(Jan 2021 update: I am attaching the following link to my posting(s) located over at the BikTrix ebike companys' EBReview forum site:
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-sensor-bottom-bracket-price-is-200-00.40097/
As of today, Jan 5th, it is a work-in-progress. It should make current M2S ebike owners really appreciate their very correct ebike purchase. I also realize that many potential ebike buyers cruise these forums as an aid in their search for the ideal ebike at the most practical price. They also need to be made aware of “brand service after the sale”, or lack/deception thereof. After all, an ebike purchase of $1,500+ is no small investment. You be the judge.)
ADDENDUM on Oct 30, 2020:
The 2018 KUSH now has 14,800 total miles. At mile 2,500 I commenced the multi-tire combo experiment, so that means 12,300 miles of multi-tire usage for the KUSH. The 2019 R750 hardtail (aka WhiteyFord-- r.i.p. Whitey) now has 6,600 total miles, every one of which is while utilizing the multi-tire combo formula. That is a total of 18,900 (and counting) absolutely trouble-free flat-free riding miles. Ya can't beat that with a stick..
Recently I became aware of, and purchased, the 20”-24”-26”x1.75”-2.35” version of this 3XL ebike-specific MrTuffy tire liner:https://www.amazon.sg/Tuffy-Electric-Tire-Liner-Protector/dp/B07HXXVJKL [UPDATE: Be sure to read the customer reviews on this Amazon website.. They might just prove to be a game changer.] If you read the remainder of this post, you will be made aware of my “experience” with the original (not labeled as EBIKE) MrTuffy 3XL tire liners. I bought an ebike version because I have another project in progress AND because I was curious via what “glue” MrTuffy was using (apparently, it is an epoxy compound) because lordy knows I tried a bunch of different adhesion options.
Anyway, I wanted you to be made aware of this new MrTuffy option.
Since tires have a finite life due to tire wear, I am curious in regards to these liners being transferable to the new tire. Also, what adhesive will be used?
If I were to use these liners on a rear hub fat tire ebike, I would put 2 on that 25 pound rear tire. Even then, you are only getting bottom tread area protection, not complete sidewall protection, too (my multi-tire combo's provide that complete sidewall coverage).
ADDENDUM on Jan 10, 2020: Since I now have numerous threads posted (sorry about that), I want to let viewers know their chronological sequence, thus every thread title will begin with (# )
ADDENDUM on June 13, 2020:
Item 1: https://tannusamerica.com/pages/tannus-armour Finally, an insert for Fat Tire ebikes..
Item 2: Some Fat Tire rims are 80mm (3" wide)-- Some are 100mm (4" wide). Just take a ruler and measure across the rim spoke area/face. M2S rims are 80mm/3".. Bolton ebikes use a 100mm/4" rim width.
Item 3: Some really neat low profile tires: https://boltonebikes.com/collections/accessories/products/fat-bike-low-profile-street-tire I bought a pair because my fat tire rims are 80mm/3" wide. I haven't mounted them as of yet, but, then again, the days not over.. Also, check out their website-- some really nice ebikes..
Addendum on Feb 12, 2020:
In regards to my 3-tire combo recipe(s), I get occasional input from riders wondering why not just use a “tubeless tire” configuration instead. When I first began my journey to eliminate the Fat Tire Flat Tire monster, I definitely investigated that option. However, due to the following items (as determined back in Summer of 2018), I decided to (eventually) go with my recipe instead:
a) a special “tubeless rated” tire must be used. In the Fat Tire genre, it is not unheard of for these tires to cost $100.00 each.
b). Your current rim may, or may not, be compatible with a tubeless setup. Only one way to find out.
c). a special type of rim tape is needed. A certain width is required.
d). A special stand-alone air valve is required.
e). liquid goop has to be injected into the tire.
f). a “rapid fill” air input method is required to properly “seat” the tire bead and the rim. If not successful, a repeat performance is required until the “seat” does take. I assume that some of the goop will escape and entail a sloppy mess.
g). the goop must be replenished every month or so.
h). getting a flat tire may require installing a regular inner tube. This also means that the special stand-alone valve must be removed. Figure in the need to still carry a complete flat tire fix-it kit: wrench/ spare 4” inner tube (quite heavy)/ tire levers/ patch kit (ya never know)/ 16 ounce CO2 cartridges (4 at a minimum for fat tire bikes)/ air inflater or mini-pump.. They all add up to extra weight always having to be carried along for “just in case”.
I do alot of winter riding in sub-freezing temperatures-- departing when 7 degrees outside and returning after a four hour ride with the temperature being 22 degrees. How do such temps affect the liquid goop inside the tire (and which is needed to insure a continued tight tire bead/rim seal) Will a sudden impact “break” the goop seal, thus leading to a flat tire?
I have also noticed that most of the advocates for the tubeless tire setup option do not actually own a fat tire ebike with a rear hub motor. This rear wheel/tire setup, in stock form, weighs in at 25 pounds-- an entire “old school” bike, even a dual-suspension mountain bike, can weigh less than that (25 pounds). So when you are dealing with a beast (which these 750w fat tire ebikes certainly are), you are also dealing with a real porker-- 60+ pounds for the entire ebike is the norm. All the weight that the rear wheel must contend with cannot be overlooked. I know that a mid-drive powered ebike has a (basically) stock rear wheel setup (exactly like an old school bicycle). Thus, the extra weight has been re-located to the front crankset/bottom bracket area and is a non-facter when dealing with a rear tire flat and needing to remove the entire wheel.
So, after considering all of the above information I decided to just continue onward in my pursuit of an alternative “fix”. It took some doing AND luck, but I finally did it. The following 3-Tire Combo Recipe is the result. And, after 10,000+ miles (thus far) of flat-free riding, I have felt very comfortable in posting this information for any/all owners of any brand of Fat Tire ebike which uses a rear hub motor setup. After all, once you have had to deal with the removal/re-installation of the very heavy rear wheel, you will not want to have to tackle it again for a long, long time-- and especially not while out on a ride..
As far as tires used in my recipe just adhere to the following ..Also, ANY tire brand can be used.:
a). you can use 2 tires or 3 tires, or even more if you want to (but why). The “outer tire” can be whatever you want it to be: knobbie/studded for ice and snow/ dual purpose/ city tread/ slick tire. However, for the “inner tire(s)” you must use a tire with maximum rubber (city slick,etc.) and NO KNOBBIES-- those knobs will be ripped off due to all the stress/torque taking place. You will have little “lumps” everywhere.. Been there, done that.. As for tire sizing: do NOT exceed ½ inch difference between EACH tire (4”,, 3.5”,, 3”.. but never 4”,, 3”,, 2”(too much “dead air” space)..
I even still use SLIME in my tubes because ya just never know, but I only inject 2 ounces instead of the usual 4 ounces. Besides, I have the 1 gallon super-size SLIME container.. Gotta use it up some way.
So, as I stated above, this “recipe” formula is for use with ANY Fat Tire ebike.
Try it, you'll like it.. ]]
[ ADDED on Feb 7, 2020:
As for how I came upon my 3 tire combo recipes: I literally stumbled onto the idea. When my 2018 Kush arrived, I decided to keep the shipping box for "just in case". The box proved to be excellent storage for my numerous tires (I own 6 bikes). One day I was searching for a certain tire. I pulled every tire out of that box and the tire in question was nowhere to be found. So, as I was returning each tire back into the box, I paid closer attention. Sure enough, it was a tire-in-a-tire. They fit like gloves and the weight gain was so minuscule that I hadn't even noticed when removing the culprits. That is when I had my Einstein Moment. Then I thought : if 2 tires is workable, 3 tires would be Da Bomb. After all, with those huge 3+" rims, anything is possible/practical. So, there you have it.
An added bonus when using 3 tires is that you have 3 sidewalls supporting your outer tire instead of just one. That makes using lower air pressure much more viable. I have reduced my pressure down as low as 10 pounds and everything felt just fine and dandy. Also, I still use SLIME-- just not very much-- 2 ounces per inner tube maximum.
If you're considering using only 2 tires instead of 3, then go for it.. Either it works OR it doesn't.. Plan "A".. Plan "B".. An additional thought: Go to your local bicycle shop (lbs) and experiment with their supply of tires to get a feel for what you are (potentially) dealing with. Just be sure to let them know what you are up to-- otherwise, they might think you are trying to pull a fast one on them.
Also, I see occasional concerns regarding "rotational mass", due to the added weight of my multiple tire configurations, possibly slowing down/ incumbering the performance of these 750 watt (1 horsepower) beasts.. Forget about it.. I always refer to my 2 Fat Tire ebikes as "beasts". They are also, due to their 60+ pound weight, "pigs", "whales", "hippos", "elephants", etc. The best thing you can do for your Fat Tire ebike is to swap out those bulbous 4" knobbie tires for 3"low profile beach bum/city slick tires.. The performance/acceleration increase is very dramatic indeed. However, even with the 4" tires, I have no complaints about acceleration, etc. After all, I have the capability of comparing the two different tire sizes immediately since the 2018 KUSH has 4 " knobbies and Whitey Ford has 3" beach bum city slicks. ]
This post now has 1,000 “views” and, upon reviewing it, I feel the need for an update to, and tiding up of, same. So, here goes. ADDENDUMS were added on Jan 4th and on Jan 5th..
(Jan.5, 2020 ADDENDUM):I keep forgetting to include the following 2 European websites to this thread. They both have awesome selections of city/street/slick Fat Tires:
https://classic-cycle.com/wheel-and-tire/tires-tubes-parts/tires/26-inch-tire/ and
http://store.ruff-cycles.com/ruff-cycles-bicycle-parts/wheels-tires/tires.html
Prices are very decent and delivery cost/delivery time are both excellent.
Also, remember that the inner tire(s) will never be visible so it/they can be any color (black/brown/white/ white or red or orange gangsta sidewalls, etc. Just some food for thought.
I am seeing ebikes of every style out and about on the local bike paths. More every weekend. The 2019 Christmas holiday season is upon us. Ebikes are being sold at really awesome price discounts and are therefore, selling at a fantastic pace. Thus, there are going to be a HUGE volume of sales as a result. A large percentage of those ebike sales will be for Fat Tire ebikes. Lets face it: people REALLY like those BIG FAT tires. What they WON'T like is dealing with FLAT tires..
It is now Nov 17,2019. Way back on Feb 6, 2019, when I originally posted this thread, my 2018 KUSH dual suspension, 750 watt rear hub, fat tire ebike, had 4,200 miles on the odometer. It had been outfitted with the marvelous 3-tire Combo recipe at mile #2,500. It is now Nov. 17, 2019 and the wonderful mighty beast currently shows 10,004 miles. Additionally, on May 31, 2019, a white 2019 M2S(brand) R750(model) (750watt rear hub) hardtail (front suspension only) ebike arrived at my front door. It now has a total of 2,238 miles on its' odometer. This newest toy had the 3-tire combo installed on it before ever leaving my living room.
So, with a total of nearly 10,000 miles of 3-tire combo set-up(both ebikes combined) behind me, I feel pretty much qualified to state that the 3-tire combo set-up is a success. Do you know how often, whenever you get into your car/van/truck/suv, one thing that crosses your mind is “Gee, I wonder if I'm gonna get a flat tire today”.?? The answer: NEVER.. Well, with my unique formula, you can transfer that same mindset (or absence thereof) over to your fat tire ebike. I swear to god, the ONLY time that I ever even form a thought about a “flat tire” is when I see another bike rider dealing with the malady.
I go out for a 50-60 mile bike ride every day (weather permitting). In doing so, I do NOT want a mechanical/flat tire issue to arise. I ride to ride.. Not to Stop and Repair.. Anything that I can do to negate a distraction from The Ride is a godsend. That being the case, I eventually came up with the 3-tire Combo formula. And it works so dang perfectly that you have to actually install it to really appreciate it.Imagine having no spare inner tube, tire/CO2 pump, 16ounce CO2 cartridges, tire levers, or patch kit in your possession whenever you go out for a bike ride. You just go out for a bike ride and actually do that bike ride with NO distractions (bike-wise) what-so-ever. Welcome to MY world.
Onward and upward.
It is best to only use NEW tires as "inside/inner tires" when converting to my combo recipes. A used tire will have low spots/uneven mileage wear which might be "felt" when used in conjunction with the multi-tire setup. Been There.. Done That.. No Fun..
By the way, no matter which 3-tire combo you decide to utilize, all 3 tires can be inserted inside of each other prior to installation onto the wheel rim. That way, you are actually only “mounting” a single tire. Also, the inner tube can be partially inflated and then inserted inside those tires prior to mounting the whole she-bang onto the rim -- just be sure that the valve stem is aligned with the hole in the rim. And, you really need for both “inner” tires to be a city/slick tread tire pattern, NOT knobbie tires. The more solid rubber, the better. The forces generated inside the multi-tire casings will peel the knobbie tires' tits right off. Small lumps/bumps everywhere along the outside tires' sidewalls. So, DON'T do it. Been there, done that..
Whenever I work on my wheels/tires, I use a deep plastic Tote storage bin to rest the wheel on. You can also use a dresser drawer. Just be sure to put a towel/blanket over the drawer to protect it.
So, that being said, here are the recipes that I do use/have used:
Since every fat tire ebike comes equipped with 4” knobbie tires (usually Kenda (brand) Juggernaut (model), I will start with that 3-tire combo:
Tire #1 (the outside tire)FYI: My 2018 Kush came equipped with 4” Kenda Juggernaut knobby tires: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kenda-Jug...Black/51743681
Tire #2 (the middle tire) Sunlite Baja Bike Tire 3.5” Black https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunlite-Baja-Bike-Tire-26X3-5-Black-Wire-/273665280209?
or, this site with multiple options: https://www.modernbike.com/3.5-inch-wide-26-inch-tires
[[UpDate on March 13, 2020:] I was recently dinking around with my various combo tire setups and have discovered that the DURO 3" inner tube (or any other 3"er) works awesomely with any of the recipes that also state to use the 2.3"-2.7" inner tubes. The advantage of the 3" inner tube is that it provides more sidewall "fill-in" when compared to the other inner tube. Yes, you'd think that the Kenda Kiniption 2.3" tire (mentioned below AND is awesome, by the way) would be too small, but such is not the case. By the way, prior to today (3/13/20) I had never experimented with the 3" inner tube scenario because I already had the 2.3"-2.7" tubes AND I just figured that the 3"er would be too bulbous. But, not the case after all. I am quite pleased with how it "seats" with the multi-tire combo's..
Also, my rear DURO BeachBum tire (blue in color), with 3,600 miles, started showing bare thread (indicating excess tire wear and time for a new tire. My 1st thought, ingrained from 35+ years of riding OldSchool mountain bikes, was "time for a new tire (to avoid a flat tire)". My 2nd thought was to rotate the front and rear tires because, especially with a super heavy rear hub (25+ pounds), the front tire will outlast the rear tire by thousands of miles. My 3rd (and final) thought was to just keep on keeping on to see how much longer the "thread showing" rear tire would continue to be rideable. So, that is what I'm doing now. After all, I still have 2 tires underneath/inside of that DURO 3" outer tire. I'm starting to get more "wear through" thread patches, and even out-and-out holes in the center tread. But, I DON'T CARE... I shall see how much longer I can stand it until I replace the solid blue (now non-existent) DURO tires with solid black DURO BeachBum 3" tires. As for the two "inside" tires: they should last for forever and a day.. ]]
Now for my favorite.. I absolutely swear by this particular tire/inner tube set-up. It's what I have installed in both of my M2S Fat Tire ebikes..:
The 3”/2.5”/2.3” tire combo. The Tire#1 tires last for a very long time--5,000+ miles has been my own experience (with many more miles still available). Plus, they are absolutely QUIET-- no knobbie tire “buzz”.. Nice..
Tire #1: (the outside tire) Duro Beach Bum/SOUL 3” city/slick tires. While this particular style ("low profile") is NOT useful as an inside tire, it is an OUTSTANDING "outside" tire-- my favorite by far.: https://www.amazon.com/Duro-California-Bicycles-Beach-Cruiser/dp/B076PX5FJV/ref=sr_1_22_sspa?crid=LU67G23FAEQ5&keywords=beach+cruiser+tires&qid=1583017384&sprefix=beach+cr%3Buiser+tires%2Caps%2C254&sr=8-22- or here: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Tire #2: (the middle tire) Maxxis HookWorm 2.5” tire: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Maxxi...item3d6bbf3146 or Sunlite 2.5” tire (this tire is a less expensive 2.5” option): (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Tire #3 (the inner tire) Kenda Kiniption 2.3” tire: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Inner tube:Maxxis 2.3”-2.7” heavyduty inner tubes: https://www.walmart.com/ip/LOT-OF-3-Kenda-Downhill-26-x-2-3-2-75-2-25mm-Schrader-Valve-Bike-Inner-Tubes-NEW/649278540
Again, use of a 3" inner tube with this combo works just fine, too-- more sidewall "fill-in"..https://www.amazon.com/Lowrider-Standard-American-Valve-Tubes/dp/B07DN57NVM/ref=sr_1_36?dchild=1&keywords=26%22x3%22+inner+tube+for+bike&qid=1584133017&sr=8-36
And there you have it for various 3-tire combo recipes.
Now for some Nice To Have extra's:
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-sensor-bottom-bracket-price-is-200-00.40097/
As of today, Jan 5th, it is a work-in-progress. It should make current M2S ebike owners really appreciate their very correct ebike purchase. I also realize that many potential ebike buyers cruise these forums as an aid in their search for the ideal ebike at the most practical price. They also need to be made aware of “brand service after the sale”, or lack/deception thereof. After all, an ebike purchase of $1,500+ is no small investment. You be the judge.)
ADDENDUM on Oct 30, 2020:
The 2018 KUSH now has 14,800 total miles. At mile 2,500 I commenced the multi-tire combo experiment, so that means 12,300 miles of multi-tire usage for the KUSH. The 2019 R750 hardtail (aka WhiteyFord-- r.i.p. Whitey) now has 6,600 total miles, every one of which is while utilizing the multi-tire combo formula. That is a total of 18,900 (and counting) absolutely trouble-free flat-free riding miles. Ya can't beat that with a stick..
Recently I became aware of, and purchased, the 20”-24”-26”x1.75”-2.35” version of this 3XL ebike-specific MrTuffy tire liner:https://www.amazon.sg/Tuffy-Electric-Tire-Liner-Protector/dp/B07HXXVJKL [UPDATE: Be sure to read the customer reviews on this Amazon website.. They might just prove to be a game changer.] If you read the remainder of this post, you will be made aware of my “experience” with the original (not labeled as EBIKE) MrTuffy 3XL tire liners. I bought an ebike version because I have another project in progress AND because I was curious via what “glue” MrTuffy was using (apparently, it is an epoxy compound) because lordy knows I tried a bunch of different adhesion options.
Anyway, I wanted you to be made aware of this new MrTuffy option.
Since tires have a finite life due to tire wear, I am curious in regards to these liners being transferable to the new tire. Also, what adhesive will be used?
If I were to use these liners on a rear hub fat tire ebike, I would put 2 on that 25 pound rear tire. Even then, you are only getting bottom tread area protection, not complete sidewall protection, too (my multi-tire combo's provide that complete sidewall coverage).
ADDENDUM on Jan 10, 2020: Since I now have numerous threads posted (sorry about that), I want to let viewers know their chronological sequence, thus every thread title will begin with (# )
ADDENDUM on June 13, 2020:
Item 1: https://tannusamerica.com/pages/tannus-armour Finally, an insert for Fat Tire ebikes..
Item 2: Some Fat Tire rims are 80mm (3" wide)-- Some are 100mm (4" wide). Just take a ruler and measure across the rim spoke area/face. M2S rims are 80mm/3".. Bolton ebikes use a 100mm/4" rim width.
Item 3: Some really neat low profile tires: https://boltonebikes.com/collections/accessories/products/fat-bike-low-profile-street-tire I bought a pair because my fat tire rims are 80mm/3" wide. I haven't mounted them as of yet, but, then again, the days not over.. Also, check out their website-- some really nice ebikes..
Addendum on Feb 12, 2020:
In regards to my 3-tire combo recipe(s), I get occasional input from riders wondering why not just use a “tubeless tire” configuration instead. When I first began my journey to eliminate the Fat Tire Flat Tire monster, I definitely investigated that option. However, due to the following items (as determined back in Summer of 2018), I decided to (eventually) go with my recipe instead:
a) a special “tubeless rated” tire must be used. In the Fat Tire genre, it is not unheard of for these tires to cost $100.00 each.
b). Your current rim may, or may not, be compatible with a tubeless setup. Only one way to find out.
c). a special type of rim tape is needed. A certain width is required.
d). A special stand-alone air valve is required.
e). liquid goop has to be injected into the tire.
f). a “rapid fill” air input method is required to properly “seat” the tire bead and the rim. If not successful, a repeat performance is required until the “seat” does take. I assume that some of the goop will escape and entail a sloppy mess.
g). the goop must be replenished every month or so.
h). getting a flat tire may require installing a regular inner tube. This also means that the special stand-alone valve must be removed. Figure in the need to still carry a complete flat tire fix-it kit: wrench/ spare 4” inner tube (quite heavy)/ tire levers/ patch kit (ya never know)/ 16 ounce CO2 cartridges (4 at a minimum for fat tire bikes)/ air inflater or mini-pump.. They all add up to extra weight always having to be carried along for “just in case”.
I do alot of winter riding in sub-freezing temperatures-- departing when 7 degrees outside and returning after a four hour ride with the temperature being 22 degrees. How do such temps affect the liquid goop inside the tire (and which is needed to insure a continued tight tire bead/rim seal) Will a sudden impact “break” the goop seal, thus leading to a flat tire?
I have also noticed that most of the advocates for the tubeless tire setup option do not actually own a fat tire ebike with a rear hub motor. This rear wheel/tire setup, in stock form, weighs in at 25 pounds-- an entire “old school” bike, even a dual-suspension mountain bike, can weigh less than that (25 pounds). So when you are dealing with a beast (which these 750w fat tire ebikes certainly are), you are also dealing with a real porker-- 60+ pounds for the entire ebike is the norm. All the weight that the rear wheel must contend with cannot be overlooked. I know that a mid-drive powered ebike has a (basically) stock rear wheel setup (exactly like an old school bicycle). Thus, the extra weight has been re-located to the front crankset/bottom bracket area and is a non-facter when dealing with a rear tire flat and needing to remove the entire wheel.
So, after considering all of the above information I decided to just continue onward in my pursuit of an alternative “fix”. It took some doing AND luck, but I finally did it. The following 3-Tire Combo Recipe is the result. And, after 10,000+ miles (thus far) of flat-free riding, I have felt very comfortable in posting this information for any/all owners of any brand of Fat Tire ebike which uses a rear hub motor setup. After all, once you have had to deal with the removal/re-installation of the very heavy rear wheel, you will not want to have to tackle it again for a long, long time-- and especially not while out on a ride..
As far as tires used in my recipe just adhere to the following ..Also, ANY tire brand can be used.:
a). you can use 2 tires or 3 tires, or even more if you want to (but why). The “outer tire” can be whatever you want it to be: knobbie/studded for ice and snow/ dual purpose/ city tread/ slick tire. However, for the “inner tire(s)” you must use a tire with maximum rubber (city slick,etc.) and NO KNOBBIES-- those knobs will be ripped off due to all the stress/torque taking place. You will have little “lumps” everywhere.. Been there, done that.. As for tire sizing: do NOT exceed ½ inch difference between EACH tire (4”,, 3.5”,, 3”.. but never 4”,, 3”,, 2”(too much “dead air” space)..
I even still use SLIME in my tubes because ya just never know, but I only inject 2 ounces instead of the usual 4 ounces. Besides, I have the 1 gallon super-size SLIME container.. Gotta use it up some way.
So, as I stated above, this “recipe” formula is for use with ANY Fat Tire ebike.
Try it, you'll like it.. ]]
[ ADDED on Feb 7, 2020:
As for how I came upon my 3 tire combo recipes: I literally stumbled onto the idea. When my 2018 Kush arrived, I decided to keep the shipping box for "just in case". The box proved to be excellent storage for my numerous tires (I own 6 bikes). One day I was searching for a certain tire. I pulled every tire out of that box and the tire in question was nowhere to be found. So, as I was returning each tire back into the box, I paid closer attention. Sure enough, it was a tire-in-a-tire. They fit like gloves and the weight gain was so minuscule that I hadn't even noticed when removing the culprits. That is when I had my Einstein Moment. Then I thought : if 2 tires is workable, 3 tires would be Da Bomb. After all, with those huge 3+" rims, anything is possible/practical. So, there you have it.
An added bonus when using 3 tires is that you have 3 sidewalls supporting your outer tire instead of just one. That makes using lower air pressure much more viable. I have reduced my pressure down as low as 10 pounds and everything felt just fine and dandy. Also, I still use SLIME-- just not very much-- 2 ounces per inner tube maximum.
If you're considering using only 2 tires instead of 3, then go for it.. Either it works OR it doesn't.. Plan "A".. Plan "B".. An additional thought: Go to your local bicycle shop (lbs) and experiment with their supply of tires to get a feel for what you are (potentially) dealing with. Just be sure to let them know what you are up to-- otherwise, they might think you are trying to pull a fast one on them.
Also, I see occasional concerns regarding "rotational mass", due to the added weight of my multiple tire configurations, possibly slowing down/ incumbering the performance of these 750 watt (1 horsepower) beasts.. Forget about it.. I always refer to my 2 Fat Tire ebikes as "beasts". They are also, due to their 60+ pound weight, "pigs", "whales", "hippos", "elephants", etc. The best thing you can do for your Fat Tire ebike is to swap out those bulbous 4" knobbie tires for 3"low profile beach bum/city slick tires.. The performance/acceleration increase is very dramatic indeed. However, even with the 4" tires, I have no complaints about acceleration, etc. After all, I have the capability of comparing the two different tire sizes immediately since the 2018 KUSH has 4 " knobbies and Whitey Ford has 3" beach bum city slicks. ]
This post now has 1,000 “views” and, upon reviewing it, I feel the need for an update to, and tiding up of, same. So, here goes. ADDENDUMS were added on Jan 4th and on Jan 5th..
(Jan.5, 2020 ADDENDUM):I keep forgetting to include the following 2 European websites to this thread. They both have awesome selections of city/street/slick Fat Tires:
https://classic-cycle.com/wheel-and-tire/tires-tubes-parts/tires/26-inch-tire/ and
http://store.ruff-cycles.com/ruff-cycles-bicycle-parts/wheels-tires/tires.html
Prices are very decent and delivery cost/delivery time are both excellent.
Also, remember that the inner tire(s) will never be visible so it/they can be any color (black/brown/white/ white or red or orange gangsta sidewalls, etc. Just some food for thought.
I am seeing ebikes of every style out and about on the local bike paths. More every weekend. The 2019 Christmas holiday season is upon us. Ebikes are being sold at really awesome price discounts and are therefore, selling at a fantastic pace. Thus, there are going to be a HUGE volume of sales as a result. A large percentage of those ebike sales will be for Fat Tire ebikes. Lets face it: people REALLY like those BIG FAT tires. What they WON'T like is dealing with FLAT tires..
It is now Nov 17,2019. Way back on Feb 6, 2019, when I originally posted this thread, my 2018 KUSH dual suspension, 750 watt rear hub, fat tire ebike, had 4,200 miles on the odometer. It had been outfitted with the marvelous 3-tire Combo recipe at mile #2,500. It is now Nov. 17, 2019 and the wonderful mighty beast currently shows 10,004 miles. Additionally, on May 31, 2019, a white 2019 M2S(brand) R750(model) (750watt rear hub) hardtail (front suspension only) ebike arrived at my front door. It now has a total of 2,238 miles on its' odometer. This newest toy had the 3-tire combo installed on it before ever leaving my living room.
So, with a total of nearly 10,000 miles of 3-tire combo set-up(both ebikes combined) behind me, I feel pretty much qualified to state that the 3-tire combo set-up is a success. Do you know how often, whenever you get into your car/van/truck/suv, one thing that crosses your mind is “Gee, I wonder if I'm gonna get a flat tire today”.?? The answer: NEVER.. Well, with my unique formula, you can transfer that same mindset (or absence thereof) over to your fat tire ebike. I swear to god, the ONLY time that I ever even form a thought about a “flat tire” is when I see another bike rider dealing with the malady.
I go out for a 50-60 mile bike ride every day (weather permitting). In doing so, I do NOT want a mechanical/flat tire issue to arise. I ride to ride.. Not to Stop and Repair.. Anything that I can do to negate a distraction from The Ride is a godsend. That being the case, I eventually came up with the 3-tire Combo formula. And it works so dang perfectly that you have to actually install it to really appreciate it.Imagine having no spare inner tube, tire/CO2 pump, 16ounce CO2 cartridges, tire levers, or patch kit in your possession whenever you go out for a bike ride. You just go out for a bike ride and actually do that bike ride with NO distractions (bike-wise) what-so-ever. Welcome to MY world.
Onward and upward.
It is best to only use NEW tires as "inside/inner tires" when converting to my combo recipes. A used tire will have low spots/uneven mileage wear which might be "felt" when used in conjunction with the multi-tire setup. Been There.. Done That.. No Fun..
By the way, no matter which 3-tire combo you decide to utilize, all 3 tires can be inserted inside of each other prior to installation onto the wheel rim. That way, you are actually only “mounting” a single tire. Also, the inner tube can be partially inflated and then inserted inside those tires prior to mounting the whole she-bang onto the rim -- just be sure that the valve stem is aligned with the hole in the rim. And, you really need for both “inner” tires to be a city/slick tread tire pattern, NOT knobbie tires. The more solid rubber, the better. The forces generated inside the multi-tire casings will peel the knobbie tires' tits right off. Small lumps/bumps everywhere along the outside tires' sidewalls. So, DON'T do it. Been there, done that..
Whenever I work on my wheels/tires, I use a deep plastic Tote storage bin to rest the wheel on. You can also use a dresser drawer. Just be sure to put a towel/blanket over the drawer to protect it.
So, that being said, here are the recipes that I do use/have used:
Since every fat tire ebike comes equipped with 4” knobbie tires (usually Kenda (brand) Juggernaut (model), I will start with that 3-tire combo:
Tire #1 (the outside tire)FYI: My 2018 Kush came equipped with 4” Kenda Juggernaut knobby tires: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kenda-Jug...Black/51743681
Tire #2 (the middle tire) Sunlite Baja Bike Tire 3.5” Black https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunlite-Baja-Bike-Tire-26X3-5-Black-Wire-/273665280209?
or, this site with multiple options: https://www.modernbike.com/3.5-inch-wide-26-inch-tires
- Tire #3: or, this site with multiple options
the inner tire) 3” city/slick tires -- but NOT "low profile" tires (ie. DURO Beach Bum/Soul brand tires). Instead of DURO, use a 3" tire that is "bulbous", such as: http://store.ruff-cycles.com/ruff-cycles-bicycle-parts/wheels-tires/tires.html .. Every 3" tire shown on this particular website is the style to use--bulbous. More on this farther down this thread at "March 5, 2020 UpDate" - Inner Tube: You will need a 3” size inner tube. So, there you have it: only two/four tires need to be purchased.
Additionally: those 4” knobbie tires do not last very long (1,500 miles) until the center tire knobs disappear. That, in itself, is not really a bad thing: you will have a “slick” tread tire along the center and still have knobbies along the tires outer edges -- the best of both worlds. Plus, you will still have 2 more complete tires underneath that outside 4” knobbie tire.
Now, if you prefer to have a 3.5”/3”/2.5” three tire combo:
Tire #1: (the outside tire) Sunlite Baja Bike Tire 3.5” Black https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunlite-Baja-Bike-Tire-26X3-5-Black-Wire-/273665280209? or, this site with multiple options:https://www.modernbike.com/3.5-inch-wide-26-inch-tires
Tire #2: (the middle tire) any brand of bulbous (roundish) 3” city/slick tires:http: http://store.ruff-cycles.com/ruff-cycles-bicycle-parts/wheels-tires/tires.html . - Tire #3: (the inner tire) Maxxis HookWorm 2.5” tire: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Maxxi...item3d6bbf3146
[[UpDate on March 13, 2020:] I was recently dinking around with my various combo tire setups and have discovered that the DURO 3" inner tube (or any other 3"er) works awesomely with any of the recipes that also state to use the 2.3"-2.7" inner tubes. The advantage of the 3" inner tube is that it provides more sidewall "fill-in" when compared to the other inner tube. Yes, you'd think that the Kenda Kiniption 2.3" tire (mentioned below AND is awesome, by the way) would be too small, but such is not the case. By the way, prior to today (3/13/20) I had never experimented with the 3" inner tube scenario because I already had the 2.3"-2.7" tubes AND I just figured that the 3"er would be too bulbous. But, not the case after all. I am quite pleased with how it "seats" with the multi-tire combo's..
Also, my rear DURO BeachBum tire (blue in color), with 3,600 miles, started showing bare thread (indicating excess tire wear and time for a new tire. My 1st thought, ingrained from 35+ years of riding OldSchool mountain bikes, was "time for a new tire (to avoid a flat tire)". My 2nd thought was to rotate the front and rear tires because, especially with a super heavy rear hub (25+ pounds), the front tire will outlast the rear tire by thousands of miles. My 3rd (and final) thought was to just keep on keeping on to see how much longer the "thread showing" rear tire would continue to be rideable. So, that is what I'm doing now. After all, I still have 2 tires underneath/inside of that DURO 3" outer tire. I'm starting to get more "wear through" thread patches, and even out-and-out holes in the center tread. But, I DON'T CARE... I shall see how much longer I can stand it until I replace the solid blue (now non-existent) DURO tires with solid black DURO BeachBum 3" tires. As for the two "inside" tires: they should last for forever and a day.. ]]
Now for my favorite.. I absolutely swear by this particular tire/inner tube set-up. It's what I have installed in both of my M2S Fat Tire ebikes..:
The 3”/2.5”/2.3” tire combo. The Tire#1 tires last for a very long time--5,000+ miles has been my own experience (with many more miles still available). Plus, they are absolutely QUIET-- no knobbie tire “buzz”.. Nice..
Tire #1: (the outside tire) Duro Beach Bum/SOUL 3” city/slick tires. While this particular style ("low profile") is NOT useful as an inside tire, it is an OUTSTANDING "outside" tire-- my favorite by far.: https://www.amazon.com/Duro-California-Bicycles-Beach-Cruiser/dp/B076PX5FJV/ref=sr_1_22_sspa?crid=LU67G23FAEQ5&keywords=beach+cruiser+tires&qid=1583017384&sprefix=beach+cr%3Buiser+tires%2Caps%2C254&sr=8-22- or here: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Tire #2: (the middle tire) Maxxis HookWorm 2.5” tire: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Maxxi...item3d6bbf3146 or Sunlite 2.5” tire (this tire is a less expensive 2.5” option): (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Tire #3 (the inner tire) Kenda Kiniption 2.3” tire: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Inner tube:Maxxis 2.3”-2.7” heavyduty inner tubes: https://www.walmart.com/ip/LOT-OF-3-Kenda-Downhill-26-x-2-3-2-75-2-25mm-Schrader-Valve-Bike-Inner-Tubes-NEW/649278540
Again, use of a 3" inner tube with this combo works just fine, too-- more sidewall "fill-in"..https://www.amazon.com/Lowrider-Standard-American-Valve-Tubes/dp/B07DN57NVM/ref=sr_1_36?dchild=1&keywords=26%22x3%22+inner+tube+for+bike&qid=1584133017&sr=8-36
And there you have it for various 3-tire combo recipes.
Now for some Nice To Have extra's:
- Motorcyle tire levers (spoon-type): https://www.amazon.com/Spoon-Lever-Motorcycle-Change-Three/dp/B01DK2VOS6/ref
Regular plastic/nylon or aluminum tire levers do not stand a chance with the wide Fat Tire rims. Another option is to use some flat blade screwdrivers with at least a 6” length shaft.
Screw-in Studs for assembling a do-it-yourself ice/snow studded tire: https://www.denniskirk.com/kold-kutt...prd/080913.sku
Slime tire goop: Buy it at department store/auto parts stores.
Also, if you are gonna be dinking around with your rims, you may as well personalize those big rim holes (which usually have red inserts) with one of these patterns: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N2ATAPQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. If you use these halographic style items (I have 3 different flavors--so far), they have a protective backing on the sticky side of the tape that does NOT need to be removed during the rim installation process. I have entire rim strip/Gorilla heavy duty SuperWide (2.88" wide tape rim protector strips hanging in a closet. They can be re-used whenever.
YouTube has some excellent “how to install” demonstrations. Easy as pie. Just use the awesome 2.88” wide Heavy Duty Gorilla brand duct tape as the rim protector over the patterned duct tape. Do two wraps.
ADDENDUM ADDED on Jan 4, 2020:
Now for an added bonus:
For some reason, when I initially set up the new 2019 WhiteyFord white frame bike in the summer of 2019, I decided to give the MrTuffy 3xl ($40+) tire liners ONE MORE chance;MrTuffy 3xl tire liners: https://www.amazon.com/Fat-Bike-Tire-Tube-Protectors/dp/B00U0FP8ZW/ref=pd_day0_hl_468_3/141-7381249-4465446?
So, here is how the installation sequence went:
26”x3” blue Duro beach cruiser tire..
MrTuffy 3xl tire liner..
26”x2.5” tire..
2.3”- 2.7” inner tube..
Well, for the first 399 miles, everything seemed just fine and dandy. Then, at mile 400, I looked down and noticed a frigging lump the size of a sliced-in-half golf ball protruding from the sidewall of the rear tire. It was just small enough so as to not rub on the frame (and quickly destroy the tires sidewall). That damn tire liner had worked its way around to the sidewall despite the fact that it was literally sandwiched between a 3” tire and a 2.5” tire with 17+ psi in the inner tube..
I did an emergency removal of the Tuffy and, in its place, went with the same tried and true formula as the KUSH bike: 3” tire,, 2.5” tire,, 2.3” tire,, and then 2.3-2.7” inner tube.
So, did I finally learn my lesson?? Maybe.. Maybe not.. Stay tuned.
[[ Due to the fact that I now own 2 M2S fat tire ebikes, but am not a fan of the 4” knobbie tires originally installed on them (I prefer the 3” Duro Beach Bum city tread-type tires for my many forays out and about), I have the luxury of extra tires laying around just begging to be abused. So be it.
I formed a thought in my peanut head to go ahead and give those damn MrTuffy 3XL tire liners ONE more chance. It will soon be winter and that means lots of snow. I have taken the tire liners and installed them onto the 4” knobbie tires via the following formula:
I have some 1.5” long small diameter nails (kinda like wall paneling nails) with small heads. I took 10 of these nails (for each tire) and, using a set of vise grips, pressed them thru the MrTuffys and THEN pressed them through the 4” knobbie tire from the inside, being sure that the nail was centered on the tread. I then used some FlexGlue (yes, the stuff you see on tv) and ran a bead all the way around the tire by bending the MrTuffy enough to allow the glue spout to run on the center of the tire. After doing that, I went around the outside of the tire and pulled the nails taunt. I then installed the 3.5” tire https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126231468?gclid=CjwKCAjwqZPrBRBnEiwAmNJsNrBl56bT6pXzfk7hUUXI1ElZ-cgdkAB3ZxppebJ-XvIynT3lQDAjNRoCY9gQAvD_BwE (by the way, this particular Activ8 3.5" tire is actually more like a 3.8" tire-- a very tight fit(a good thing) inside the 4" Kenda Juggernaut tire) inside the 4” tire/MrTuffy 3XL liner. This was done mostly to protect the 4” inner tube from possible puncture from an errant nail head. Gorilla brand HeavyDuty duct tape cut into 1” squares and then pressed onto/over the nail head works good, too, in lieu of the 3.5” tire. I then inflated the inner tube as full as I dare.
I left the whole shebang to cure (the FlexGlue) for 48 hours. At that time I deflated, and removed, the inner tube and pulled the 3.5” tire to the center far enough to gain access to each nail from the inside. Next, I grabbed the vise grips and pushed each nail back into the tire interior far enough to get a grip on the nail head. Out it came (the nail). When all of the nails had been removed, I re-positioned the 3.5” tire, re-installed the inner tube, inflated it up ALOT, and have left everything as is (to cure REAL GOOD) while I await the snow, at which time I will mount the experiment (4”tire/tire liner/3.5” tire) onto the dual suspension KUSH wheel/rim and see what the hell the MrTuffy will end up doing this time. Last chance for it either way.. Oh, by the way, performing the aforementioned ritual will become an ongoing crucifixion (kinda sorta) as you continuously forget about the protruding nails as you grab the perimeter of the tire, thus impaling your palms many times.
By the way, I am currently (as of Jan 4, 2020) actually riding this 4"/Mr Tuffy tire liner/3.5" tire combo on my 2018 KUSH. I installed the combo at mileage 10,240.. Bike is now at mileage 10,621 and everything seems to be fine and dandy at 20 degree temps. I am curious as to whether the FlexGlue will remain bonded in this cold weather. If some malady does show its ugly head in the meantime, then I will post another ADDENDUM here.
[ ADDENDUM Feb 7, 2020: I now have 11,167 miles on the 2018 KUSH and that means this 4"tire/MrTuffy with FlexGlue/3.5" tire with 4" inner tube combo has been ridden on for 927 miles. I have not had a single problem as of yet, and I don't expect to see any arise in the near future. Some of my rides have been 40+ milers in temp's being 7 degrees at the start and 25 degrees 4+ hours later. By the way, the center tread on the rear wheel outside 4" knobbie tire is just about invisible (due to wear).
However, since the other two items are underneath it, I see no concern about getting flat tire.
But, boy are the rest of the knobbies good-to-go for many more miles. I hear "quiet" on the straight ahead riding and then tire buzz only whenever I lean into a turn.. The best of both worlds. Works awesomely in the snow, too..I assume that pretty much every ebike Fat Tire rider has the 4" knobbie/ MrTuffy tire liner installed. I also assume that when the center section of tread on the 4" knobbie goes bye-bye that you purchase a new 4"er. Now, maybe you will just buy a (much less expensive) 3.5" city tire insteadAs for monitoring the inner goings-on of your multi-tire setup: just keep an eye on the valve stem. If it is staying straight up, then things are okey dokie. Otherwise, just deflate the inner tube and re-straighten the valve. The only time I have had this occur with any of my many 3-tire configurations is when I'm dealing with the slippery slope world of snow/ice ( like I dealt with yesterday on my 38 mile fun ride). Those 750watt rear hub motors produce ALOT of torque-- enough for me to bust my ass twice when within the last 1/2 mile of that particular ride thanks to ice hiding beneath the new fallen 6" of snow. Oww.. Thank You, may I have another!?! That darn snow sure is cold-- but, it sure tastes good. I intend to keep this multi-tire setup in use thru May, or even later, just to see how many miles I can squeeze out of it.
https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126231468?gclid=CjwKCAjwqZPrBRBnEiwAmNJsNrBl56bT6pXzfk7hUUXI1ElZ-cgdkAB3ZxppebJ-XvIynT3lQDAjNRoCY9gQAvD_BwE or try this page https://www.modernbike.com/3.5-inch-wide-26-inch-tires
and insert it inside the other two items (4" tire/MrTuffy).
I will then revert back to my 3" tire (crème colored) combo.
[[ ADDENDUM on Feb. 25, 2020:
The 2018 Kush now has 11,500 miles. The aforementioned MrTuffy experiment began at mile 10,240 (for a distance of 1,260 miles). I had originally planned to keep this combo installed throughout the winter riding season. However, since snow/ice may be a factor to deal with for as many as 4 more months, I have decided to swap out the (now slick) 4”tire/Mr Tuffy3XL liner/3.5”tire for a 4”knobbie tread/3.5”city tread/ 3”DURO BeachBum/Soul tire combo-- (NOT recommended as of March 5, 2020. Read on). The original 4” Juggernaut knobbie tire was slick along the top center tire tread, which was awesome for normal riding conditions, but not so great for winter riding. Plus, I have been curious as to how the Mr. Tuffy liner was behaving.
When I removed the rear wheel/tires, I was surprised to see that the Mr. Tuffy strip to be top-center (where it should be 100% of the time) for only 40% of the circumference of the 2 tires that it was sandwiched between. The remaining 60% was pretty evenly divided between well left or well right of center and creeping farther down the respective sidewall. Time would have moved more and more liner over to the sidewall area. As for the FlexGlue angle: it was not effective at all-- no sign of continued adhesion between the 4”er and the Mr.Tuffy liner.
Based on those observations, my recommendation is to forego the $50 Mr.Tuffy option and, instead, spend an additional $20 and buy a pair of 3.5” city slick tread tires and use them, and their complete sidewall coverage/no slippage advantage. The extra weight is minimal and, if it does need to be factored in, just cut away the wire bead of that 3.5” tire. You don't even have to cut thru the wire itself; just use a cheap steak knife (with serrated edge) to cut out along the wire/edge of tire. You will be left with some wire hoops AND a completely ruined 3.5” tire. However, you will be left with an excellent flat tire deterrent. So, retain the wire bead and re-use the complete 3.5” tire another day OR destroy a tire and save a pound or two of overall tire weight on your 60+ pound ebike beast.
You don't even need to go the “3 tire combo” route-- just use the 3.5”er tire in place of a MrTuffy (highly recommended).
By the way, I weighed the entire (newly installed on Feb 24, 2020) 4”/3.5”/3” tire combo,/rear wheelset and it weighs 25.1 pounds. That, in and of itself may seem to be quite a bit of weight. However, you need to consider that there are many “cargo” ebikes on the market using the 750w rear hub configuration. Then you see how much the cargo ebike itself weighs, and THEN you factor in its overall carrying/weight capacity. Suddenly a 25 pound rear wheel is not so “heavy” after all. You won't be able to “lay rubber”, but a FatTire ebike is not about instant acceleration, it is more about being stylin'-- just like a pickup truck/SUV with oversize off-road tires mounted. Everything is a trade-off.
My final overall appraisal of the Mr Tuffy tire liner is that, while being an excellent supplement to a “regular tire setup, it fails as a dependable FatTire mate. Go with an additional tire instead. ] - [[ March 5, 2020 ADDENDUM ]] Since my 4" outside knobbie tires are bald, and since snow/ice can still be expected for the next 3 months, and since I have some brand spanking new Kenda Juggernaut 4" tires just setting around, I decided to do a tire set swap. The aforementioned combo of 4"//3.5"//3" DURO BeachBum/SOUL tires proved to NOT be a good combo after all.. The 3" DURO tire has a low profile that allows excess air space between it and the bulbous 3.5" inside tire. This results in a bumpiness that becomes more severe the faster you go. Bad Karma, fer sure.
So, after I returned back home, I went to Plan"b": completely remove the 3" DURO tire and only use a 2-tire combo (4" outside/3.5" inside tire). I am very happy so far with this 2 tire setup and will continue to use it until/unless I get a flat tire. Should that happen, I will install the 3" crème colored Ruff Cycles bulbous tire currently being used as the outside tire on my 3"//2.5"//2.3" summer tire combo. By the way, I ride basically the same multiple routes year round so, if a flat tire does occur, I will have to attribute it to 2 tires ,instead of 3 tires, being used. Either way, I will keep you folks posted. Current mileage on the KUSH is 11,600. Also, if you have Mr.Tuffy tire liners to use, just insert them inside the inside tire (between the tire and the inner tube-- just like normal). That way, they will be very easy to remove if they do decide to "slide" down the sidewall.
[[ UPDATE on APRIL 28, 2020: The KUSH now has 12,800 miles, so the 2-tire (4"/3.5") winter combo has been ridden for 1,200 miles. I have just swapped out that winter tire combo setup for the crème/beige color summer tire combo (3"/2.5"/2.3"). In regards to the experiment of just using 2 tires: it was an unqualified success. Try it, you'll like it. If you do, by chance , still get flat tires, then try the 3 tire setup. Another option: 2 tires on the front wheel/ 3 tires on the super heavy (25+ pounds) rear wheel. The ONLY downside I have found with those 4" Kenda knobbies is that they (on the rear hub rear wheel) sure do wear down to center "slick" very rapidly. But, just rotate rear-to-front, etc as need be and you should be able to get around 3,000 miles per pair of tires.]]
I hope that you were able to glean at least one small bit of useful information from this kinda long on-going posting.
Well, that should do it for the re-write/post.. Happy Holidays..
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