Yamaha warranty. Something to consider. "Frame made wrong"

[Greentween]

Watch my video again and pay attention to the beer can. I can pinch the can and it pops right back making similar noise. Then watch tightening and loosening the stem bolt. Frame makes the same noise. Frame is made from old beer cans i suppose and the noise is normal?? You do it on your Civante and is it the same??? Probably not, I got a bad one.

Waiting on a fork right now. 2 months to get one. Not because they diagnosed it as the problem. They are just guessing it is cause. Already waited 6 weeks for the headset bearings to be changed and that was done, because again, - they are just guessing. Cheapest repair first. I told them with the bearing change to send the fork too, but Yamaha warranty will only do 1 part at a time. You get to wait 2 months for the next part. Actually, they never said how long it will take to get a frame. Probably 6 months for that.

 

[PedalUma]

This might deaden the sound in the top tube. It really does suck that they are taking so long. You should send them a link to this thread.

 

[jabberwocky]

Watch my video again and pay attention to the beer can. I can pinch the can and it pops right back making similar noise. Then watch tightening and loosening the stem bolt. Frame makes the same noise. Frame is made from old beer cans i suppose and the noise is normal?? You do it on your Civante and is it the same??? Probably not, I got a bad one.

I don't have a Civante, but just the noise can be a lot of things. Not sure what the beer can is supposed to show, but I've had bikes make similar noises to your bike when bottom bracket threads are dirty, pedal threads dirty, seatpost clamp lose/dirty, seatpost creaking in frame, saddle rails loose, headset needed cleaning, headset loose or something up in the cockpit needed cleaning... bike frames are a bunch of hollow metal tubes and sounds are often super deceptive as to location. Theres definitely a problem that needs solving, I'm just saying that it may not be at the location of the frame you are focused on. It may not be the frame at all.

You can isolate lots of these things to try and narrow it down. For the frame, I'd (gently) clamp the front of the top tube in the bike stand and push/pull on the rear part of the frame to see if you still get noise.

Have you checked over the frame really closely to try and find a break or crack? If you do find one, photo it and have your shop send to Yamaha.

Waiting on a fork right now. 2 months to get one. Not because they diagnosed it as the problem. They are just guessing it is cause. Already waited 6 weeks for the headset bearings to be changed and that was done, because again, - they are just guessing. Cheapest repair first. I told them with the bearing change to send the fork too, but Yamaha warranty will only do 1 part at a time. You get to wait 2 months for the next part. Actually, they never said how long it will take to get a frame. Probably 6 months for that.

So your shop actually thinks its the fork, or they are just randomly replacing parts? Creaks are annoying to diagnose but it should be possible to figure them out without just replacing random parts one at a time...

For sure, waiting for two months for a warranty part is annoying as hell.

 

[Greentween]

This might deaden the sound in the top tube. It really does suck that they are taking so long. You should send them a link to this thread.

I like the way you are thinking. If it wasn't under warranty, the can in the garage would be used already. Only other thing I would say once I did that, the bike on facebook marketplace for sale (assuming it worked to quiet it).

Right now, I couldn't even sell the bike at half price due to the noise it makes when you ride it. No one would buy it once they did a test ride.

 

[Greentween]

The shop has tried to locate the noise and is relying on Yamaha to supply what they suggest to replace. Yamaha ultimately decides what part to send, not the dealer. They send the cheapest part first.

Also don't bother to call Yamaha customer relations number they have on their web site. That's a ruse and a firewall. They wont forward you to anyone. They tell you you have to go thru your dealer. If you get pissed at that 1 dealer in your area, say good by to your 3yr warranty.

 

[PedalUma]

That was the first time I used Great Stuff to quiet a bike. I had on a brand new black cashmere sweater. I wreaked it. Great Stuff expanded out nearly invisible vent ports at the back of the bike and onto the rotor and chain. But it worked. The next time I did the prep and had on junky work cloths.

 

[Greentween]

Yes, I would do it. But it kills the warranty.
I told dealer I would just buy a aftermarket fork and lets try it instead of waiting 2 months. Just help me find one that fits the goofy size Yamaha uses. He said that deletes the warranty. Get a load of that shite.

I bet if you have a bad battery, they want to have you 1st try changing the key. 2 months till they can send it though. Even if bike is brand new. No they wont take one off of another bike and send it to you.

 

[PedalUma]

it kills the warranty

This is in the fine print of every bike's owner's manual. Any modification voids the warranty. Cupholder anyone?

 

[Asher]

This is in the fine print of every bike's owner's manual. Any modification voids the warranty. Cupholder anyone?

This is often illegal nonsense. Which Bosch among others has violated.

https://pirg.org/articles/illegal-warranty-voiding-highlights-need-for-ftc-action/

 

[jabberwocky]

Is there another Yamaha dealer anywhere nearby? Even if its a bit of a drive, I think its worth having someone else take a look at your bike. I think your dealer is either being shady or is just way out of their depth. Nothing you're describing makes any sense.

If theres a reputable bike shop in your area I might call and ask if they are willing to take a look at it, even if you gotta pay them. I'd bet an experienced mechanic can either solve the problem or definitively identify the broken part.

 

[PedalUma]

illegal nonsense

What these manufactures don't want are independent eyes assessing their faults while they are still on the hook. And yes, they want to lock consumers into only buying their 'toner cartridge' for their 'printer' from their dealer. And they program and plan obsolescence and non-support so they can sell more of the latest stuff, so otherwise mostly good stuff lands in the landfill. My friend Pete purchased a used Stumpjumper in 1986. Every part on it has been swapped. He rides it everyday as an extra-cycle cargo bike.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I think @jabberwocky has been most helpful in putting you in the right direction. Your dealer; not so much. And fwiw, reading these forums for years, I can tell you that it matters not if it's R&M or Specialized or Trek or Haibike or Bosch or any other big name ebike manufacturers and there is one consistent trend with ALL of them: they want and require the bike owner working with the bike shop they bought the bike from......not comms with Corporate on any warranty issue. So you either need to continue working with the shop you bought the bike from, or ask other Yamaha dealers if they would want to take this issue on.

It seems Yamaha bikes have a history of creaks on and about the bike, like this thread: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/2020-civante-creaks-like-a-rocking-chair.42890/

If I were you, at this point, I'd run down to the local Harbor Freight and pick up a Mechanics Stethoscope: https://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-63691.html

And with it and a partner to move the bike in a way that sets off that creak, start poking around the frame until you distinctly and clearly hear that creaking noise. For starters, I'd start poking around the headset and fork......working to the seatpost/seatpost clamp and down at the motor/motor mount.

Be careful and deliberate in listening. Aluminum frames have a way of magnifying a noise that makes you think the noise is happening dead center of the top tube when it very likely is somewhere else. And a real close look at the paint in the area you are focused on as well as around all welded joints, is in order and will likely reveal cracked paint if the tubing or weld joint(s) are truly cracked.

The mainstream big bike manufacturers aside from Trek or Specialized have done an overall poor job in backing up the buying customer after the sale is made. Such is life. Now, start listening in with that 'scope to pinpoint your creaking noise.

My guess: it's in the headset/star nut interface/headset bearings.

Good luck!

 

[jabberwocky]

The mainstream big bike manufacturers aside from Trek or Specialized have done an overall poor job in backing up the buying customer after the sale is made. Such is life. Now, start listening in with that 'scope to pinpoint your creaking noise.

Most manufacturers (even outside the big 3) are fine to work with and will ship out warranty parts, but they are totally reliant on the shop doing the work to figure out whats actually wrong and to document whats in need of replacing. Most companies aren't just going to randomly send out parts to "see if that fixes it". Which is why I'm getting the sense that the issue here is maybe the shop and not Yamaha directly. Either they don't have the know-how to diagnose the issue or just don't want to and are giving him the runaround by pulling the "we are waiting on parts and can't try anything yamaha doesn't send us because it would totally void the warranty". Give them an excuse to sit around and not spend money/time trying to actually fix it.

I do think the "we can't try a fork we have in the shop because it would void the warranty" thing is total bull. It appears to be a standard tapered steerer fork (1.5" bottom race, 1.125" top race), which is standard on literally every road/gravel bike built in the last 10 years. I mean, unless theres something weird about it that isn't obvious from the website.

My guess: it's in the headset/star nut interface/headset bearings.

I think thats a solid guess. He said they already replaced the headset and are now trying the fork, so they think its something in the cockpit area. In his video he was getting noise while tightening the headset cap, which is only connected to the star nut and shouldn't exert force on anything outside the headset/stem/steerer, so something is up around there.

 

[PedalUma]

star nut

The star nut!!! It is made of material that could make this clicker sound that resonates through the top tube.

 

[Greentween]

FYI: Headset bearing Civante:
Upper bearing VP-P08F (41.8x8x45)
Lower bearing VP-P22 (46.9x7x45)
No they didnt use common 1.125 to 1.50 tapered steerer. They used 1.125 to 1.25 --- so it is hard to find local fork to fit. Both the bearings and the fork are hard to find. If anyone has suggestion for fork- please post.

 

[jabberwocky]

No they didnt use common 1.125 to 1.50 tapered steerer. They used 1.125 to 1.25 --- so it is hard to find local fork to fit. Both the bearings and the fork are hard to find. If anyone has suggestion for fork- please post.

Thats more of an oddball size, but forks do exist.

Columbus Futura Gravel Carbon Fork 1-1/4" Tapered | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

ENVE Composites Carbon Road Disc Thru Axle Forks

ENVE Composites Carbon Road Disc Thru Axle Forks :: From $575.00 :: ENVE Composites Forks

www.universalcycles.com

Ritchey WCS Carbon Tapered Gravel Fork | Ritchey Logic

The WCS Carbon Cross Fork is designed from the ground up to manage the unique stresses a disc brake demands. Discover now.

ritcheylogic.com

Quick search didn't find anything cheap, but maybe theres something out there. Cannondale did that size fork for a while.

Could also look into a spacer to reduce the bottom race to 1-1/8, which is a much more common size and has a lot more available. If I wanted to go down that road I'd email Cane Creek and ask if one of their crown race adapters might work. Like this: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...oy-47-30-conversion-crown-race-1-1-4-to-1-1-8 (use as a crown race on a straight 1-1/8" fork and the angular contact connects with your 1-1/4" bottom bearing). Not sure if the dimensions line up though.

 

[Asher]

What these manufactures don't want are independent eyes assessing their faults while they are still on the hook. And yes, they want to lock consumers into only buying their 'toner cartridge' for their 'printer' from their dealer. And they program and plan obsolescence and non-support so they can sell more of the latest stuff, so otherwise mostly good stuff lands in the landfill. My friend Pete purchased a used Stumpjumper in 1986. Every part on it has been swapped. He rides it everyday as an extra-cycle cargo bike.

Yeah one recent annoying fad is these companies crowing about how they're recycling batteries - which is better than not recycling, but it's nowhere near as good as extending and repairing where safe and practical. They do not want any incursion into their high margin battery business model. Recycling changes nothing ok that front - the customer still disposes of a battery and buys another.

This is a much better idea than merely recycling - repairable batteries.

Micromobility focused repairable battery wins Taipei award

Gouach has picked up a Taipei Cycle Green Award for its repairable battery aimed at the micromobility market

cyclingindustry.news

 

[Greydog]

Thats more of an oddball size, but forks do exist.

Columbus Futura Gravel Carbon Fork 1-1/4" Tapered | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

ENVE Composites Carbon Road Disc Thru Axle Forks

ENVE Composites Carbon Road Disc Thru Axle Forks :: From $575.00 :: ENVE Composites Forks

www.universalcycles.com

Ritchey WCS Carbon Tapered Gravel Fork | Ritchey Logic

The WCS Carbon Cross Fork is designed from the ground up to manage the unique stresses a disc brake demands. Discover now.

ritcheylogic.com

Quick search didn't find anything cheap, but maybe theres something out there. Cannondale did that size fork for a while.

Could also look into a spacer to reduce the bottom race to 1-1/8, which is a much more common size and has a lot more available. If I wanted to go down that road I'd email Cane Creek and ask if one of their crown race adapters might work. Like this: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...oy-47-30-conversion-crown-race-1-1-4-to-1-1-8 (use as a crown race on a straight 1-1/8" fork and the angular contact connects with your 1-1/4" bottom bearing). Not sure if the dimensions line up though.

I am having the same issue with my Civante. The fork creaks like crazy. It started about 2 weeks after I bought it 2 years ago and I am getting tired of it. Sometimes it is so loud it sounds like the frame is cracking. If you find a solution, please PM me. I finally contacted my dealer and he is going to call Yamaha. Otherwise I love the bike. I put on some 32c road bike tires and the bike accelerates faster and is more nimble. The tires have tremendous grip and the bike corners way better. I bought the Pirelli Cinturato Velo TLR tires. They are tubeless but you can use tubes with them. They have the highest puncture resistance of any road bike tire that was tested here-

Road Bike Tires Test Results | Bicycle Rolling Resistance

An overview of all road bike tires which have been reviewed after being tested on our rolling resistance testing machine.

www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

I highly recommend them. They are also much lighter and save about 1/2 a pound or more in weight compared to the stock gravel tires. No flats in 2 years. They are considered a training tire so they will hold up well to many miles.

 

[Greentween]

Jaberwocky, thanks for the links to the forks. Civante has the crown race taper machined directly into it. Those looked like the crown race is missing and instead would use a pressed on crown race that came with the headset ---IDK ???? The Richey one looked like it had a taper there but not machined. Those are also expensive. But I was wanting to change it to carbon anyway. I will follow up with those companies for explanation how adapt it.

Maybe Greydog will be first one to figure out carbon fork swap since he needs one too........(hint , hint)

 

[Greentween]

Used phone for this short video of the noise. The microphone on phone picked up the noise better than my old Gopro. Take a listen.