What kind of range do you get on one charge?

[Steve Miller]

My first concern was that I had an issue with the bike. In fact we did discover a dragging rear brake tonight. I agree that if I can make it to work then I will likely do it with speed and comfort. But alas I am an engineer.... If something is not making sense I need to understand. Then I can relax.

 

[Steve Miller]

OK much better. 15.5 mi, left with 60% charge. Much closer to 20w/mi estimate. I think the pad drag was the key. It was not enough to initially notice due to the weight of the bike. But now it coasts for 150 feet easily. I dialed down to eco50 and kept my speed around 22. No headwind, tires at 80 psi.

 

[Volusia25]

Do you think 50 miles on a MTB with a 13ah 36v battery is unrealistic? Im 170lb and fairly fit.
Thanks

 

[Solom01]

Depending on your exact bike, terrain and how much you're pedaling it may work, but it's doubtful. I weigh about the same as you (165lb) and am fairly fit. I don't know much about your bike, but I'm riding an SS-Glide bike with a 350 watt hub motor and a 10.4ah 36v battery. My battery is smaller, but I'm riding on some of the flattest terrain there is in the US (Venice, Florida) and the bike is a light single-speed road bike (40 pounds) with no suspension and Marathon Plus tires which are at a pretty high PSI (85-90) and fairly narrow so it's a very efficient bike. I always ride on pavement (this bike isn't suited to gravel or any type of off road use). I never use the throttle, keep the PAS assist at 2 (out of 3 levels) and when I ride at 13.5-16 mph (which is the most energy efficient speed on this bike) I get about 30-32 miles range without totally discharging the battery. I could get more if I kept it at level 1 but at that level the assist is so little that I would be better off riding a lighter, non electric bike. If your bike is not too heavy, if you pedal a fair amount and if the terrain is paved and flat you may be able to get 50 miles, but one thing that isn't mentioned often enough here is what you do to your battery; if you discharge it fully or close to fully, the life-span will take a huge hit. If you're willing to sacrifice battery life for ultimate range you may be able to hit 50 miles, but you should be aware of the consequences to your battery. I've been toying with the idea of buying a second battery and carrying it with me (on my bike they're not too heavy). That way I would have a spare and even when I'm going on shorter rides it would seem that by never letting the batteries go below 20% and never charging it above 80 - 90 percent their life span would be a lot longer.

 

[Volusia25]

I live in a fairly flat area so I guess it could be possible if you manage 30 miles on a 10ah battery. Its a hardtail 22kg bike with 2 inch tyres on it

 

[JRA]

Via math (ah x v ÷ miles) you would need to maintain 9.36 wh/mi which is on the lower end for sure. Solom01 is doing 11.7 wh/mi for a 32 mile run as per his example.

One thing you have to remember is that as your voltage drops wh use increases so there is not an even draw of watts throughout the charge. All other considerations as to how much you pedal, terrain, stops/starts, weather excluded.

I do agree with Solom01 that there is a point of diminishing returns for a fit rider where the weight of an e system is not worth hauling around at a certain point and I would say your system/requirement is on the cusp of that. But some systems have very little drag and will still pedal ok and not need constant power so given flattish ground you may be able to stretch it out.

 

[Volusia25]

Via math (ah x v ÷ miles) you would need to maintain 9.36 wh/mi which is on the lower end for sure. Solom01 is doing 11.7 wh/mi for a 32 mile run as per his example.

One thing you have to remember is that as your voltage drops wh use increases so there is not an even draw of watts throughout the charge. All other considerations as to how much you pedal, terrain, stops/starts, weather excluded.

I do agree with Solom01 that there is a point of diminishing returns for a fit rider where the weight of an e system is not worth hauling around at a certain point and I would say your system/requirement is on the cusp of that. But some systems have very little drag and will still pedal ok and not need constant power so given flattish ground you may be able to stretch it out.

I dont understand that equation. It seems the more miles you do, the less wh per mile is required.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

If you have a 500 watt hour battery, it means it can discharge 500 watts in one hour (or 250 watts in 2 hours or 350 watts in 1 hour 26 min). Assuming you have a 500 watt motor, then you can dial at maximum assist level of 500 watts for one hour before the battery drains out. It now all depends on what is your average speed in the span of that one hour. If you averaged 25 mph then your battery is drained after 25 miles (one hour elapsed), 28 mph=28 mile range, and so forth. I hope that makes sense.

 

[JRA]

OK, in your case you have a 36v 13ah battery so 36 x 13 = 468 which is how many watt hours your battery has. Now divide that # by 50 (miles you want to travel) and you will get 9.36 which is the wh/mi figure I mentioned. Wh/mi is the equivalent of mpg in a fuel type vehicle and used to calculate potential range. However there are many other factors involved as mentioned on this board many times and you are the only one that matters in the end which you can only find out by tracking your personal average riding in the terrain and manner which you normally do so.

 

[Volusia25]

Ah thanks makes sense. I forgot to mention its a 250w Bafang motor restricted to 15mph (UK law) with a 20A controller I believe. So this should make the range more likely correct? Since I wont be going fast and the motor cuts out if 15mph is exceeded.

 

[James Kohls]

Has anyone else tried ebikemaps.com? I've only compared a few rides, but it was pretty close to accurate each time.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Do you think 50 miles on a MTB with a 13ah 36v battery is unrealistic? Im 170lb and fairly fit.
Thanks

If you have a watt meter then you can budget your power consumption to reach 50 miles in one charge. A 36V and 13 AH would give you 468 WH, meaning it can discharge 468 watts in one hour or one fourth (468/4 = 117 watts) in 4 hours. If you maintain the assist level at roughly 117 watts and ride it for 4 hours at the average speed of 12-13 mph then you consume 468 WH after 50 miles.

Or you can maintain at 15 mph with the power assist of 140 watts (power meter needed) for 3 hours 20 minutes and that would reach 50 miles before the battery is drained.

And that would give you an incredible 9.36 wh/m, meaning you have to do a lot of pedaling effort to achieve that since most people get between 15-20 wh/m.

 

[Volusia25]

Ok thanks. My intended route is more like 35-40 miles but i said 50 because id like the battery to have some charge left at the end. I guess I could turn off the whole system and just ride it like a normal bike for the last few miles if need be. Its mainly flat anyway

 

[Volusia25]

I can also buy a 36v 17.5ah battery for £400 in a few months when they have stock, but ill see how i get on, might not need it

 

[Teresa]

I have a Felt NinerE which is essentially a mountain bike with a 36 v Bosh system. I commonly get 35 miles on a half charge and for the most part, could get 50 miles on a battery. I typically recharge once I hit 50% of the battery being used up. The route to and from work has 500ish feet of climbing and some rolling bumps as I pass under freeways and that sort of thing. Without support, on a calm day, I can sustain 15 /16 mph so I'm a mildly fit rider. Kicker is, that's when conditions are pretty perfect without a strong headwind. There have been times where 3 miles of directly into the wind will eat 1/5 of the battery just to go 15 mph. So, you likely could make that commute and have battery left and some portion of the time, you'll get 'caught' by the weather. I ride everyday and with the Abq, NM winds - especially in the spring- I get stuck in less then ideal winds fairly often. YMMV.

 

[Larry Ganz]

I have a Trek Powerfly 7 eMtn bike with 500WH battery. My poor health will not allow me to ride long enough to fully drain the battery. The most I could draw down was 3/5 bars on the battery gauge before I could go no further.

Based on my shorter rides of 2-3 bars on the battery (and a less help from the Bosche computer estimates for how much range remains), my typical riding style on hilly pavement would net me 30-35 miles, and up to 70-75 miles on flatter less demanding terrain, at an average speed of 10-15 mph. Off-road would be closer to 25 miles.

With my oxygen tank aboard I could probably go through the full battery, if I use higher assist levels when I don't need them, but I seem to be mentally incapable of using turbo mode on flatter rides where it feels like cheating.

My best tolerated cadence (physically) is below 70 RPM without my oxygen, maybe up to 80 with my oxygen. I just can't breath at rates above that for any length of time while hunched over the handle bars. I tend to cruise at about 50-55 rpm, but below that the Bosche system doesn't like to give as much boost at low rpms.

One ride went 30 miles on fairly level ground before I'd dropped 2 out 5 bars. Another more difficult ride took 17 miles before I dropped 2 bars, with a lot of climbing cutting my range in half. The most difficult ride I've done went about 25 miles before I'd dropped 3 bars out of 5 on the gauge.

On that tough ride I got about 12-13 miles per bar on the way down (with a few climbs on the way) to an off-road single track, approx 5 miles before dropping the 2nd bar in turbo mode while off-road, and about 8 miles on the 3rd bar on the way back. (I'd used slightly more than 3 bars).

I've seen as much as 20 miles/bar on an easy 30 mile ride with an 800 foot elevation loss over the last half of the ride (after first seeing 10 miles/bar in the uphill direction and going the entire ride with it in ECO mode to test the range).

But in my hilly neighborhood with lots of ups and downs, I can get it to drop a bar every 6-8 miles with 800-1200 feet of total climbing over an 8-14 mile ride. This is with using a lot of Sport and Turbo mode, and I believe that could do the 8 mile round trip ride to the shopping center at the bottom of the hill where I live at least 4x on one charge.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Here is some data from a ride today. Distance was 9.95 miles each way. All data was collected using a Garmin Edge 1000 and Garmin Connect. At the end of each leg, data was uploaded to Strava. There was a positive elevation change of 200-250 feet on each leg.

On the outbound leg I rode with my daughter's unassisted bike using ECO50% on my Specialized base Turbo (200W nominal motor). I averaged 16.1 mph using 11% of my 691 Wh battery. This suggests a total range of around 90 miles, a consumption of 7.7 Wh/mile, and battery consumption of 124 watts/ hour. Strava estimated I was averaging 137 W power output (me and the bike). Average heart rate was 91 bpm with a max of 116 bpm. Average cadence was 74 rpm. At this speed and heart rate, I felt like I could ride all day.

On the return leg, I rode by myself in full TURBO mode as fast as I practically could. I averaged 21.1 mph using 23% of the battery. This suggests a total range of around 43 miles and a consumption of 16 Wh/mile and a motor consumption of 338 watts/hour. Strava estimated I was averaging 271 W average power output. Average heart rate was 118 bpm with a max of 132 bpm. Average cadence was 84 rpm. Note that due to an MI in 2000, I take beta blockers, so the average and peak heart rates in this regime are flirting with my aerobic/anerobic threshold. I doubt I could ride at this level for the entire 40+ mile range. I would need to back off and cruise to bring heart rates down every 5-10 miles or so.

Conclusions:

1. The 200W Specialized Turbo is a pedal assist, but clearly I am working and contributing a lot of my own "watts".
2. The system is very efficient to be able to run at well under 7.7 Wh/mi at ECO50%.
3. With the large Turbo S battery, this bike has a LOT of range.
4. Unlike the Stromer ST-2 or Specialized Turbo S, even though the bike is a speed pedelec, it is not an "average 25+ mph" type of bike. I would consider the base Turbo an "average 18-20 mph" type of bike at ECO70% to full TURBO settings.
5. Motor output (nominal 200W) and motor power consumption are two different things. At full TURBO, my bike was consuming 338 Watts per hour, while it would not have averaged much over 200 W of actual power output.
6. Increasing speed from 16.1 mph to 21.1 mph increased the electrical demand per mile by a factor of 2.08 (Wh/mile) and increased battery usage per unit time by a factor 2.72 (Watts per hour).

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Here is some data from a ride today. Distance was 9.95 miles each way. All data was collected using a Garmin Edge 1000 and Garmin Connect. At the end of each leg, data was uploaded to Strava. There was a positive elevation change of 200-250 feet on each leg.

On the outbound leg I rode with my daughter's unassisted bike using ECO50% on my Specialized base Turbo (200W nominal motor). I averaged 16.1 mph using 11% of my 691 Wh battery. This suggests a total range of around 90 miles, a consumption of 7.7 Wh/mile, and battery consumption of 124 watts/ hour. Strava estimated I was averaging 137 W power output (me and the bike). Average heart rate was 91 bpm with a max of 116 bpm. Average cadence was 74 rpm. At this speed and heart rate, I felt like I could ride all day.

On the return leg, I rode by myself in full TURBO mode as fast as I practically could. I averaged 21.1 mph using 23% of the battery. This suggests a total range of around 43 miles and a consumption of 16 Wh/mile and a motor consumption of 338 watts/hour. Strava estimated I was averaging 271 W average power output. Average heart rate was 118 bpm with a max of 132 bpm. Average cadence was 84 rpm. Note that due to an MI in 2000, I take beta blockers, so the average and peak heart rates in this regime are flirting with my aerobic/anerobic threshold. I doubt I could ride at this level for the entire 40+ mile range. I would need to back off and cruise to bring heart rates down every 5-10 miles or so.

Conclusions:

1. The 200W Specialized Turbo is a pedal assist, but clearly I am working and contributing a lot of my own "watts".
2. The system is very efficient to be able to run at well under 7.7 Wh/mi at ECO50%.
3. With the large Turbo S battery, this bike has a LOT of range.
4. Unlike the Stromer ST-2 or Specialized Turbo S, even though the bike is a speed pedelec, it is not an "average 25+ mph" type of bike. I would consider the base Turbo an "average 18-20 mph" type of bike at ECO70% to full TURBO settings.
5. Motor output (nominal 200W) and motor power consumption are two different things. At full TURBO, my bike was consuming 338 Watts per hour, while it would not have averaged much over 200 W of actual power output.
6. Increasing speed from 16.1 mph to 21.1 mph increased the electrical demand per mile by a factor of 2.08 (Wh/mile) and increased battery usage per unit time by a factor 2.72 (Watts per hour).

Those are nice figures but those information are extrapolated via the bike's computer algorithm.

How about real world range from fully charged to full discharge or 1 flashing bar? How many miles does your bike goes with combined usage (both high and low PAS)?

 

[Larry Ganz]

Still helpful information, but few of us have the opportunity or desire to run the battery to empty on a long ride unless we are very fit, or have a chase car to help us get back uphill to our home, or a charger to tank back up when we have no juice left.

I'm not physically capable of doing a long ride that fully drains my Powerfly battery. On hills steep enough to require me to use turbo mode I use up about 1 bar per 5-8 miles, and after 15-18 miles of a challenging ride I'm all used up before the battery.

If I use Turbo mode on flat ground so that I don't have to put in much effort to move, when I tried that the bike tries to accelerate away or surge ahead because the assist is too high for level ground. This is only a problem when I ride with my wife who is afraid to go faster than 10-12mph. On my solo ride yesterday I went with the flow in turbo on easy terrain, and I found that cruising in turbo raises my average speed from 10mph to 15mph avg, and uses about 1 bar/8 miles, including about 3 of the 17 mile ride having an 800 foot climb.

On less difficult terrain in ECO mode with my wife at at 10mph, I'd have to ride for almost 8 hours to kill the battery, and my saddle is sore by the 30 mile mark.

I previously noted that on my easiest ride I used 2/5 bars to go 30 miles in ECO mode, and if extrapolated at 15 miles/bar average that would give me a 75 mile range; while my Trek Powerfly 7 trip computer was giving me an estimate of 39 miles remaining (or 69 miles total estimated). The two estimates were pretty close. But on the ride uphill I was getting about 11 miles/bar, and about 20 miles/bar downhill on the way back.

My most difficult ride used 3 bars in 22 miles, giving me an estimate of 35 miles total on a similar hilly ride (on that ride I got anywhere from 5miles/bar off-road to 17 miles/bar on the easy flat pavement). When I arrived home from that ride at the 25 mile mark (3 miles after I dropped my 3rd bar), my trip computer on that ride said I'd only get another 7 miles in turbo before my battery was dead, which would estimate total range at 32 miles. Still pretty close.

I know that the battery provides less volts as you get to the bottom of the bucket of electrons, and each time I ride my bike it was estimating about 10% less range than my own estimates based on how far I went on the first 2-3 bars. So it may be taking that into account while I'm not.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Those are nice figures but those information are extrapolated via the bike's computer algorithm.

How about real world range from fully charged to full discharge or 1 flashing bar? How many miles does your bike goes with combined usage (both high and low PAS)?

Mark,

Based on your terminology, I assume you ride a bike with a Bafang mid-drive. The Specialized Turbo doesn't use charging bars or PAS levels like some others so your terminology is not completely applicable.

It is a torque sensing, DD hub, pedal assist that is very smooth unlike the granular cadence sensing assist that some bikes use. It reports battery levels in actual percent left that is quite accurate. It has either TURBO mode (100% assist) or ECO levels of assist. The ECO levels can be set to anywhere from 10% to 70% of full assist in 10% increments. I typically use ECO30%, ECO40%, ECO50%, or occasionally ECO70%. The real world range of the bike is very linear with respect to the ECO level. If I can go 40 miles at TURBO, then I can probably push 80 miles at ECO50%.

I have put almost 1500 miles (2400 km) on my Specialized Turbo over the last year and a half and am very comfortable with my range estimates. I can assure you that while there is some extrapolation above, the real world range I have gotten from this bike is very consistent with what I discussed. I am very comfortable planning a 50-70 mile ride now with mixed usage at ECO50% with occasional full TURBO for steeper or longer climbs. I would average 16-18 mph on that kind of ride. I have taken rides of up to 36-38 miles at full TURBO averaging near 20 mph with 15-20% reserve and gone well over 50 miles in a mixed ECO50%/TURBO settings. My body generally doesn't like to go too much over 50 miles on rides with significant climbing involved. After all, I am 66 years old and a recovered heart attack patient!

Doug