel ultramarathon on my Vado SL, so I think I have a say.

Try it on the "gravel e-bike" Yamaha.

None · Oct 23, 2023

You have a say for you, for yourself.
But don't confuse that with the general cycling public, nor general gravel bike owners.
Priorities for you for a gravel bike may not be the same for everyone else.

JRA · Oct 23, 2023

I have been using a front hub drop bar bike for 6yrs now as an all road ride. 700c wheels with 45c tires so it can't be expected to get too rowdy but I have been surprised at some of the places I have gone on them, I've built 3 now, from beach riding to 9,000' Rocky Mtn. mining roads and a lot of other surfaces in between. This is my latest,

I always am pedaling away trying to stay on top of the motor output, which is watt variable of course although I don't use PAS due to the two speed bb drive, and many times especially on soft sand have felt the two wheel drive effect that the motor adjusted to the proper output and human input with no motor influence on the drive and proper gear selection allows me to still be going even with narrow tires. Part of a true AWD system is the ability to allow power to flow to each wheel independently and in automotive use they use a viscous coupler of some sort. Not sure how Yamaha plans to achieve that but when riding I act as it by feeling the need for more torque at the rear that I can provide easily or a bit more power to the front hub. Which btw will start to skip if using too much power in loose terrain and that is when you put more effort into the rear.

So I personally don't see the need for a two motor system that adds weight and complexity but others have set up two wheel drives and had personal success with them. Horses for courses........

Stefan Mikes · Oct 23, 2023

None said:
Priorities for you for a gravel bike may not be the same for everyone else.

"Gravel cycling" is a very well defined term now, embraced by the UCI as well.
It is funny that Yamaha who makes excellent mid-drive e-bike motors now seems to have proven it was always primarily a motorcycle producer

Yamaha E-Bikes are only available for the United States outside Japan.

Yamaha even takes no chance in Europe, the biggest e-bike market. It is Giant that uses Yamaha motors there.

PDoz · Oct 23, 2023

Stefan Mikes said:
"Gravel cycling" is a very well defined term now, embraced by the UCI as well.
It is funny that Yamaha who makes excellent mid-drive e-bike motors now seems to have proven it was always primarily a motorcycle producer

Yamaha E-Bikes are only available for the United States outside Japan.

View attachment 165280
Yamaha even takes no chance in Europe, the biggest e-bike market. It is Giant that uses Yamaha motors there.

Fact check:

Yamaha sell in multiple countries - including Australia https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/e-bike

They sell 40 million ebikes a year , and only 4.8 million motorbikes. Theyvalso sell watercraft, outboard motors, musical instruments / equipment....

Stefan Mikes · Oct 24, 2023

PDoz said:
Yamaha sell in multiple countries - including Australia https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/e-bike

Something must have changed for the last couple of years when a high official of Yamaha in Japan said "Our e-bikes are immature enough to be sold in such a demanding market as Europe". I confirm what you are saying: it is possible to order a Moro 07, a Booster, a Crosscore RC or a Wabash RT in Poland now. I wonder how good they sell, as I cannot imagine a Yamaha motorcycle dealer could be good with bicycles

You gave me a good idea. I would ride up the nearest Yamaha dealer and ask him about e-bikes

PDoz · Oct 24, 2023

Stefan Mikes said:
Something must have changed for the last couple of years when a high official of Yamaha in Japan said "Our e-bikes are immature enough to be sold in such a demanding market as Europe". I confirm what you are saying: it is possible to order a Moro 07, a Booster, a Crosscore RC or a Wabash RT in Poland now. I wonder how good they sell, as I cannot imagine a Yamaha motorcycle dealer could be good with bicycles

You gave me a good idea. I would ride up the nearest Yamaha dealer and ask him about e-bikes

Do you expect to buy a yamaha piano there as well ?

To be fair, a yamaha motorbike mechanic is more likely than the average specialized tech to be able to rebuild an ebike motor - they've been dealing with complex electrics and geared drives most of their career

Stefan Mikes · Oct 24, 2023

PDoz said:
Do you expect to buy a yamaha piano there as well ?

Yamaha has no LBSes here. You can buy a Yamaha e-bike online only, and you get an instruction to unbox and assemble the e-bike yourself.
Now, you might be interested who does the service, repairs and warranty for Yamaha e-bikes here. You click the "Service and Support" in the website and are answered with:

Support
Do you own a Yamaha product and need additional support? Go to each category to discover more content related to the technical support, from frequently asked questions to general questions:

Clothing and accessories FAQs
e-Bikes FAQs
Unboxing and configuration FAQs
Product return form
The online store regulations
Privacy statement.

Now, let us go to e-Bike FAQs:
Shipment

How do you send a shipment?
When will I get my shipment?
How can I track my shipment?
What is the shipment cost?
Can I get my delivery outside Poland?

Returns
Order & Payment
Warranty
Privacy & Security
Product Information
etc, etc. No word on any LBS.

However, when you dig very deep into the FAQs, you will find two pieces of useful information:

You can only buy a Yamaha e-bike directly from Yamaha Motor Europe
Upon the start of the ordering procedure, you have to select the dealer who will deliver the e-bike to you.

However, you won't find any dealer list before you start ordering the e-bike. Very inspiring... Not.

The same Yamaha Motor Europe sells:

Motorcycles
Scooters
E-bikes
Boat engines
Water scooters
Boats
ATV's
Light vehicles
Power products (generators, snow removers)

I wonder how qualified a Yamaha dealer must be to handle both boat engines and e-bikes

If I were to order any online e-bike, I'd rather trust Canyon than Yamaha... Because many people ride Canyon bicycles here, and Bosch E-Bike is a popular system. I have to see anyone riding a Yamaha e-bike yet.

Have you ordered a Moro e-MTB yet?

P.S. You can study the British Yamaha Motor Europe website in your native language. Perhaps you can find some information that I missed? The UK site offers ordering a test ride.

The dealers are motorcycle dealers. Not bike LBS.

The Polish site does not offer test rides. So much for Yamaha because big bicycle brands all have a good representation in my country.

Yamaha Motor UK - Yamaha Motor

Discover the world of Yamaha motorcycles, marine products, and other exciting vehicles. Explore our range, find dealers, and stay up to date with the latest news and events.

www.yamaha-motor.eu

None · Oct 24, 2023

Stefan Mikes said:
"Gravel cycling" is a very well defined term now, embraced by the UCI as well.
It is funny that Yamaha who makes excellent mid-drive e-bike motors now seems to have proven it was always primarily a motorcycle producer

Do you honestly think majority of gravel bike owner or buyers ask before buying:
hmm, I wonder if this gravel bike complies with UCI embraced definition for a gravel bike?

Like I said before:

None said:
Priorities for you for a gravel bike may not be the same for everyone else.

Stefan Mikes · Oct 24, 2023

None said:
Do you honestly think majority of gravel bike owner or buyers ask before buying:
hmm, I wonder if this gravel bike complies with UCI embraced definition for a gravel bike?