Why not speed limits?

[Alaskan]

The bicycle class system makes as much sense as allowing cars on different roads depending on how many cylinders their engines have. This road is for four cylinder cars and this one is for cars with V8s. Now what do you do with a four banger with dual overhead cam and a turbo that puts out the same horsepower as a naturally aspirated V8? And how can one tell what is under the hood while the car is in motion?

Speed is measurable regardless. Just set the safe speed for the road and all its users and enforce that. If I am walking on a mixed use path and get hit by someone on a bike, I really don't care what kind of bike it is, electric or acoustic, class one or class three. It is the most enforceable solution as evidenced by its universal adoption on roads around the globe.

The bicycle class system is useless and silly.

 

[steve mercier]

The bicycle class system makes as much sense as allowing cars on different roads depending on how many cylinders their engines have. This road is for four cylinder cars and this one is for cars with V8s. Now what do you do with a four banger with dual overhead cam and a turbo that puts out the same horsepower as a naturally aspirated V8? And how can one tell what is under the hood while the car is in motion?

Speed is measurable regardless. Just set the safe speed for the road and all its users and enforce that. If I am walking on a mixed use path and get hit by someone on a bike, I really don't care what kind of bike it is, electric or acoustic, class one or class three. It is the most enforceable solution as evidenced by its universal adoption on roads around the globe.

The bicycle class system is useless and silly.

I have thought this also. This is a case of over- functioning ,over-reaching legislators. My car goes faster than I am allowed to drive it, but my bike does not? Imagine the backlash if they tried to make a law placing governers on peoples cars. Here is a thought. Yesterday we were passed by several fit young road cyclists even though we have de-limited our bikes and were riding about 35kmh. They were speeding without motors and governers. Perhaps the legislators should draft laws to restrict their leg muscles? As absurd as that seems ,it would be an equivalent measure.

 

[6zfshdb]

My car goes faster than I am allowed to drive it, but my bike does not? Imagine the backlash if they tried to make a law placing governers on peoples cars.

This is very true but ebikers don't have this "safety in numbers" protection. Right now we are easy targets for uninformed legislators. Hopefully, our numbers will grow substantially to become a significant block of voters before these regulations crush the sport.

 

[Mass Deduction]

[...] However harsh the regulations are, these make sense. Only the EU 25 km/h limit for Class 1 seems to be too severe. At a few locations here where bigger number of citizens own e-bikes, they de-restrict their e-bikes en masse. They would swallow the 32 km/h limit.

I think a big advantage of selling 45 km/h bikes is that it gives a legal speed bike option, and I think that reduces the number of people who would choose to derestrict, as you say. And I've read other comments from people who are happy moving their bike from 25 to 32 km/h. Agreed that 25 km/h is just crawling along. Fine for touring maybe, but not for other forms of recreational riding, and definitely unappealing for commuting (IMO). I prefer setting it to 38 km/h for commuting. I wish all bikes could be set to whatever speed you wish, and for each PAS level independently, so long as you don't exceed the maximum speed.

 

[AHicks]

The reason for not giving speed limits more teeth is all about money. NOBODY wants to be responsible for, OR pay for the enforcement necessary to make the limits work/worth anything.....

 

[Mass Deduction]

MD what are the different regulations in the different Provinces? I'm aware of BC, but not the others. [...]

Here you go: Ebike Regulations in Canada

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I prefer setting it to 38 km/h for commuting.

Reasonable. That's the speed you can achieve and maintain on a Class 3 e-bike. Now, a 250 W nominal Class 3 e-bike has a big trouble to go beyond 38 km/h. The 45 km/h limit is only to be achieved and maintained with a powerful motor. Not sure about Class 3 but the EU L1e-B allows up to 4 kW. I haven't seen such a bike on sale in Europe. Some Yamaha driven e-bike had 500 W.

 

[retire01022004]

I introduced this topic and am amazed at the many thoughtful comments. I believe that safety for the rider and general public are the ultimate objective.
Speed is a major factor to safe operation - just like for autos. So classes, watts and throttles are irrelevant. Setting and enforcing maximum speed limits is key. But limits only partially addresses safe operation. For example, safely passing walkers may require a far lower speed than the posted limit. So how to legislate, regulate and enforce 'safe operation'?

 

[AHicks]

I introduced this topic and am amazed at the many thoughtful comments. I believe that safety for the rider and general public are the ultimate objective.
Speed is a major factor to safe operation - just like for autos. So classes, watts and throttles are irrelevant. Setting and enforcing maximum speed limits is key. But limits only partially addresses safe operation. For example, safely passing walkers may require a far lower speed than the posted limit. So how to legislate, regulate and enforce 'safe operation'?

There's just one answer. Figure out where the money to do that would come from.

 

[opimax]

GPS tracking = “Big Brother watching” , you can’t even coast down a hill then without worry. I won’t say I even have a suggestion but currently I ride where I want but have to keep “looking over my shoulder“ for the one time I may get stopped for being class 3 or being an ebike at all. Where I am, not much chance but annoying to even think about . i am not a bad rider although not perfect.

Stickers on a bike I would think easy to defeat in this time of technology so this would be hard to enforce.

speed limits enforced as autos work for me but I don’t think practical for enforcement

why some manufactures will only make compliant bikes and others don’t doesn’t seem correct either to me.

it also doesn’t seem correct to create legislation for all when likely a few who need it...I don’t have the answer

 

[Handlebars]

I've set the highest level to a max of 60 km/h for use on highways. So I change assist modes depending on where I am, to meet legal obligations and to have sensible maximums.

But I remain convinced that if e-bikes were regulated less, that cyclists would be regulated more (licence, registration, insurance). So I'm content with the status quo.

Where in Canada can you have a 60km/hr highway ride legally? 500W motor, 32 km/hr. Some provinces require the rider be licensed, or example if it can go with motor only no pedalling.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Where in Canada can you have a 60km/hr highway ride legally? 500W motor, 32 km/hr. Some provinces require the rider be licensed, or example if it can go with motor only no pedalling.

In BC, the rule (as stated by ICBC) is that you can't be power assisted above 32 km/h *without pedalling*. But if you don't have a throttle, you *are* pedalling. So it's a grey area where it's appears to be neither explicitly allowed nor strictly forbidden.

In practical terms, multiple police officers in southern Vancouver Island have told me that if it looks like a bicycle, it has pedals, you're wearing a helmet, and you're going at a speed that makes sense for the surface that you're riding on and not making a nuisance of yourself, that they're fine with it.

 

[Handlebars]

What does Transport Canada consider a power assisted-bicycle?

We consider a power assisted bicycle to be an electric bicycle propelled by either a combination of muscular power and a motor, or by the motor alone. Section 2(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (MVSR) describes a power assisted bicycle as follows:

1. (a) has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals,
2. (b) is designed to travel on not more than three wheels touching with the ground,
3. (c) is capable of being propelled by muscular power,
4. (d) has one or more electric motors which have, singly or in combination, the following characteristics:
   1. (i) it has a total continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of each motor, of 500 W or less,
   2. (ii) if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases when the muscular power ceases,
   3. (iii) if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and
   4. (iv) it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground,
5. (e) bears a label that is permanently affixed by the manufacturer and appears in a conspicuous location stating, in both official languages, that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in this section, and
6. (f) has one of the following safety features:
   1. (i) an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver, or
   2. (ii) a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains a speed of 3 km/h.

it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground

 

[Handlebars]

Now they say the speed limit on many main roads in Toronto is going to be reduced from 50 to 40km/hr. Kind of levels the playing field a bit.

 

[Slowpoke]

Prior to 1/1/2018 ebikes in Michigan were regulated under the same rules/laws of mopeds,and motorcycles.So it took another new law to get us out of that set of rules.We now have the the Class 1,2,3 system.I don't like all the regulations but we are a little better than what it was.Hopefully there won't be any additional laws.For 2019 I rode 2300 miles with 90% on bike trails and did not see any trail police,and did not see any ebikers flying down the trails at high speeds.I think most of us are pretty responsible when we are out on the trails.I always slow to a crawl when passing walkers,kids,pets.

 

[FInx]

Someone in the UK on a de-restricted ebike hit and killed a pedestrian. They estimate the rider was going 30mph. They were on the street, in a vehicle lane. In my opinion, this is not an ebike at this point, it's a vehicle, and the driver and vehicle should be properly licensed and insured, just like any other road vehicle.

E-bike rider cleared of killing pedestrian in crash

The cyclist had been accused of causing death by careless driving

www.cyclingweekly.com

 

[steve mercier]

Someone in the UK on a de-restricted ebike hit and killed a pedestrian. They estimate the rider was going 30mph. They were on the street, in a vehicle lane. In my opinion, this is not an ebike at this point, it's a vehicle, and the driver and vehicle should be properly licensed and insured, just like any other road vehicle.

E-bike rider cleared of killing pedestrian in crash

The cyclist had been accused of causing death by careless driving

www.cyclingweekly.com

A cyclist was killed about 5 km from here last week by a vehicle that was properly licensed and insured.

 

[AHicks]

A cyclist was killed about 5 km from here last week by a vehicle that was properly licensed and insured.

That happens in Florida way too frequently. Pedestrians as well. If you are riding in a bike lane protected from traffic by nothing more than a painted line, you're taking your life in your hands. I refuse. Will not ride under those conditions.

 

[steve mercier]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227519511299084293

 

[Over50]

What I don't get about the video in the prior post: is that the driver passes the cyclist and therefore must be aware of his presence? No? I can see this happening if the cyclist was catching and passing vehicles. But I fail to understand how it happens when the vehicles are passing the cyclists and therefore must be aware of their presence.

This happens to me often in our bike lanes but I haven't been hit yet. The city buses are the absolute worst offenders. They will pass me - a couple of times the driver has given me a double horn honk as a warning - and then pull right into my path and block the bike lane. Whereas, were they to wait for me, they might be delayed a few seconds at most. I once went to the bus administration office and made a complaint. It got nowhere of course. But I didn't have video evidence.