When does an electric bike become an electric motorcycle?

[George S.]

@katie6963 -

It's a cute little bike. Not sure how Energie are doing down the road in Vegas.

I think a lot of us, especially people who can ride on paths sometimes, like things the way they are. Basically, there is a 20 mph speed limit and that makes it a bike. Utah is a little more complicated, requiring a driver license.

It's more fun than most people seem to realize.

 

[stevenast]

My Energie Excursion IS a motorcycle and I love it and the very idea that it is allowed on bike paths surprised me and fills me with joy.

It is wonderful that you get so much joy from your new (class 2) e-bike.

It tends to illustrates my point that we are at risk from the perceptions of the general public when you, as a new rider, state that you're so surprised that the Energie Excursion can be allowed on a bike path, and call it a "motorcycle"!

As @George S. points out, states have various laws. His state of Utah apparently requires a DL. In my state of Colorado, you can't ride your Excursion on a path unless you turn the power all the way off and only pedal it with your own power.

@katie6963 if you want to share, can you tell us the state where you ride your new e-bike?

That bike looks like a blast! I sincerely hope you get to ride it on paths for years to come.

 

[J.R.]

I know you are kidding about the above...

The song lyrics are nice. Good touch.

"come on people now
smile on your brother
everybody get together
try to love one another right now"

Oh I'm not kidding one little bit. If the ebike industry is overwhelmed by one manufacturer or an industry group and they tend to write the rule of what is available, they are a target for activists groups. I've seen it happen many times. Activists could insist on a financial settlement to help with access and that the mfg offer a $50 throttle. Problem is that many euro-ebike systems can't offer throttle. Such a lawsuit would garner a great deal of support from many groups (AARP, ACLU) and the media.

 

[stevenast]

Oh I'm not kidding one little bit. If the ebike industry is overwhelmed by one manufacturer or an industry group and they tend to write the rule of what is available, they are a target for activists groups. I've seen it happen many times. Activists could insist on a financial settlement to help with access and that the mfg offer a $50 throttle. Problem is that many euro-ebike systems can't offer throttle. Such a lawsuit would garner a great deal of support from many groups (AARP, ACLU) and the media.

No way.

Following the forum spirit of niceness all I can say is it that arguments presented above lack logical cohesion...

...and have no basis in fact.

This being one of the areas where politics and ebikes coincide, I will say that as a member, the ACLU would never file a lawsuit demanding that all e-bikes have a throttle. The idea is far-fetched. As long as a wheelchair is allowed on the trail, access is provided.

 

[stevenast]

I just thought of a humorous example. What if I can't swim? Will they file lawsuits requiring that swimming pools be emptied of water?

Luckily real-life access rules are governed mostly by common sense.

 

[Paul E.]

demanding that all e-bikes have a throttle.

Would the spirit of niceness allow pointing out that major straw man? "Offering a throttle" != "demanding that all e-bikes have a throttle".

 

[stevenast]

offer a $50 throttle. Problem is that many euro-ebike systems can't offer throttle

straw man

Out of context, Paul!

Edit: in this case his word was "insist" and my word was "demand" ...that certainly was not unfair of me, those words have a very similar connotation

The point he's making is that the European e bike manufacturers would be out of luck, therefore my point is fair.

 

[Paul E.]

I just thought of a humorous example. What if I can't swim? Will they file lawsuits requiring that swimming pools be emptied of water?

Luckily real-life access rules are governed mostly by common sense.

Even more humorous and much more analogous to the ebike debate: what if you can swim? Should you demand that nobody in the pool is allowed to use floating devices?

 

[stevenast]

Even more humorous and much more analogous to the ebike debate: what if you can swim? Should you demand that nobody in the pool is allowed to use floating devices?

More accurate would be to say can the pool prohibit flotation devices? Answer: yes.

 

[J.R.]

No way.

Following the forum spirit of niceness all I can say is it that arguments presented above lack logical cohesion...

...and have no basis in fact.

This being one of the areas where politics and ebikes coincide, I will say that as a member, the ACLU would never file a lawsuit demanding that all e-bikes have a throttle. The idea is far-fetched. As long as a wheelchair is allowed on the trail, access is provided.

You do see what you want to see! Nowhere did I say anyone in particular would file a lawsuit, much less the ACLU. I said an activist group that would have support. A demand wouldn't require a throttle on all bikes and a wheelchair is not equal access. Nowhere did I make an argument that such a lawsuit would be advised or supported by me. It would not have my support, but it's denial to suggest that it won't happen. Happens and works everyday.

You don't know the point I'm making, you don't read my posts. I'm not making the point you suggest, leave my words to make my point. The point is to leave well enough alone! We have it good at present, flying under the radar of public scrutiny. That may not last. Leave throttles be to those that need them, if you don't need one good, but that may not last forever either. We have a saying in A.B.A.T.E.; Let those who ride decide!

 

[stevenast]

We have a saying in A.B.A.T.E.; Let those who ride decide!

Riders unfortunately don't make the laws, lawmakers do.

My concern is that e-bike riders get maximum access as those laws are made.

 

[pxpaulx]

Riders unfortunately don't make the laws, lawmakers do.

My concern is that e-bike riders get maximum access as those laws are made.

Then why does the proposed law begin by conceding a throttle?

 

[stevenast]

Then why does the proposed law begin by conceding a throttle?

No need for me to repeat. the quotes contain the Q and the A.

Riders unfortunately don't make the laws, lawmakers do.

 

[Paul E.]

More accurate would be to say can the pool prohibit flotation devices? Answer: yes.

Why would the pool do that and why would someone defend them doing that and support laws that mandate all pools doing that? Just to be aholes and beat down on those who can't swim very well yet and make sure they never get a chance to learn, to reserve all pools to those who "deserve" to enjoy being in water and banish perceived "cheaters"?

 

[katie6963]

D

It is wonderful that you get so much joy from your new (class 2) e-bike.

It tends to illustrates my point that we are at risk from the perceptions of the general public when you, as a new rider, state that you're so surprised that the Energie Excursion can be allowed on a bike path, and call it a "motorcycle"!

As @George S. points out, states have various laws. His state of Utah apparently requires a DL. In my state of Colorado, you can't ride your Excursion on a path unless you turn the power all the way off and only pedal it with your own power.

@katie6963 if you want to share, can you tell us the state where you ride your new e-bike?

That bike looks like a blast! I sincerely hope you get to ride it on paths for years to come.

Dear Stevenast,
Thank You for your response and to the many posts to this thread. I live aboard my beloved old microcruiser in secluded coves between the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam. As auxiliary power to my sails I use electric motors powered by the photovoltaic array that shades my helm. My boat mate, Charly, and I don't drive so obtaining provisions has been a recurring challenge. We are both incredibly grateful to everyone at Energie for their over the top support. They even modified the bike so that Charly (She is 5'2") and I (5'8") could both use it. We are the customer most businesses would ignore. Arron assured me that he would come to the lake if we had any problems.
Thanks again to everyone in this thread. It's important to me. I agree with almost every facet of the complex prism examined here but the idea of bears on ebikes gave me giggle fits.

 

[stevenast]

D
Dear Stevenast,
Thank You for your response and to the many posts to this thread. I live aboard my beloved old microcruiser in secluded coves between the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam. As auxiliary power to my sails I use electric motors powered by the photovoltaic array that shades my helm. My boat mate, Charly, and I don't drive so obtaining provisions has been a recurring challenge. We are both incredibly grateful to everyone at Energie for their over the top support. They even modified the bike so that Charly (She is 5'2") and I (5'8") could both use it. We are the customer most businesses would ignore. Arron assured me that he would come to the lake if we had any problems.
Thanks again to everyone in this thread. It's important to me. I agree with almost every facet of the complex prism examined here but the idea of bears on ebikes gave me giggle fits.

Your story is warm, fascinating, and even inspiring! Thank you for sharing it. Please keep us up to date with your "adventures on Energie"!

 

[bareyb]

It's a shame we have to have discussions like this. We don't need any more nanny laws. If people ride recklessly and somebody gets injured, we have laws in place to deal with it already. Creating more laws is not the answer. Laws like this will only hurt the law abiding.

 

[stevenast]

It's a shame we have to have discussions like this. We don't need any more nanny laws. If people ride recklessly and somebody gets injured, we have laws in place to deal with it already. Creating more laws is not the answer. Laws like this will only hurt the law abiding.

Pedestrians. Children. Elderly. E-bikes share paths with them. Making new laws to regulate this growing product category is a proactive, progressive approach to public safety.

As e-bike riders, most of us would probably prefer less regulation. I'm pretty sure the general public does not agree.

 

[Paul E.]

Pedestrians. Children. Elderly. E-bikes share paths with them. Making new laws to regulate this growing product category is a proactive, progressive approach to public safety.

Motorless bikes also share paths with them. Why are they allowed to go faster than e-bikes? If a lycra runs into a pedestrian at 30 mph, does the pedestrian not get hurt?

 

[stevenast]

Motorless bikes also share paths with them. Why are they allowed to go faster than e-bikes? If a lycra runs into a pedestrian at 30 mph, does the pedestrian not get hurt?

Answer: They are not using a throttle.