Why did you buy a Riese & Müller?

[donoharm]

Hello everyone, I’m a long time cyclist who has been riding a friends ebike for a just under a week and I’m already set on getting my first ebike (this is my first post on this forum). I was set on a R&M Delite, but before pulling the trigger I have been doing a little reflecting on the price tag. I don’t really have a budget and can afford even the highest end ebike, but this is a lot of money. This is like 2-3 times the price of a Chinese ebike with a Bafang motor and chain drive. This is the same price as a Honda motorcycle...

As you all must have been in a similar position before pulling the trigger on yours, I’m curious to hear what justified the price for you.

 

[RMK!]

The R&M was the 8th ebike I purchase in the last 18 months. The first few were "experimental" and were on line orders of relatively inexpensive ebikes. Several went to family members and friends, I sold one and 4 remain. That includes 2 that I ride, one for the wife and one for friends/family to ride. For me, the R&M Delite GX dual battery is the best compromise ebike for my recreational - exercise rides. It is the best quality, best built ebike I have ridden and I do not consider it over priced.

The Specialized Turbo Creo was a fast - fun bike and was cost comparable to the Delite but the Delite is more in line with my overall goals in using an ebike. I ride approx 200 miles/week on trails and roads (paved and unpaved). The personal conditioning and health benefits of riding made the buy decision easy. When I do a cost benefit analysis on the Delite vs say a jet ski or motorcycle or even snow mobile the price becomes irrelevant.

I could get the same net benefit from an acoustic bike but at 70 years old, I could not cover the 30-50 miles I like to ride in +/- 2 hours like I can on the Delite while only expending the exact amount of energy I'm feeling that day. This morning I did a fast 40 miles with 10 of those miles on a single track trail. Pushed my riding ability a bit but the bike came through with flying colors. It has been one of my better purchases and to say I am Delighted, is both a pun and a fact.

 

[Luto]

It did not for me. I too was targeting the Charger or the Delite. On paper they look impressive. In person also. But I think the bike was too much of everything for me at 160 pounds. I rode 4 of them. Not what I would call a nimble bike.

So instead of going 10-11K, I went 5.5 K on a Moustache 29.5 Dimanche. I found the ride on the R&M, stout and like a Mercedes car. The Moustache Dimanche is more like a VW.

I wanted a snappier ride, under 40 pounds and no suspension. Also I wanted good components such as the Shimano GRX 800 brakes and derailleurs. I also did not want to spend that much money. You can still spend the money on other things like seats (Brooks), high end tires (Rene Herse Ultralights), bag (Revelate) and nice lights (Bontrager Flares), pedals (Shimano). Even after all that I am only 700 more and it is custom for me.

It really is a personal thing. A lot of people like them, but as a long time bike rider, E-bikes with full suspension that are not used for MTB riding, seem more down the "moped" road. It seems R&M has engineered the bike a lot too. E.g. brake lights integrated. For some that is a good thing to have everything integrated and "done", but for others it is not because we still like to customize-tinker-pimp. Also we want to have as many standard parts as possible for backwoods repairs on trips.

 

[Montañero]

Having just purchased an Homage HS Rohloff following a series of test rides I do not regret the substantial expenditure. I have about 100 miles on my bike and absolutely LOVE it. Nice integration of components and just a total joy to ride. The reports of various people getting in the 10's of thousands of miles on them without serious issues sold me as well. So far all I've done to the bike is Tannus Armor, a Basil MIK Trunk bag. The saddle is mediocre and I'll likely replace that and the pedals are junk so those are going but otherwise near perfect for me.

 

[donoharm]

It has been a long time since I've wrestled with a decision for a purchase. A well equipped Delite costs more than a new BMW F750 GS motorcycle.

 

[Montañero]

It has been a long time since I've wrestled with a decision for a purchase. A well equipped Delite costs more than a new BMW F750 GS motorcycle.

Apples and Oranges though, you can't take the BMW on some of the most beautiful bike paths in the world. I'm planning on doing this one soon in the Pacific Northwest, US on my Homage.

East Central Trail Segment | Olympic Discovery Trail

The East-Central quarter of ODT connects from Blyn through Sequim to Port Angeles. It is 26.4 miles long with 24.4 miles completed and paved.

olympicdiscoverytrail.org

I rode motorbikes from the time I was 16 well into my 40's, but no more.

 

[evolvable]

It has been a long time since I've wrestled with a decision for a purchase. A well equipped Delite costs more than a new BMW F750 GS motorcycle.

This thread might interest you, donoharm:

What Are We Paying For?

How can this: Be worth 2/3 of this: Explain it to me.

electricbikereview.com

 

[Alaskan]

I'm getting absolute reliability on a yuba bike I paid $1900 with accessories leading to free freight, and $840 electrifying it. 7000 miles, wore out one $221 geared hub motor, a pair of brake pads, broke a fender with my foot. New $700 hub motor should last longer. Rode the bike home unpowered without drag with the worn out hub motor.
There are bikes out there priced less than R&M with no complaints on the "known problems" thread. Say for example Kona. Zero complaints.

You just can't help but redirect every newbie to a bike they are not even asking about. If they want a Specialized you recommend a Trek. If they want a Trek you recommend a hub motor bike from China, if they ask about a Riese & Muller you talk about Yuma. WHY?

I have owned four Riese & Muller bikes. Three were absolutely rock solid dependable with rugged build quality, excellent components and more fully equipped than most other bikes. One was a lemon, a model that several people on this forum had no end of issues with. The 2019 Homage saw much needed modifications over the past two years.

We live in the Pacific Northwest and have ridden almost 15,000 miles on our Riese & Muller bikes on roads and trails all over Washington state. Seattle is blessed to have two good Riese & Muller dealers to choose from. I recommend you do some searching in this forum about Rohloff service problems and oil leaks. It is an uncommon problem but parts and service on Rohloff in North America has lead me back to favoring conventional derailleur, chain and cassette drive trains. They need regularly cleaning and lubrication, the various parts wear out and need replacing but any shop can work on them, and aside from the current global covid-driven parts shortage it is normally easy to get parts anywhere.

Our ebikes have allowed us to get down to one car between the two of us as I would rather ride than drive, weather permitting.

I will admit, my riding has evolved in the last two years to favor lighter, more nimble bikes. But our Riese & Muller Delite Mountain with derailleur, two batteries and Fox suspension will stay in the family and be handed down to one of our sons some day. It is the go-to, rock solid dependable SUV of bikes that I can't imagine ever selling.

 

[Jay Kay]

For me, it was the components and engineering. The belt drive and Bosch motor/battery system were first on my list. Top that off with Fox suspension and great gear hub options (the Enviolo was what sold getting two expensive ebikes to my wife - without it I would have been pushing getting just one ebike to be honest, with Jay "just buying another man toy"). Then there is the sublime aluminium frame with quality welds and overall great looks. I ride mine 80% off road, and the only other option was the Nicolai which is also a great bike but more hard core MTB than I really need in my mid 50's. If you can afford it (even if it is a stretch), you will have few if any regrets.

 

[Alanzo]

Saw a lot of video reviews of the Delite and I thought it was a perfect solution for all sorts of road conditions with and without vehicle traffic

What's cool about the Delite is it has huge tires and double suspension compared time trial bikes I had with skinny high psi tires and aero discs. The Delite is much more practical on any road with vehicle traffic, potholes, cracked asphalt including critters that run across the road. Can't beat hydraulic brakes and dual suspension for a great handling and control on bad pavement.

Funny thing is I am no longer riding a tweaked out aero bike and not close to the shape of younger days BUT with a couple batteries and a motor I end up with faster ride averages on the Delite. Recovery time to my legs is much quicker after a ride with an e-assist advantage. On climbs and into headwinds is where the e-assist gets a big thumbs up!!!

Still requires some pedaling effort and hard breathing to do a quick pace and I always get a good workout with the almost 70 lb. beast of a bike. Many years ago I would have never believed I'd eventually surpass what I use to see on the speedometer display of trip distance and average. The Delite is a keeper and definitely the best purchase of any bike I have owned. Whatever minor issues I may have with the Delite do not out weigh the overall performance and production quality. I am very fortunate to have this life experience riding an e-bike for however long it lasts.

 

[Luto]

almost 70 lb. beast of a bike

A lot of weight. For some people this is NOT a big deal since they hardly ever lift it onto a carrier or have to take it up stairs. But for those who do have to lift it, in can be a work out in itself going up 2 flight so stairs. But for all that weight you get a lot of higher quality parts-features.

 

[Alaskan]

I currently have to keep my bikes in the basement and lift them up 7 steps to go for a ride. I am a burly guy at 205lbs. 6'1", once pretty darn strong, but an also 70 years old with some health issues. I do have other bikes...but when the dual battery, 75 lb. tricked out Delite Mountain is the right bike, having to do the lift does not deter me. Nor do I bother with the ramp when putting it on the Thule Easy fold for transport. Yes I do remove the batteries and lock BEFORE lifting it onto the rack which makes it a 60 lb. lift. They key is grabbing it by the right balanced "handles", taking a moment to be in the right position and using my legs, not my back to do the lifting. Just like riding, it's all about good body mechanics.

 

[AleksR]

I bought supercharger2 because of dual battery and reliability. I got it during the pandemic and it was one of the few bikes they had in store. I wanted a touring bike not a mountain bike and this fit the bill. I paid top dollar because I am not interested in DIY and dealing with poor workmanship.

 

[RMK!]

We are on a nice getaway trip to the Northern California coast with our bikes this week. There are some terrific bike riding roads/trails around this part of the state and today I found an amazing trail in an area appropriately called "Islands in the Sky". I started off on an old fire road that forced me to test the mountain bike bonafides of the Delite GX Rohloff HS. Right off the bat there is a 2 mile 1000' climb section that included many short, steep climbs. Climbing this trail segment introduced me to 2nd & 3rd gears for the first time. It took me 25 minutes (sport mode) to ascend this beautiful 2 mile segment through giant redwoods but boy was it worth the effort. The 360 degree views of the ocean and coast range mountains at the top is just spectacular.

I'm not, by any stretch, a "good" mountain bike rider but the Delite GX is such a solid and nice handling bike that it gives me the confidence to push it a bit and ride slightly above my talent level. This was some rather steep and challenging terrain and I can't say enough good stuff about the bikes performance and the confidence it inspired in me.

I'm really sorry for those of you that have experienced problems with your R&M bikes. Granted, I'm only 600 miles in, but so far my R&M bike has exceeded every expectation and it is certainly worth the cost. IMHO

 

[Jay Kay]

We are on a nice getaway trip to the Northern California coast with our bikes this week. There are some terrific bike riding roads/trails around this part of the state and today I found an amazing trail in an area appropriately called "Islands in the Sky". I started off on an old fire road that forced me to test the mountain bike bonafides of the Delite GX Rohloff HS. Right off the bat there is a 2 mile 1000' climb section that included many short, steep climbs. Climbing this trail segment introduced me to 2nd & 3rd gears for the first time. It took me 25 minutes (sport mode) to ascend this beautiful 2 mile segment through giant redwoods but boy was it worth the effort. The 360 degree views of the ocean and coast range mountains at the top is just spectacular.

I'm not, by any stretch, a "good" mountain bike rider but the Delite GX is such a solid and nice handling bike that it gives me the confidence to push it a bit and ride slightly above my talent level. This was some rather steep and challenging terrain and I can't say enough good stuff about the bikes performance and the confidence it inspired in me.

I'm really sorry for those of you that have experienced problems with your R&M bikes. Granted, I'm only 600 miles in, but so far my R&M bike has exceeded every expectation and it is certainly worth the cost. IMHO

I’m jealous!

 

[amayers]

I got into biking as an adult a bit over 2 years ago. My first bike was an acoustic city bike with gates belt, and Envilo shifter. I fell in love the with the Gates, so when I decided to go ebike I got a mid-priced one with both a Gates & Envilo hub. Ran that for a bit over a year, and decided I wanted more. I wanted a 28 mph bike now that they were just becoming legal here. I also wanted suspension because our roads aren't so great around here and I wanted to try a few light dirt/gravel trails to see if that is something I liked doing. I had never heard of R&M at this point. However, when you try to find a full suspension bike, with a Gates belt & and motor... R&M is one of the only real options. I got a Superdelite, and now my wife has gotten into biking on my hand me down ebike. So we have a Homage on order for her. Yes it is the price of a motorcycle. But it essentially is a motorcycle. You have horn, low/high beams, brake light, full suspension, 14 speed internal gearbox, motor, hydraulic disk brakes, touch screen GPS. Yes it is a lot of money, but I ride it so much, we ended up selling our second car. It wasn't getting used. Now my wife is about to take our only car and go take care of a relative for a month. I'm not bothered by that, as I can ride my bike everywhere I need to go. Even though it's 12 mile round trip to the nearest store or restaurant. I ride 30 miles every other day now, and I can pick how much effort I want to expend, all while going 25 MPH. It's the best.

 

[Msharp]

I started riding an ebike to try and lose some weight and get a little healthier. Like most I didn't have a huge budget and didn't know much about ebikes , so I went to to university of YouTube and started checking them out .my first ebike was a radrover because of the price and I thought the fat tires would help with the rough roads .this bike was nice but with the fat tires I was getting flats all the time and removing the rear tire with the hub motor was a chore .after 6 months I started having problems with the hub motor and other things on the bike .I'm not really into working on bikes I don't mind the usual maintenance but I'm not a bike mechanic and don't want to . So I went back to researching bikes and realized you get what you pay for .my reasons for the R&M is very low maintenance, most comfortable ride and most all around use from one bike . I got the superdelite and now I use it to commute to work everyday 12 miles one way .and on the weekends I usually put 30 + miles in . I love that I can ride comfortably on the roads as well as dirt paths .I test rode about 8 other ebikes and because of the price test rode the R&M 15 times and it took me a year to pull the trigger but I'm glad I did .

 

[Scott Eakin]

The SuperDelight is my 3rd e-bike. It was a 70th birthday splurge. Previous bikes, Yubo El Boda Boda with Bionic hub motor, Haibike Trekking with Yahama drive. This Aril I added a Specialized Turbo Vado SL 5.0. The SuperDelight seemed soooo expensive that I was skeptical but I had so much fun riding the Haibike that I knew I wanted a mid drive and my low back wanted full suspension. There are no dealers near us but fortunately a dealer in the next state over brought some bikes to town for road tests. I was impressed. We rode all three iterations of the SuperDelight and also Homage and ended up with one each GT HS SuperDelight for me and GT HS dual battery Homage for my wife. Our hope was that we would do some multi day tours or longer trips and so the battery capacity was desirable. I have a little over 3000 miles on the SD as of today and have had it since May of 2020. I still love the bike but see it in a different light since adding the Vado SL to the stable. These days I ride the Vado SL almost exclusively unless I am really tired or going to the grocery store. About year ago I fell on the SD and ended up with some broken ribs, collar bone and a collapsed lung. Rightly or wrongly I felt like the weight of the SD contributed to the incident. It certainly contributes to some of the aggravations of owning the bike but also lends a solid feel. The Specialized Vado SL weighs about half what the SD does and I have found that if I want to ride a bike, that feels responsive and nimble it is always my pick. Surprisingly the range of the two bikes turns out to be nearly identical despite the Vado having only about 1/3 the battery capacity. Lighter weight, more rider contribution and less powerful motor make up for the difference. My wife has suggested that I sell the SD since I ride it so much less now but I think there is still a clear place for it in my cycling practices. Today I took it on a 20 mile ride with a stop at the grocery store. It was just right. I didn't work as hard as if I had taken the Vado but the bike did what it seems to me it was designed to do, replace a car trip. Now that is how I think of the SD. If I am commuting, heading to the store, beer run or just want to take it easy its the SD. If I want to ride, work up a sweat, clock some miles its the Vado. Im lucky to have the option and i think that the SD will continue to be part of the mix.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Surprisingly the range of the two bikes turns out to be nearly identical despite the Vado having only about 1/3 the battery capacity. Lighter weight, more rider contribution and less powerful motor make up for the difference. My wife has suggested that I sell the SD since I ride it so much less now but I think there is still a clear place for it in my cycling practices. Today I took it on a 20 mile ride with a stop at the grocery store. It was just right. I didn't work as hard as if I had taken the Vado but the bike did what it seems to me it was designed to do, replace a car trip. Now that is how I think of the SD. If I am commuting, heading to the store, beer run or just want to take it easy its the SD. If I want to ride, work up a sweat, clock some miles its the Vado. Im lucky to have the option and i think that the SD will continue to be part of the mix.

Your decision to keep both e-bikes was right. I'm in a similar position as you are, only my full power e-bike is different from yours.

 

[john peck]

Hello everyone, I’m a long time cyclist who has been riding a friends ebike for a just under a week and I’m already set on getting my first ebike (this is my first post on this forum). I was set on a R&M Delite, but before pulling the trigger I have been doing a little reflecting on the price tag. I don’t really have a budget and can afford even the highest end ebike, but this is a lot of money. This is like 2-3 times the price of a Chinese ebike with a Bafang motor and chain drive. This is the same price as a Honda motorcycle...

As you all must have been in a similar position before pulling the trigger on yours, I’m curious to hear what justified the price for you.

Actually, a 125cc Honda Supercub is a damn sight cheaper. I´m leary of any bike that largely requires
model specific parts. I paid $1200 for my German/Chinese/Japanese bike. The stock tires were a disaster,
but that solved, I´ve got 4000 mi. that have only needed a chain & brake pads. Mileage is virtually unlimited
once you get the hang of gears, modes or use the 28T on the triple chainring without power. It just gotten
better. It´s a bike 1st that happens to have a motor. Generic parts are widely available just about
anywhere which keeps the price down. Welcome to EBR.