What is a cheap bike?

[tlippy]

There is a post here about online bike sales and how the gimmick of collecting all the money in advance and then waiting 2 months for delivery is the new mode of doing business. In the post somehow the posts got to "cheap bikes". I am waiting for my R1U 700 to arrive and was told that my bike is at the low end of the scale and that if I ever rode a quality bike I could tell the difference.
Here is my opinion: There are a bunch of bike snobs who think that if you don't buy a $4000 bike from a brick and mortar store that somehow your choice puts you in a different class of rider. Lower class is the insinuation.
Most frames are 6061aluminum. Aluminum is aluminum.
Shimano Acera is a reliable drivetrain. You can pay more but it's mostly to reduce weight. Most eBike owners are not weight concerned.
Bafang hubs are on a majority of eBikes and have proven reliable.
3D double wall aluminum rims seem to be on a lot of eBikes. Must work!
eBikes don't need any of the expensive,weight reducing components that serious competitive riders require.
I believe that a lot of eBikers,who have gotten too fat and too old to peddle with their bike clubs are bringing their uppity bike requirements to a whole different class of bike riders. Really! Most eBikes weigh 60+ pounds. Can you tell the difference between a Shomano Acera vs Deore?
My R1U has respectable components and I will be able to go just as fast as an eTrek. In an unlikely event, I can buy replacement parts anywhere. Why would I pay twice as much to a brick and mortar for the same components, different name?
Yes. I could have paid more and then come here and tell people that somehow my Trek is better than their R1U $1500. But that bragging right is not worth my money.
Should I post this? Sure --What The heck!

 

[FlatSix911]

Welcome to EBR and thanks for the rant... we hope you feel better now.

 

[AlanDB]

Covid has turned the ebike market (and the bike market in general) from a buyers' market to a sellers' market with limited stock, wait times, backorders etc. With the limited choices, there is no right answer that fits everyone. You have to evaluate your options and do what is best for you. I am sure there are many other members in this forum that are in a similar situation to yours.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Welcome to the board!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong, and you can easily do that.

Just ride your bike. If you can put in 3000 miles in the next few months I will reconsider my opinion. Just tell me what happens to your bike on the way.

I hold to the observation that the people who are riding their ebikes a lot and living the dream are generally doing so on higher-end ebikes. If your assertions are correct there is no reason for that.

 

[tlippy]

Welcome to EBR and thanks for the rant... we hope you feel better now.

Damn COVO! Too much time on my hands

 

[byunbee]

There is a post here about online bike sales and how the gimmick of collecting all the money in advance and then waiting 2 months for delivery is the new mode of doing business. In the post somehow the posts got to "cheap bikes". I am waiting for my R1U 700 to arrive and was told that my bike is at the low end of the scale and that if I ever rode a quality bike I could tell the difference.
Here is my opinion: There are a bunch of bike snobs who think that if you don't buy a $4000 bike from a brick and mortar store that somehow your choice puts you in a different class of rider. Lower class is the insinuation.
Most frames are 6061aluminum. Aluminum is aluminum.
Shimano Acera is a reliable drivetrain. You can pay more but it's mostly to reduce weight. Most eBike owners are not weight concerned.
Bafang hubs are on a majority of eBikes and have proven reliable.
3D double wall aluminum rims seem to be on a lot of eBikes. Must work!
eBikes don't need any of the expensive,weight reducing components that serious competitive riders require.
I believe that a lot of eBikers,who have gotten too fat and too old to peddle with their bike clubs are bringing their uppity bike requirements to a whole different class of bike riders. Really! Most eBikes weigh 60+ pounds. Can you tell the difference between a Shomano Acera vs Deore?
My R1U has respectable components and I will be able to go just as fast as an eTrek. In an unlikely event, I can buy replacement parts anywhere. Why would I pay twice as much to a brick and mortar for the same components, different name?
Yes. I could have paid more and then come here and tell people that somehow my Trek is better than their R1U $1500. But that bragging right is not worth my money.
Should I post this? Sure --What The heck!

There's no reason to rant about it without having tested the mid-drive offerings from Bosch, Yamaha, or Brose.

You're sorely mistaken if you think that these "higher end" bikes are only sold at LBS or can only be bought for $4000. There's plenty of online vendors like Crazy Lenny, Bicycle Blue Book, and Bikes Direct where you can buy these $4000 bikes at a substantial discount.

Let's not call people who buy $3000+ bike, snobs. That has nothing to do with it. It's about educating ourselves about the numerous options and realizing that there are various factors to consider when purchasing an ebike. This results in preferences around reliability, type of roads you ride, range, seating position, torque sensing vs cadence sensing, reputation, design, power, serviceability at LBS, and countless other factors.

Many of us started the ebike journey thinking $1000 for a bike is a lot. Some buy inexpensive ebikes and are happy with it. Many outgrow their initial purchase after learning and experiencing the countless offerings out there. The psychological barrier many people have to overcome is that ebikes aren't cheap and the term "higher-end" is relative. 5 year ago, I would have thought $1000 bike is high end. A year ago, $3000 was high end. Now...$3-4k is mid-range because I have a better understanding of the ebike market and appreciation for the different levels of components.

But, as I've stated above, go test ride what you consider a higher-end bike at your local LBS. It doesn't cost money and you'll walk away better informed.

 

[rich c]

I’ve ridden cheap, I ride moderately expensive now. The cheap had a motor failure at 1,600 miles. I have 4,300 and 3,400 miles on my moderately expensive eBikes. I had to guess how much longer I could ride on the cheap bike because it had horrible voltage sag. The ones I ride now gives me estimated range at every PAS level. I like what I ride now so much more. But the real truth is I don’t care what anyone rides or thinks about what I ride.

 

[Alex M]

A bit off on most points, must be too much time on your hands indeed.

Cheap is $600. You're buying $1500 entry level bike. Ride it for a season, then buy Nakto or something else off Ebay in $500-800 class or $4K bike and you'll see the difference.

Long waits are due to Covid-19, not to the sellers diabolic plan to make you pay a few months before delivery.

It's carbon vs aluminum that makes a difference in weight (for those who can afford), not derallieur. Though, cheap derallieur will likely be one of the last items to fail on ebike.

Bafang is common on under $2K bikes, and is no comparison to a hub like Stromer. Also, comparing a cheap hub to big name mid drives (on $$$ bikes) is meaningless, they are too different.

And then there is a matter of servicing better brand bikes at dealers in LBS - some people are not willing to pay for this and some are. Whatever works for you.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Welcome to the board!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong, and you can easily do that.

Just ride your bike. If you can put in 3000 miles in the next few months I will reconsider my opinion. Just tell me what happens to your bike on the way.

I hold to the observation that the people who are riding their ebikes a lot and living the dream are generally doing so on higher-end ebikes. If your assertions are correct there is no reason for that.

yep I have put 5000 miles on my bills e bike since nov24th and 1000 on our bosch powered tandem in the last two months. I ride my bulls hard and fast I cant imagine trying to get a rad unto those speeds the weight and those large tires and poor selection of gears and the lack of torque would really slow me down. shifting so so much better on a nicer drive train. brakes are a huge difference. just the difference between the cheap default hydraulics and and higher end like the e brakes from maguara are a big difference in feel. there is a big difference between the magma and the Shimano deore on my tandem. the tandem brakes are not nearly as nice. I want my bike to feel good be responsive and operate smoothy and reliably. the difference between torque sensing and cadence is a large one in how the bike feels and responds.

 

[Asher]

I ride a carbon fiber road bike (probably entry to mid level by road bike standards) and I formerly owned a Juiced. I wasn't fully satisfied with the Juiced... Until I replaced the handlebar, tires, fork and grips. Cyclists are quick to tell you the things that touch you or the ground make the most noticeable upgrades, and are fairly cheap. Tires, pedals, grips. Wheels too but those can be pricey.

After that, I was pretty happy with the juiced, though I stopped using it due to a change in living conditions.

A lot of the lower end bikes are just not thoughtfully specced, or could improve a lot with $100-200 in parts changes, but they're trying to hit a price target with an indifferent audience. Every bike brand does this to some degree. You have lots of people saying 'my budget is X and not a dollar over!' and they get the bike and either don't use it much or spend twice as much money and hassle to get what they were too cheap to pay for before. Rack, integrated lights, fenders, good tires...

Also the direct sales ebike industry still hasn't figured out that when you're not selling through a shop, selling a bare bones model and upselling after purchase just doesn't make sense. Canyon Bikes figured this out, but lots of direct sales brands are still slinging sloppy/incomplete specs. Admittedly though, there may just be lots of buyers who don't intend to do anything useful with their bike beyond 'exercising.'


I think the bigger test is over time.

@Alex M haven't the Stromers had lots of issues?

"However, if you want to talk about business, you can talk to any entrepreneur, they will tell you, "Nothing is overpriced when people are willing to pay for it."
Those companies are giving value. Whatever the value is, the customers are willing to pay for it."

Spoken like a true huckster. If I sell you $10 of corn for $100, I'm 'delivering value' too. That's just a distraction to defend overpriced goods.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Plus they don't give you different frame sizes one frame size fits all. you cant test ride the bike. if you don't like it your stuck with it.

 

[GypsyTreker]

@richc illustrates my contention that low end eBikes ( geared hub drive, 36v, 500w cookie cutter) are good entry level bikes until you put his (richc) and some others serious mileage on the bike. This is where components start making a difference. If it took 1600 miles before I blew up my $200 motor I'd feel like I got the deal of a lifetime, but that's me.

I live in Asheville and I can tell you there is not a snobbier place I have ever been if your guitar player, backpacker, bicycle rider or Trustifarian hanging out in Pack Park, lol

 

[Nova Haibike]

There are a bunch of bike snobs who think that if you don't buy a $4000 bike from a brick and mortar store that somehow your choice puts you in a different class of rider. Lower class is the insinuation.

Most real bike snobs won't even entertain buying a cheater bike.

Most frames are 6061aluminum. Aluminum is aluminum.

Yet some aluminum bikes are highly sophisticated in their construction and have impeccable welds, while others are made as cheaply as possible.

Shimano Acera is a reliable drivetrain. You can pay more but it's mostly to reduce weight.

Acera is good for what it is, but I work on bikes for a living I can tell you the difference between it and higher end components is not only weight. More money buy more precision, which leads to longer service life. It's like the "aluminum is aluminum thing." You might think indexing is indexing, but you can feel straight away the difference in quality between lower and upper tier Shimano, and when the components have significant mileage on them, it is easier to adjust the indexing on higher end shifters and derailleurs.

My R1U has respectable components and I will be able to go just as fast as an eTrek. In an unlikely event, I can buy replacement parts anywhere. Why would I pay twice as much to a brick and mortar for the same components, different name?

Some people want to be able to walk into a shop and test ride what they are considering buying. That cannot be done with most bikes sold online. The brick and motor brands also offer mid-motors from Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano, etc., which are typically not offered by online brands. Lastly, there are hundreds of Trek/Specialized/Giant dealers across the nation; you can get those brands serviced should one choose not to work on their own bike. That might not be said for a bike brand with no dealer network.

FWIW, even though I work in the industry, I bought my e-bike online at a significant discount. For only a few hundred dollars more than a R1U, I got a bike with a Yamaha motor and a Shimano XT drivetrain. Sometimes it pays to be patient and shop around.

 

[Dallant]

Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. I could’nt care less what anyone else buys.
I’m not someone who is going buy expensive kits from unknown companies to put together myself and hope for the best.
I paid more for my Trek Allant +7 because I really like it AND for a solid network of support. I bought from Trek because I really like their ebikes and Trek, by far, has got the most ebike shops in my neck of the woods for support. I’ve already gotten a battery lock fixed by one dealer, the Bosch system update done by another across the state while they fixed a flat.
Should you post this? Sure. The real question is does anyone really care?

 

[GenXrider]

It's carbon vs aluminum that makes a difference in weight (for those who can afford), not derallieur. Though, cheap derallieur will likely be one of the last items to fail on ebike.

Ironically, the Deore LX derailleur on my second-to-top-of-the-line Trek was the first thing to fail on my bike. The Trek dealer LBS said it wasn't covered under warrany because it was wear and tear. I argued with them, and they replaced it. 12+ years later, never had another problem. You just never know what's going to fail and when. But since I had to argue with them for a while that it should be covered due to premature failure before they finally gave in, it left a bad taste in my mouth. That was the only warranty service, or service ever, that I used any LBS for (which isn't that local, since it's 100 mile round trip, but it's the closest). Note, this was the LBS which was a Trek dealer and sold me the bike. I don't know if they were reimbursed anything from Trek or what Trek's take on it would have been.

 

[Taylor57]

I think we all have different riding styles and have Ebikes for different reasons. While I see the OP's point, after being around here for a month or so, I also see the "you get what you pay for" point of view. As I was on my 14 mile jaunt today with my Lectric XP, I hit a patch of pavement where I felt every crack and small bump. I thought, boy it would be nice to have a front suspension...

I'm starting to see how the addiction takes over

 

[GenXrider]

Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. I could care less what anyone else buys.

Same here, except I couldn't care less. lol

Sure. The real question is does anyone really care?

Too many people seem to care, or at least they get worked up about it. I personally don't care what anyone buys/rides or care about anyone's opinion of what I buy/ride. This is a small potatoes thing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[FlatSix911]

Damn COVO! Too much time on my hands

Tippy, no harm no foul... we are a pretty tolerant group!

 

[Dallant]

I think we all have different riding styles and have Ebikes for different reasons. While I see the OP's point, after being around here for a month or so, I also see the "you get what you pay for" point of view. As I was on my 14 mile jaunt today with my Lectric XP, I hit a patch of pavement where I felt every crack and small bump. I thought, boy it would be nice to have a front suspension...

I'm starting to see how the addiction takes over

I can’t imagine having no front suspension as I have a really bum shoulder.

 

[BlackHand]

Like cars, houses, and other major purchases there is an emotional component to an e-bike purchase.

I got a bike to commute, but I needed it to be a bike I can love AND rely on. I had the R1U 700 in my cart at one point and it would do 90% of what I need. BUT... It didn't call to me emotionally and I wanted a torque sensor and a drivetrain that would be supported by the manufacturer. All the bike 'stuff' I'm learning to do as I go.

So I doubled my budget and jumped on a bike that was still a little over my budget but heavily discounted. I've spent the last 2 months loving every minute of my commute (not waiting on a pre-order) and will pass 1000 miles this week. According to the IRS that's >$500 in value. The value to my physical and emotional health? A lot more than that.

If the R1U 700 gets you where you need to be physically and emotionally than great, I'll be happy for you .... in a couple months.