What's your thoughts & suggestions?

[Tars Tarkas]

I don't get the idea that taking one hand off the handlebars is a problem, but I'll accept that it is for some people. What I won't accept is that anyone, anyone, legitimately operating any kind of vehicle on the roads doesn't know what hand signals are and what they mean. That's just an excuse some people use to justify not using them. Now, that doesn't mean that if you use hand signals you're going to be immune from other people's inattention, arrogance, or idiocy. Electric turn signals don't provide that either.

TT

 

[m@Robertson]

I have not been using the blinking mode on my lights since I read your post @m@Robertson, regarding numbers of motorists not being able to accurately tell your exact location and trajectory with blinking lights.

My best guess is you can solve the eye-tracking problem by using both steadies and a blinkie. But unlike the research on the moth effect - which itself is not entirely conclusive - I've got nothing to back that up except a gut feeling.

I can say for certain though, that as an ebike rider commuting at 430 am on a deserted rural road, I have come up on early morning cyclists who have just a single blinkie and I had plenty of time to verify that - for sure - the blinkie alone on a dark road gave me a very false picture of how fast I was catching up to the rider, and it was difficult to tell how far I was away from them until I got pretty close (at the time I was riding my 2wd, 28 mph cruiser vs. an analog cyclist).

 

[pmcdonald]

The Nightrider Sentinal 250 is the best I have seen for enhancing visibility and being seen. It is really two lights in one. In addition to a 250 lumen tail light with a good variety of modes it has two lasers that lay down bright red lane lights about 12 feet long on the road on either side of your bike.

Sentinel™ 250 Bike Taillight with Laser Lanes

[av_textblock size='' font_color='' color=''] The Sentinelª 40 has a powerful 2 watt LED, 5 modes, is USB rechargeable and has a brand new safety feature, Laser Lanes! The Laser Lanes mode is designed to project ultra bright laser lines on the ground, giving the rider their own virtual lane. The...

www.niterider.com

It i

Thanks for the recommendation. I've been using Cygolite Hotshots the better part of the last decade, which I've loved and find VERY bright at 200 lumens. Customisability of the flash is brilliant as well. The Nightrider looks even brighter and price isn't too prohibitive either.

I'm always sure to angle my tail light into the car lane and at eye height so there's no missing it, though not sure it would have made any difference to the unit driving the car in the OPs case.

 

[BlackHand]

So @Nvreloader had a neon pool noodle thingy with a reflector, a white t shirt, a bike blinker, and a helmet blinker AND signalled their turn?

I'm not sure any additional lights would have changed the outcome of this particular situation. Some drivers are just on autopilot.

Having said that, I find when turning right that cars pay more attention if I am more assertive:
After making sure with my mirror that I'm not about to be imminently run over, I'll turn my head so the following driver knows I'm aware of them, then I swing out to take the lane. Once in the lane I signal with my  right hand.* If its dark, I'll twist my hand a couple times to ensure the headlights catch my gloves that are hi-vis on the back. Then both hands go back on the bars to brake and execute the turn.

*legal in my state. I mostly stopped signalling right turns with my left hand after about the 5th time an approaching driver 'waved' back at me on my commute.

 

[Solarcabin]

I don't know that it is illegal but putting blue or red lights on the front of an ebike would probably get you attention from the cops you don't want and could be seen as impersonating police. It is illegal to have those on a motorcycle or car in my state.

My cousin gave me a couple of small led strobes and I use the red one on my dog trailer and keep the white one on the ebike just in case my headlight went out. They just clip on and also good for hiking or anytime you are out at night or if you break down somewhere.

I have very light sensitive eyes so I try to not drive at night because I get blinded by traffic and even bright store or street lights bother me. I have some special tinted glasses for night driving and I recommend you always wear goggles/protective glasses when riding and if you ride in winter get the kind made for skiers to prevent snow blindness.

I got hit by some hard shelled bug on my ride yesterday and if I hadn't had my glasses on it would have hit right in my eye plus the trucks kick up gravel and getting hit in the eye by that would mess up your day.

Hope you find some lights that work for you and I do recommend turn signals and good mirrors for all bikes and ebikes. I think they should be included as standard equipment. More ebikes now come with a head light and tail light so that is progress.

 

[kevinmccune]

Blue lights are actually against every state DOT code. Cops on bikes and motorcycles use blue lights. I have a friend that tried to fight a blue light ticket on a motorcycle and the judge found him guilty and told him nothing on the street can have a blue light.

If you Google the question "can I use blue lights on a bicycle" you'll get pages of laws and blogs. Just one example from Florida Bicycle Law (.org).

Question​

Frank asked: Is it legal or illegal to have blue lights on your bike? I have red white and blue and I don’t want to get in any trouble over it.

Answer​

Certain lights and reflectors are required on a bicycle and additional lights may be used.


Blue lights are not permitted on any vehicle.

Thats what I thought, seen the strangest thing right after the RT29 abductions and murders, on a road not so far away from rt 29, I saw what looked like a 70's some Olds Toronado that had somebody pulled over with a blue light. Years ago and I do not know if the murders were ever solved. Supposedly the "Perp" was driving a Nissan pickup.

Blue lights are actually against every state DOT code. Cops on bikes and motorcycles use blue lights. I have a friend that tried to fight a blue light ticket on a motorcycle and the judge found him guilty and told him nothing on the street can have a blue light.

If you Google the question "can I use blue lights on a bicycle" you'll get pages of laws and blogs. Just one example from Florida Bicycle Law (.org).

Question​

Frank asked: Is it legal or illegal to have blue lights on your bike? I have red white and blue and I don’t want to get in any trouble over it.

Answer​

Certain lights and reflectors are required on a bicycle and additional lights may be used.


Blue lights are not permitted on any vehicle.

 

[kevinmccune]

So @Nvreloader had a neon pool noodle thingy with a reflector, a white t shirt, a bike blinker, and a helmet blinker AND signalled their turn?

I'm not sure any additional lights would have changed the outcome of this particular situation. Some drivers are just on autopilot.

Having said that, I find when turning right that cars pay more attention if I am more assertive:
After making sure with my mirror that I'm not about to be imminently run over, I'll turn my head so the following driver knows I'm aware of them, then I swing out to take the lane. Once in the lane I signal with my  right hand.* If its dark, I'll twist my hand a couple times to ensure the headlights catch my gloves that are hi-vis on the back. Then both hands go back on the bars to brake and execute the turn.

*legal in my state. I mostly stopped signalling right turns with my left hand after about the 5th time an approaching driver 'waved' back at me on my commute.

You used to have known the hand signals to get a drivers license, nowadays I think you have to be the proper age to get one.

 

[kevinmccune]

Unfortunately, blinkers to indicate a directional turn are just not going to work on a bicycle that is trying to get a result from overtaking autos - here in the USA at least where the closing speeds are considerable. The ineffectiveness of the directional blinker is for a couple of reasons. If the light is part of a single unit on the seatpost, the issue is an oncoming auto at speed is just going to see a blinking light. The driver doesn't have the time to process the light and the arrow and the fact the arrow is on the left side of that (to them) really small light fixture under your seat. Unfortunately also... and this is more of a USA thing, an auto driver most likely considers themselves to have primacy on the road and they aren't going to take a blinker seriously. Making a signal and then taking the lane to make a left turn for instance, can result in squealing brakes and a lot of anger from a driver. Been there and done that.

I tried to get around the side-separation issue with a product called Winglights that go on as bar-ends. Long story short they didn't work. Very bright but drivers don't seem to expect directional blinkers on a bike, and they certainly didn't respect them.

Getting past the use of blinking lights as blinkers, I still use them as part of a taillight solution. BUT... because research shows that blinking lights make it more difficult for an overtaking driver to measure/ gauge your progress I use more than one light. One blinker in the center and two bright solids on the sides. A Knog Big Cobber can issue a bright momentary blink that is up to 470 lumens. A Knog Blinder Square can put out 100 lumens.

View attachment 134268

And notice how I put a piece of turned-up aluminum flat bar on the rack? That bar is lined with 3M prismatic (street sign) tape for a big red passive reflector.

I laid out other options here. Not the least of which are lights that use interruptive blink modes designed for hi visibility while at the same time preventing a moth effect.

Which Rear Bicycle Lights Should I use?

Should you use blinking lights? Steady lights? Bright lights? Daytime lights? Here’s what I do and why.

talesontwowheels.com

The drivers ignore them on cars why would a bike be any different?

 

[J.R.]

You used to have known the hand signals to get a drivers license, nowadays I think you have to be the proper age to get one.

You still need to know hand signals for every written driving test I know of. States that require a beginner's motorcycle rider safety course to get the MC endorsement require the rider to use hand signals. Everyone driving today has been exposed to hand signal information.

@Solarcabin :

 

[Nvreloader]

Maybe the noodle pool thingy.?
Would cause the screeching tires from motorists. Just for thrills.
It's stupid looking.

Rome
It may be stupid looking to you,
BUT, I don't/can't reach out and touch a passing vehicle, any more..........
including an 18 wheeler truck and trailer combo, that ran me off the road,
almost putting me into a 4 strand barbed wire fence.
YMMV,
Don

 

[J.R.]

Rome
It may be stupid looking to you,
BUT, I don't/can't reach out and touch a passing vehicle, any more..........
including an 18 wheeler truck and trailer combo, that ran me off the road,
almost putting me into a 4 strand barbed wire fence.
YMMV,
Don

You can buy these. I see them advertised for between $30 and $99. I think I'd buy a Lumos helmet before a vest, as I always ride with a helmet anyway.

 

[Djangodog]

View attachment 134353

The biggest drawback with universal hand signals is that you can’t buy them on Amazon.

There may be states where you can get a license without knowing hand signals, but they are universal and still part of the driver’s test in NH, VT and MA. So I know that drivers around here understand them. It’s not rocket science.

 

[m@Robertson]

The drivers ignore them on cars why would a bike be any different?

The alternative is to do nothing; use no lights, That is for sure a worse choice.

I got hit (an off-center t-bone) in what is known as a SMIDSY type of accident. I had three steady headlights running and asked myself afterwards wtf else I could have done (in bike lane. Check. Not going very fast. Check. Made eye contact. Check - except driver was looking thru me not at me it turns out).

The 'what more?' answer was to add a blinker (I use multiple headlights to provide a good light pattern for me to see; not to ward off evil). I don't like blinkers and I know other drivers don't like them either, but there aren't a lot of other options. Right?

 

[kevinmccune]

The biggest drawback with universal hand signals is that you can’t buy them on Amazon.

There may be states where you can get a license without knowing hand signals, but they are universal and still part of the driver’s test in NH, VT and MA. So I know that drivers around here understand them. It’s not rocket science.

I don't think you need to know the hand signals to get a CDL in VA, I don't remember any questions concerning them on the written part of the CDL of course initially I was "grandfathered in", I took the class'B",I avoided the Class " A like the plague

 

[Rexlion]

Just fooling around a bit today... I got my 3-set of LED " road flares" out of the vehicle to check the batteries, and while changing batts I got an idea. I found a slightly longer machine screw and attached an UltiClip to the back of a flare. The center of the flare has a magnet, and that plus the screw keep the clip securely in position. The light is orange instead of red, but it's plenty bright and noticeable. I can clip it at my back on the waistband or else on my reflective strap harness.

These emergency flare thingies have about 9 different flashing, rotating, and steady-light modes. The rotating mode is a real eye-catcher.

 

[J.R.]

View attachment 134353
Bike riders come in all ages and there is no test or required classes for bikes so how do you think they are learning those hand signals you seem to think everyone knows?

Did your ebike come with a hand signals instruction manual?

To think most drivers of cars can tell the difference in your hand brake signal or throwing away some gum or scratching your butt is ridiculous!

I think all people should know hand signals but they don't and drivers do know turn signals and those can be seen from a long ways off without requiring you to take your hand off the bars and hope you don't hit a pothole but if you want to use hand signals alone you can take that chance. Smart people know turn signal lights work which is why they require them on motorcycles and you can use both.

Taking your hand off the bike means giving up your second hand brakes which you may need for a fast stop. Ever watched a kid try riding with one hand on bumpy roads? They are all over the place because they don't have your upper body strength and neither do many older people and telling them they have to take a hand off the bars to throw a hand signal could get them killed.

That's for club riding in a peloton, and the page you got that diagram states:

"See some common hand signals below. If you are riding with a new group, we encourage you to discuss what hand signals to use so everyone understands."

I sometimes ride with groups and we do use many of those signals for the riders behind. We also pass along "car back", or on a trail "rider ahead". The average lone rider or commuter only uses 2 or 3 signals, right turn, left turn and sometimes stop. For years I commuted thousands of miles a year by bike and then ebike. I saw the same riders day in and day out and everyone uses hand signals. If a driver had somehow forgot a commuter cyclist let them know as loudly as they could with a few other hand signals. Commuter cyclists see all the BS drivers do, you are finely attuned, head on a swivel. Some are pretty ornery and scrappy.

These are the only signals needed:



Do whatever you feel will keep you safe. I've never told you not to use your blinkers, or that they were useless. Do your thing, but don't trash a time tested and statistically proven method of safe riding. A method still being taught to kids today.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Right hand turns could also be signified using one’s left arm bent up flat at a 90 degrees. At least that's what I was taught as a kid and use to this day.

 

[J.R.]

Right hand turns could also be signified using one’s left arm bent up flat at a 90 degrees. At least that's what I was taught as a kid and use to this day.

That's the way I do it as well. Maybe it's the North American way, that diagram SC posted is from NSW, Australia, maybe that's the way they do it.

Edit: I changed the diagram because SC deleted his post I replied to.

 

[Prairie Dog]

That's the way I do it as well. Maybe it's the North American way, that diagram SC posted is from NSW, Australia, maybe that's the way they do it.

Edit: I changed the diagram because SC deleted his post I replied to.

Yeah, typical knee jerk post from the cut-and-paste king. That might work down under but somewhat confusing for those on this side of the pond.

 

[Nvreloader]

These are the only signals needed:

View attachment 134364

J.R.
The above hand signals are the mandatory one's,
I have to use here in NV, per the Dept of Traffic Safety,
for bike riding/use on the pavement.
Tia,
Don