What assist levels do you usually use on e-road bikes?

[PCeBiker]

Seems like they need to redo their Auto mode logic.

I bypassed all the Artificial Logic and apply my own logic directly with my throttle.

I can always turn the PAS modes on and ride it properly whenever I want.
It does work quite nicely even though it's cadence sensing.
It's got updated programming.

But to me it just seems more logical to not bother pedaling unless I have to.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Do you always need to troll, PCebiker?

 

[EMGX]

View attachment 191545The X20 hub motor actually puts out 23Nm of torque, which is “comparable to a 55 Nm Mid Drive”.

Strange, their own web page description states 55nm with no mention of 23nm. Maybe a matter of max vs continuous or to meet regulatory requirements.

https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/product/scott-addict-eride-30-bike

maybe you'd need to test ride one to see how it works for you.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Strange, their own web page description states 55nm rather than 23nm.

https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/product/scott-addict-eride-30-bike

maybe you'd need to test ride one to see how it works for you.

If this were a mid-drive motor, the formula for torque is Peak Motor Power divided by 6.28 (60 rpm in radian per second). Take a 240 W Specialized SL 1.1 motor with 240 W peak power. The torque at the motor spindle it 240 / 6.28 = 38 Nm. Specialized marketing department has rounded it to 35 Nm. The SL 1.2 motor has its mechanical peak power of 320 W. Divide it by 6.28 and you get at the advertised 50 Nm.

The matter with hub-drives is different. The hub motor has a different rpm figure. It acts directly on the rear wheel. Mahle x20 is a 250 W peak power motor and the 23 Nm at the rear wheel sounds reasonable at 100 rpm. Mahle or Scott marketing department must have multiplied this figure by 2.4 with the following reasoning: 'If the actual torque at the rear wheel were 23 Nm and the bike gearing is 2.4, what equivalent mid-drive motor torque would be necessary?' Just the marketing crap, nothing real.

Torque without the reference rotational speed means nothing.

Juggling the torque figures makes no slightest sense. It is the motor power that matters. Only. Which is 250 W for Mahle x20, 240 W for SL 1.1 and 320 W for SL 1.2. Torque does not drive the bike. It is the power.

 

[mschwett]

Strange, their own web page description states 55nm with no mention of 23nm. Maybe a matter of max vs continuous or to meet regulatory requirements.

https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/product/scott-addict-eride-30-bike

maybe you'd need to test ride one to see how it works for you.

the actual torque from the motor is 23nm max. they scale it up for marketing purposes because most of the time a mid-drive is actually geared way up by the bike’s chainrings and cogs - imagine you’re riding a mid-drive with a 50 tooth chainring up front and you’re in a 20 tooth chainring in the back. every turn of the motor turns the wheel 2.5 times, so the torque at the wheel is 2.5 times LESS. its a bit of a lie, IMO, but there is some basis to it for typical riding since typically One cycles around on flat ground with a 2-3x gear ratio. go up a steep hill, however, and on a bike with gears and a mid drive you’re probably going to end up closer to a 1:1 gear ratio, the 23nm of the x20 is still 23nm, but the 55nm mid-drive is now.…. 55nm at the rear wheel. which is a lot more

 

[PCeBiker]

I found this,..

X20 System - MAHLE Smartbike Systems

X20 System The System Components Video The new revolution has arrived X20 System: The lightest and smartest eBike rear hub system on the market Watch the Video X20, the new milestone in the smartbike industry Ultracompact, light and smart system that creates a full range of new riding...

mahle-smartbike.com

I've been looking into e-road bikes lately, thinking maybe I'll get one or go for a conversion kit

I think that you should go for a conversation kit and install on the bike of your choice.

Pick a bike that you Loved 10-20 years ago and electrificate it into what you've always dreamed of.

You'd probably spend less and be the envy of yourself 10-20 years ago.

If you post a picture of yourself riding it no-hands, Stephan will envy you too cuz he can't do that trick.

 

[Katrina92]

It is not easy to buy a classic road e-bike nowadays, Katrina. The reason is, the industry has reassessed the market needs and found road e-bikes (especially with hub drive motors) did not sell very well. Some examples:

• Specialized had the Creo 1, a lightweight mid-drive motor road e-bike. Discontinued, replaced with Creo 2, a gravel e-bike
• Trek had a Domane+ SL with Mahle x hub drive motors. New Domane+ get a TQ mid-drive motor
• Cervelo had a Rouvida. Now Rouvida has a Fazua mid-drive motor.

My observation is the Mahle x20 system is being phased out...

Could it be because there's just not as much demand for e-road bikes compared to other types of e-bikes?

Mid-drive motors are usually heavier and more noticeable.
Personally, I feel like e-road bikes with hub motors fit better with what most road cyclists are used to.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Could it be because there's just not as much demand for e-road bikes compared to other types of e-bikes?

Mid-drive motors are usually heavier and more noticeable.
Personally, I feel like e-road bikes with hub motors fit better with what most road cyclists are used to.

I agree with you on all the points. I think @mschwett rides a Scott Addict Eride and perhaps he has missed your Original Post?

 

[Katrina92]

I agree with you on all the points. I think @mschwett rides a Scott Addict Eride and perhaps he missed your Original Post?

I'm checking out his old post—"a very brief review of a new bike (scott addict rc eride)"

 

[PCeBiker]

Could it be because there's just not as much demand for e-road bikes compared to other types of e-bikes?

I think it's because a rowdy pack of road raging spandex clad hooligans might not take kindly to cheaters?

Especially if the leader of the pack is riding an acoustic Scott Addict.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Katrina, please Ignore PCebiker. He is even not pedalling his e-motorcycle

 

[Katrina92]

Katrina, most of the responders do not ride the e-bike type you are asking for. Only a rider of a Mahle x20 road e-bike (such as Scott Addict eride) can give you a true answer.

Regarding Yamaha motors (mid-drive) also found on Giant Revolt E+, I found the Auto mode just hopeless. The Giant/Yamaha Auto mode takes measurements from several sensors and jumps between the first 3 assistance modes (out of five) to match the assistance against resistances. As the outcome, you are getting too high assistance, resulting in the battery empty too soon.

A Mahle x20 road e-bike is typically ridden with the assistance OFF, and you only turn the assist uphill or against headwind.

Hope that helps.

Stefan, what assist level do you usually ride at on your e-gravel bike?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, what assist level do you usually ride at on your e-gravel bike?

It is a flat handlebar 17 kg mid-drive e-bike with peak power of 240 W. My answer will not be representative at all as my ailments make my feet deliver less than 100 W on the average. The short answer is: it is high assistance (100 W average assistance).

Our @Jeremy McCreary often rides a similar e-bike in the OFF mode. Vado SL Gen 1 has been discontinued though.

Specialized now makes the Creo 2, a proper lightweight gravel e-bike with the peak power of 320 W. Not a road bike. Some users on these Forums have modified their Creo 2 to make it a proper road e-bike.
@Dazmanturbo is a notable rider.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I recall hearing @mschwett say good things about hub-drives in road bikes from his own experience but don't recall the details.

One thing to keep in mind: Hub motors become inefficient at low wheel speed, and mid-drives at low cadence. Reduced motor efficiency on a hill means less actual assist, lower wheel speed for a given exertion, and faster motor heating.

On a hub-drive, this dynamic can become a vicious circle on a hard-enough climb. On a mid-drive, you can go as slow as you want or need to as long as you have the balance and the gearing to keep cadence in the motor's sweet spot.

If hills you want to ride are hard enough to bog you down now, a properly geared mid-drive might be worth a test.

 

[PCeBiker]

If hills you want to ride are hard enough to bog you down now, a properly geared mid-drive might be worth a test.

^^^ What he said.
The Scott Addict eRide 30 is a $6,000 ebike.

There's plenty of mid-drive ebike options in that price range that are worth a test ride.

Maybe even something Stephan would approve of ?




The only reason that I bought a hub-drive instead of the mid-drive version of my ebike is because I have NO hills to deal with.
The mid-drive is only $300 more than my hub drive, but I don't pedal so my driveline is idle until I spin my chainring 180° to sit on my other butt cheek.

A mid drive puts ALL the motor power through the chain and sprockets and if you're not shifting right, you'll wear stuff out Furiously Fast.

(then again a 23Nm motor has the equivalent power output of a hamster wheel. Hamsters only cause ebike damage when they fling outta their wheel and get stuck in the chain. )

 

[Chargeride]

Everytime you ride an ebike with the motor off a kitten dies in Japan.

 

[Chargeride]

There's something going on, I wrote everytime and it changed to everyone without me noticing.

 

[Chargeride]

It becoming quite a banana.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Katrina, most of the responders do not ride the e-bike type you are asking for. Only a rider of a Mahle x20 road e-bike (such as Scott Addict eride) can give you a true answer.

Regarding Yamaha motors (mid-drive) also found on Giant Revolt E+, I found the Auto mode just hopeless. The Giant/Yamaha Auto mode takes measurements from several sensors and jumps between the first 3 assistance modes (out of five) to match the assistance against resistances. As the outcome, you are getting too high assistance, resulting in the battery empty too soon.

A Mahle x20 road e-bike is typically ridden with the assistance OFF, and you only turn the assist uphill or against headwind.

Hope that helps.

If I'm not mistaken, the Giant Revolt E+ is Shimano based as opposed to Yamaha.

 

[jabberwocky]

If I'm not mistaken, the Giant Revolt E+ is Shimano based as opposed to Yamaha.

Canadian Revolt Es were Shimano, at least for a few model years. US Spec Revolt E+ Pros were always Yamaha.