Why not speed limits?

sounds like you work for...

peopleforbikes
To the contrary, I do not like what People for Bikes has done by pushing the state 3-class ebike legislation. I'm the one trying to get the CPSC to preempt that legislation because I think it was poorly conceived because it was intended to benefit a few large players (like Bosch) and eventually allow registration and insurance requirements on speed pedelecs / Class 3 ebikes as happened in Europe. There was zero merit to parsing the single class in the federal LSEB definition into 3 classes and the claims People for Bikes made about "clarity and safety" as just complete false claims for those that drink their koolaid. The elegance of the 2002 federal LSEB definition as a "bike" is best for the long term adoption of ebikes in the United States. State 3-class legislation should bother anyone that believes that ebikes could help with climate change and health efforts. When I read those claiming that class 1 is the only way ebikes were given trail access I just can't help but engage in the debate as that is pure nonesense.
 
To the contrary, I do not like what People for Bikes has done by pushing the state 3-class ebike legislation. I'm the one trying to get the CPSC to preempt that legislation because I think it was poorly conceived because it was intended to benefit a few large players (like Bosch) and eventually allow registration and insurance requirements on speed pedelecs / Class 3 ebikes as happened in Europe. There was zero merit to parsing the single class in the federal LSEB definition into 3 classes and the claims People for Bikes made about "clarity and safety" as just complete false claims for those that drink their koolaid. The elegance of the 2002 federal LSEB definition as a "bike" is best for the long term adoption of ebikes in the United States. State 3-class legislation should bother anyone that believes that ebikes could help with climate change and health efforts. When I read those claiming that class 1 is the only way ebikes were given trail access I just can't help but engage in the debate as that is pure nonesense.
behold pfb has spoken...
 
behold pfb has spoken...
Considering your comments such as "manually powered bikes should be limited to 20 mph on shared trails. ebikes designed to go over 20 mph via the motor should require licensing, and insurance" sounds much more like a PFBs advocate than anything I have ever posted on EBR. I wonder if you are sometimes just joking around but not that easy to pick up.

I will be crystal clear ... I think the 3-Class state legislation being promoted and pushed by People for Bikes is simply very bad legislation for the future of ebikes in the US. The federal definition did not need any additional clarity or class parsing.
 
Considering your comments such as "manually powered bikes should be limited to 20 mph on shared trails. ebikes designed to go over 20 mph via the motor should require licensing, and insurance" sounds much more like a PFBs advocate than anything I have ever posted on EBR. I wonder if you are sometimes just joking around but not that easy to pick up.

I will be crystal clear ... I think the 3-Class state legislation being promoted and pushed by People for Bikes is simply very bad legislation for the future of ebikes in the US. The federal definition did not need any additional clarity or class parsing.
so says you...

who are you that any should listen?

what have you done to further your cause? (other than pollute this forum)

seriously, get out there and do something, then report back on what you have done. (in the real world)

until then, you are like a broken record...

signed, Jim
 
so says you...

who are you that any should listen?

what have you done to further your cause? (other than pollute this forum)

seriously, get out there and do something, then report back on what you have done. (in the real world)

until then, you are like a broken record...

signed, Jim
Nice guy.

I did a lot of research into the regulations and I've done my best to communicate that information you say go out and do something....I wonder how many people without any professional legal assistance actually submit a petition to the CPSC. Being critical of this effort is a lot easier than trying to effect this change.

I remember your comment that insurance and registration requirements on Class 3 ebikes are inevitable so just have a check ready. Do you think that is a popular opinion with the readers of this forum. My efforts to get 3-class state legislation preempted is in large part driven by the assumption that will happen unless that state legislation is preempted. My goals are aligned with what I believe is best for current and future ebike riders. Yet you want to make me out to be the bad guy.

Have you read the Petition I posted in another thread for all to read? I'm hiding nothing about my efforts and it was a lot of work to research what was needed and to draft that document. I truly believe all ebike riders will benefit if the CPSC defends their LSEB definition.

Why not engage with me if you think I made some mistakes in the petition? I was hoping more would care about the regulations as they do impact the future adoption of ebikes.
 
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Nice guy.

I did a lot of research into the regulations and I've done my best to communicate that information.

I remember your comment that insurance and registration requirements on Class 3 ebikes are inevitable so just have a check ready. Do you think that is a popular opinion with the readers of this forum. My efforts to get 3-class state legislation preempted is in large part driven by the assumption that will happen unless that state legislation is preempted. My goals are aligned with what I believe is best for current and future ebike riders. Yet you want to make me out to be the bad guy.

Have you read the Petition I posted in another thread for all to read? I'm hiding nothing about my efforts and it was a lot of work to research what was needed and to draft that document. I truly believe all ebike riders will benefit if the CPSC defends their LSEB definition.

Why not engage with me if you think I made some mistakes in the petition? I was hoping more would care about the regulations as they do impact the future adoption of ebikes.
this forum is not the place to even begin to address the changes you want.

go find them (the places), apply yourself (learn the system), and check back in with your results in six months.

until then... Broken Record.
 
this forum is not the place to even begin to address the changes you want.

go find them (the places), apply yourself (learn the system), and check back in with your results in six months.

until then... Broken Record.
Was never expecting to address the changes on the EBR forums but I did think there would be more interest in the regulatory history and why the 3-Class state legislation may not be what it has been claimed to be.

While no one believes there is a conspiracy the fact that an executive with the largest car parts producer in the world was in the room with People for Bikes when the draft of the 3-class legislation was being written in my opinion is just simply wrong on many levels. I understand that is how business is done these days (corporations want to control the legislation that impacts them) but it does piss me off an an engineer that the most efficient form of transportation ever created is most likely being neutered to restrain the adoption rate.

I think your comment on insurance is dead on - it happened in Europe on the speed pedelec / Class 3 equivalent ebikes so it's most likely part of the plan here as well. That alone is worth my time to push for for the preemption - it will save ebikers $billions long term.
 
… You may want to also see how Specialized is selling their top of the line class 3 electric road bike without a speedometer in all 50 states (sure seems like they know that 3-class does not control 1st sale compliance but that bike is not legal to ride in any 3-class state that adopted the speedometer requirement of the ?model legislation? which I think is most of the 28/29 states). Sure seems like 3-class is just a clusterfuck of errors but hey everyone loves it.

this is curious to be sure, but they offer a <$100 handlebar display which remedies the omission, and are in the process of rolling out a new top tube display which includes a permanently on speedometer, perhaps to better align with the requirements in California. not confirmed yet if the 2022 creo will have it, but it’s in several other bikes already.
 
this is curious to be sure, but they offer a <$100 handlebar display which remedies the omission, and are in the process of rolling out a new top tube display which includes a permanently on speedometer, perhaps to better align with the requirements in California. not confirmed yet if the 2022 creo will have it, but it’s in several other bikes already.
I brought up the lack of a speedometer on this model to illustrate the bizarre situation - the CPSC controls controls compliance thru 1st sale such that the 3-class legislation has essentially no legal standing for what is sold in the 50 states yet the states that have adopted 3-class legislation regulate "use" with it. Sadly I get hammered by some on this forum for just mentioning clear facts like this.

I am a broken record on this....3-class legislation as pushed by People for Bikes is a poorly conceived legislative model and the industry would be far better served if they would have just promoted the idea that the federal definition of a LSEB as a bike in all 50 states which is what the intent of the 2002 HR727 bill was. Some on this forum insist that the only reason they can ride their ebike on some trails managed by "anti-throttle zealot trail managers" is because of the existence of Class 1.
 
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yes you are a broken record on this. im beginning to think it is a clinical mental disorder.
No....Just think it makes sense to put some time into this effort. Personally I think it's better to think independently than to be just believe the claims on 3-class.
 
Even 20mph assist limits are too fast for some people. This is from an article in Outdood Magazine:

"I also have my concerns about motor-powered mountain bikes: specifically, while 20 miles per hour might be an acceptable speed limit for urban use, it’s nearly double that of an elite athlete climbing on a singletrack and probably should be dialed back to prevent inevitable conflict with hikers and equestrians. "

Given that gravity will always be the major factor in the fastest riding speeds I think we should realize that the assist cut-offs are simply a bad way to regulate speed. Riders just have to be expected to ride at safe speeds and/or obey posted speed limits.
 
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behold pfb has spoken...
Here's their statement from their website (sure seems like they are avoiding credit for some reason - maybe because they know how bad it is):

The bicycle industry created Class 1, 2, and 3 designations for Low Speed Electric Bicycles (LSEBs) to clarify and describe their respective capabilities, and to support the enactment of appropriate legislation and regulations regarding LSEB equipment and usage on transportation and recreational facilities. Class 1, 2 and 3 LSEBs are classified as “electric bicycles” by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission and regulated by that agency under 16 C.F.R. Section 1512. To differentiate LSEBs from Out of Class Electric Vehicle (OCEVs), PeopleForBikes developed a policy position that outlines how OCEVs are not LSEBs and should not be labeled, marketed, or sold as LSEBs. LSEBs should not be modified by retailers or consumers to exceed the specifications of their class as manufactured. The use of OCEVs on facilities designed and designated for the use of bicycles and LSEBs may result in user conflicts and jeopardize PeopleForBikes’ ongoing efforts to promote uniform laws and gain wider acceptance and access for LSEBs.
 
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