Will EBikeshare Replace EBike Ownership For Most People in Cities?

[Asher]

I ditched my car about a year ago and I've been using a combination of Uber, Jump ebike shares, Ford non-ebike shares, electric scoot.co mopeds to get around and I've even tried the dockless e-razors that are now scattered throughout my city.

The problem with the shared ebikes (and the mopeds) is there are often none around when I need one. Especially during commute hours. If I don't get up super early in the morning, all the ones near my home are gone, same with in the evening going home from work - by 5:00pm there's nothing left.

After trying every transportation mode available (bus/light rail, motorcycle, car, regular bike, ebike) I have come to the conclusion that ebikes are the absolute fastest way to get to anywhere but the farthest corners of this city. (not to mention most secure - I had my cars stolen twice, crackheads have broken off the sparkplugs on the motorcycle I had to use the ceramic tubes, public transit smells like urine and feces... yes, this city is kind of a s-hole).

Unless the number of shared bikes increases to a saturation point, there's really no way for them to be reliable transport. if there are none available. Owning your own seems like the only way!

Thank the city government. They cap Jump at 250 bikes. It's dumb and there's no good reason for it. They could probably sustain 5-10k easily.

SF is kind of an outlier by US standards in density and small size, so I think the deck is tilted even more in favor of bikeshare there. When it's actually unleashed.

 

[Tina Marie]

The city I live in has some bike share program. All the bikes are bright yellow and are single speed bikes. They have GPS in them and you use an app to get them to unlock so they can be used. I think the price is a dollar an hour.


When you're done with the bike, you just park it in the sidewalk and walk away. My husband and I call it littering on a massive scale.


I don't see many people riding them except for hoodlums, gang members, and kids from the projects. They disable the locks, smash the GPS, and ride it till they're tired of it. When they're done, they destroy the rest of the bike and leave the many parts and pieces littering the sidewalk.


I am not a proponent of shared anything. I work hard and take care of the things I have because I can quantify the number of hours I had to work to purchase something. When one is given something for nothing, or next to nothing, there's no inherent value, and therefore no motivation to take care of it.


As for the U.S. not modeling it self after Europe with regards to bikes versus cars, Europe is tiny, close by, and their winters are fairly mild. The U.S. is massive and spread out. Because of that, we will always need cars. And let's not forget that vast area of the U.S. have brutal winter's. The Northeast gets 150+inches of snow each winter with wind chills that can reach -50°F. You can't walk in that, never mind ride a bike.

 

[Asher]

The city I live in has some bike share program. All the bikes are bright yellow and are single speed bikes. They have GPS in them and you use an app to get them to unlock so they can be used. I think the price is a dollar an hour.


When you're done with the bike, you just park it in the sidewalk and walk away. My husband and I call it littering on a massive scale.


I don't see many people riding them except for hoodlums, gang members, and kids from the projects. They disable the locks, smash the GPS, and ride it till they're tired of it. When they're done, they destroy the rest of the bike and leave the many parts and pieces littering the sidewalk.


I am not a proponent of shared anything. I work hard and take care of the things I have because I can quantify the number of hours I had to work to purchase something. When one is given something for nothing, or next to nothing, there's no inherent value, and therefore no motivation to take care of it.


As for the U.S. not modeling it self after Europe with regards to bikes versus cars, Europe is tiny, close by, and their winters are fairly mild. The U.S. is massive and spread out. Because of that, we will always need cars. And let's not forget that vast area of the U.S. have brutal winter's. The Northeast gets 150+inches of snow each winter with wind chills that can reach -50°F. You can't walk in that, never mind ride a bike.

Were you born before 1980? PS a gym is 'shared' just as much as these bikes are.

I've lived in cold places. People can walk, and even bike depending on circumstance.

 

[Tina Marie]

Were you born before 1980? PS a gym is 'shared' just as much as these bikes are.

I've lived in cold places. People can walk, and even bike depending on circumstance.

Since you think people can walk and bike in our winter's, you should let our governor, the school superintendents, and every business in Massachusetts know so they'll stop shutting everything down during storms, and sometimes for days after.

PS. A gym shares equipment in a controlled area. There are employees there to make certain the equipment is not being abused and/or misused.

 

[harryS]

I don't see many people riding them except for hoodlums, gang members, and kids from the projects. They disable the locks, smash the GPS, and ride it till they're tired of it. When they're done, they destroy the rest of the bike and leave the many parts and pieces littering the sidewalk.

That's sad, but it is a reality. All it takes is couple of smashed bikes and someone's bike franchise is bankrupt. How do you pay for the loss of a five hundred dollar bike when it only collects $30-50/day in rent on a good day.

The bikes I've rented .. if they're not put away and locked up, my credit card will be paying for a replacement bike. I just don't believe in dockless rentals. People are dishonest. The original business model in China has turned out to be a ponzi scheme. Check out this week's article in Time magazine.

 

[Asher]

That's sad, but it is a reality. All it takes is couple of smashed bikes and someone's bike franchise is bankrupt. How do you pay for the loss of a five hundred dollar bike when it only collects $30-50/day in rent on a good day.

The bikes I've rented .. if they're not put away and locked up, my credit card will be paying for a replacement bike. I just don't believe in dockless rentals. People are dishonest. The original business model in China has turned out to be a ponzi scheme. Check out this week's article in Time magazine.

A Ponzi scheme where people are doing 60 million rides a day.

One company has claimed they can money on one ride per bike per day. $1500 in revenue for four year lifespan. Plausible on a $400ish bike if vandalism isn't too high.

These firms are highly funded, with millions to billions backing them. So they have some margin to fail some of the time.

 

[harryS]

It's a ponzi because the first guy makes money. The next few go bankrupt.

We've all seen it. but here again is the link to Manchester Guardian story.

The Time article also mentions the hit to the bike industry. With rental bikes available for a pittance, no one really needs to buy a personal bike anymore in Chiner.

 

[Asher]

https://qz.com/1241214/photos-volks...el-cars-in-the-us-heres-what-that-looks-like/

 

[Ken M]

I ditched my car about a year ago and I've been using a combination of Uber, Jump ebike shares, Ford non-ebike shares, electric scoot.co mopeds to get around and I've even tried the dockless e-razors that are now scattered throughout my city.

The problem with the shared ebikes (and the mopeds) is there are often none around when I need one. Especially during commute hours. If I don't get up super early in the morning, all the ones near my home are gone, same with in the evening going home from work - by 5:00pm there's nothing left.

After trying every transportation mode available (bus/light rail, motorcycle, car, regular bike, ebike) I have come to the conclusion that ebikes are the absolute fastest way to get to anywhere but the farthest corners of this city. (not to mention most secure - I had my cars stolen twice, crackheads have broken off the sparkplugs on the motorcycle I had to use the ceramic tubes, public transit smells like urine and feces... yes, this city is kind of a s-hole).

Unless the number of shared bikes increases to a saturation point, there's really no way for them to be reliable transport. if there are none available. Owning your own seems like the only way!

/Share programs will never work because the inconvenience of bikes not always being available will be a huge issue. Why someone can't just buy a decent ebike that is always available to them just defies logic to me (it's not like a $30,000 car costs $1000s more a year to utilize).

 

[Nova Haibike]

Why someone can't just buy a decent ebike that is always available to them just defies logic to me (it's not like a $30,000 car costs $1000s more a year to utilize).

Cost of car ownership aside, bicycle ownership has its own problems, mainly where to park them and not have them constantly stolen. Even where to store it at home is a problem if one lives anywhere with stairs involved.

 

[fnord]

Cost of car ownership aside, bicycle ownership has its own problems, mainly where to park them and not have them constantly stolen. Even where to store it at home is a problem if one lives anywhere with stairs involved.

Precisely. For me, if it is just between home and work, fine I can take the bike inside. If I go to some store or other errand, leaving a bicycle locked outside is a crapshoot in San Francisco. I'm sure other cities vary. This isn't stockholm where people leave bikes literally unlocked outside. For two bucks a ride I can not worry about leaving $3000 outside on the sidewalk.

Think I'm exaggerating, watch this video - a guy with a cane and a backpack walks up to this road bike and slices off a U-Lock like it was nothing. Broad daylight on Valencia street - a major shopping/dining area. The guy who walks by first is probably his lookout. Skip to 0:45 to see the bike get jacked in literally 30 seconds.

 

[Asher]

/Share programs will never work because the inconvenience of bikes not always being available will be a huge issue. Why someone can't just buy a decent ebike that is always available to them just defies logic to me (it's not like a $30,000 car costs $1000s more a year to utilize).

When you put 10k (SF) or 100k (NY) bikes on the streets, access ceases to be an issue.

 

[Ken M]

I think the good motion and tracking devices are going to get these scum bags that are stealing bikes. People need to speak out when they see something like this. That guy obviously was not a biker rider and those people just asked him if it was his bike and walked away. Start yelling and taking pictures and he'll run back under the bridge he lives under.

 

[Ann M.]

@Ken M, you make a pretty big assumption that it's a homeless person stealing the ebike. I think that it's more likely someone who's focused on stealing electric bikes.

Totally agree that we as a people are too intimidated when witnessing something potentially bad or challenging so we don't speak out. That's the main reason the guy in the video can get away with the theft. No one is going to think that running a grinder on a bike lock is a normal.

 

[Ken M]

i just reference the bridge because I just think it's sad that people are stealing bikes because most people on bikes are not rich and that theft can be a huge factor for them to overcome.

No way would I just ignore a guy with a grinder trying to remove a bike lock. I would tell him to stop and prove he owns the bike (not always easy but a picture of the bike in his phone would be enough).

Sadly the police are really busy with more important things that bike thefts but somehow these guys need to be caught and appropriate punished to deter them doing it again. That I'm not sure what will work when many of them just want their next drug fix.

 

[Barry S]

The high probability of having my bike stolen while inside a store is the only thing keeping me from using my bike for more than just commuting to/from work. I think a great partnership for docked bike sharing solutions is bike lockers for those that want to ride their own bike. While most mom and pop shops probably can't afford to give up a parking space or two for a couple of bike lockers, surely a large mall can make rented bike lockers a reality. I'd gladly pay upwards of $5 to park my bike in a secure locker while at the mall knowing it's going to be there when I leave.

 

[Ken M]

The high probability of having my bike stolen while inside a store is the only thing keeping me from using my bike for more than just commuting to/from work. I think a great partnership for docked bike sharing solutions is bike lockers for those that want to ride their own bike. While most mom and pop shops probably can't afford to give up a parking space or two for a couple of bike lockers, surely a large mall can make rented bike lockers a reality. I'd gladly pay upwards of $5 to park my bike in a secure locker while at the mall knowing it's going to be there when I leave.

I'm not so sure bike lockers would even secure a bike entirely. Someone with a grinder like in that video would just cut open the locker. I think the only thing that is going to protect bikes is advanced electronics (motion detectors, alarms, tracking, etc.). These devices need to be small enough to be hidden on the bike in random locations to they can't be found and disabled easily by bike thieves.

Maybe legalizing more drugs would make them cheaper so addicts wouldn't need to steal bike to get their fixes. Maybe more of them OD so they can no longer steal bikes or anything. I'm just not a big believer we will ever solve the drug problem in this country via regulations/laws.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Will some ebikeshare advocates explain what is happening with companies like Bird? It can't be a good look when people are defiling your product.

 

[Dynamo Dan]

I can see ebikeshare working only in cities that have a large tourist sector. The largest growth sector for ebike users will be commuters and retirees that want to get some exercise while going about their daily routines. These people need to have the convenience of being able to wheel their bike out of their garage rather than walking or getting a bus to the nearest ebikeshare location. They want to know that the battery is fully charged/ bike is fully maintained and not take the risk of being stranded. Like with there recently abandoned cars, they want their personal transport to be as they like it. Seat in same position, grips, handlebars and brakes to feel the same, fully familiar with controls. And of course there is the vanity of being seen on their ebike. I can see growth in both ebikeshare and personally owned ebikes but for different reasons and with different sectors of society.

 

[Barry S]

Lime Bike just invaded Honolulu with its electric scooters and the Mayor is pissed. In fact, the local PD are confiscating them because under State law they fall under the same classification as mopeds and must be registered because they're motorized. I think he's just more upset because people are complaining about tripping over them as renters just leave them anywhere when they're done unlike a bike sharing docking station. At last count, the City has impounded half of Lime's fleet. The same law could be applied to ebikes, but somehow ebikes have fallen into a DMZ of laws and the City won't even let you register an ebike until things are sorted out.