Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter Pro

[Feliz]

I like most bikes, I like the R&M bikes, some of the integrated bikes look good but when they start to get too futurist they're not for me, I have a nice Haibike Sduro Trekking 9 that is integrated and delightful to look at and it's a Bosch. I like most of the fat bikes, I disagree with all your comments about the Wall Wagon, I prefer an easy to get at exposed battery like the Wall Wagon and a lot of other bikes use. I like some of the retro bikes but definitely not the ones you posted..........they're awful but then again you don't like the bikes I like......to each their own.

I think a milk crate would will look good on the rear rack of my WW Commuter Pro, I'm off to the dairy.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Is there a limit on the Rohloff ?

You can push 2500W thru Rohloff on the 11th gear (the most strongest gear) and it will work fine.
Optibike has been using Rohloff for over 10 years with no issues and they push 1500W.

Gear 7 is the noisiest because that's where the second step reduction happens but I only use gears 6,8,9,10 and 11. 14 gears are kind of redundant but it is what it is.
Rohloff should make ultra-strong 8-speed system especially for ebikes. That would be nice.

esthetically pleaseing though?

Wattwagon is not marketed as a sleek, elegant bike but rather a heavy-duty workhorse and no-compromise performance design.
There are lots of sleek and very well-integrated bikes but the tech keeps evolving. This is not like cars. If you had a Lexus, you could run that thing for decades but how many of us here carry a phone that was designed in 2014? Very few....
Similarly, a good system should be forward/backward compatible.

I have a nice Haibike Sduro Trekking 9 that is integrated and delightful to look at and it's a Bosch

I have had few Bosch bikes. Really nice bikes for sure but having ridden Stromers for over 15,000 miles.. I can tell Stromer is a powerful beast. So, whenever I rode a Bosch, there was thought in my mind...
mmmm it would be nice if Bosch made slightly more powerful motors (atleast 500W motors instead of 350W).

Bafang Ultra + Rohloff +Gates is a beast of a totally different league. On level 1/2, it feels like 1 Bosch at its peak power , on level 3/4, it feels like 2 Bosch motors @ peak power combined.

In the coming week, I will be doing some 150 mile (240Km)/day weekend rides in preparation for my record attempt and it is totally crazy to think I will just carry 1 battery and 1 charger.
On Bosch I used to carry 2 batteries and 2 chargers and it would still take 10 hours of riding.

 

[Feliz]

You can push 2500W thru Rohloff on the 11th gear (the most strongest gear) and it will work fine.
Optibike has been using Rohloff for over 10 years with no issues and they push 1500W.

Gear 7 is the noisiest because that's where the second step reduction happens but I only use gears 6,8,9,10 and 11. 14 gears are kind of redundant but it is what it is.
Rohloff should make ultra-strong 8-speed system especially for ebikes. That would be nice.



Wattwagon is not marketed as a sleek, elegant bike but rather a heavy-duty workhorse and no-compromise performance design.
There are lots of sleek and very well-integrated bikes but the tech keeps evolving. This is not like cars. If you had a Lexus, you could run that thing for decades but how many of us here carry a phone that was designed in 2014? Very few....
Similarly, any system should be forward/backward compatible.



I have had few Bosch bikes. Really nice bikes for sure but having ridden Stromers for over 15,000 miles.. I can tell Stromer is a powerful beast. So, whenever I rode a Bosch, there was thought in my mind...
mmmm it would be nice if Bosch made slightly more powerful motors (atleast 500W motors instead of 350W).

Bafang Ultra + Rohloff +Gates is a beast of a totally different league. On level 1/2, it feels like 1 Bosch at its peak power , on level 3/4, it feels like 2 Bosch motors @ peak power combined.

In the coming week, I will be doing some 150 mile (240Km)/day weekend rides in preparation for my record attempt and it is totally crazy to think I will just carry 1 battery and 1 charger.
On Bosch I used to carry 2 batteries and 2 chargers and it would still take 10 hours of riding.

You can do 150 miles on one battery? Oh I see, with a charge! Doh

 

[Over50]

What other ebike would you say that's more a esthetically pleaseing though?

I'm in the camp that those retro examples are monstrosities (but recognize the subjectivity in all of this). I'll take something more like this as my example of clean, classic and stylish:



And sorry to the OPs for taking the bait and derailing this thread. I hope it gets back on track after this.

 

[Feliz]

Okay, those are beautiful classic bikes.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

You can do 150 miles on one battery?

yes, one battery but not one charge!

You charge every 70 miles and it is def doable.
Four years ago, I tried to do 200+ miles in 24 hours and I learnt some lessons the hard way: I had just 1 battery on the bike and 1 charger. It took me almost 26 hours to cover that distance even though I rode only 12+ hours. the rest of the time was spent charging the bike. You need a fast charger to cover long distances in a practical way.

 

[Feliz]

I wonder how we get the moderators to open a thread for this bike over in the brands section? I know I'm not the only owner of this bike on the forum.

 

[batmick1]

Late to the show but wanted to comment that this bike is now officially on my short list for replacement of my Haibike XDuro Trekking Rx. It is very close to how I would assemble my own ideal commuter bike, which definitely includes an IGH and belt drive. My last conventional commuter bike before I went electric was a Spot ACME and I loved the low maintenance and convenience of the Alfine11/Gate belt combination.
If I could make a suggestion for your sales I would recommend some options for specs. Personally I would prefer a drop bar option, I also do not care for suspension seat posts and Brooks saddles. If you had packages or adjustment options to reduce price that way or shift costs to items that other commuters would prefer over your idea of the ultimate commuter, it would probably help widen your customer base.
But overall I find this to be a very nice bike and I'd take it for my 6k miles/year of commuting in a heartbeat.

Two questions I could not find the answer to on your website: Can you remove the throttle? Is there a restriction on the drive and can it be removed?

 

[Feliz]

Hi Batmick1, I've ordered the bike the way it is but I mentioned early on, I guess it was in the other thread, like you this is not the perfect bike for me but it's as near as I can find in a production bike. I will no doubt make some minor changes but the cost of any changes I will make will more than be covered in the few thousand dollars I'm saving over the cost of any close competitor I can find here in Canada where I reside.

The Ultra is an awesome motor and one of the best features it has is that it can be totally adjusted/configured by the end user or the seller. This has been discussed in this thread by Pushkar the owner/designer. To adjust the settings you will need a Bafang cable which I'm sure Pushkar will be selling. Running 52 volts and with the built in 30 amp controller the motor has the potential to run 1600 watts, of course that would have to be off road. I have bikes with both the Ultra and BBSHD running 1500 and 1600 watts and when I ride one of my hub drives like I did this morning they always seem like slugs at least until I adjust to them. I love any ebike though but I always think of my muscle car days and the old saying " there's no replacement for displacement" only now it's watts and I'm 50 years older.

 

[batmick1]

Thanks Feliz ! My Haibike is the first ebike for me and I have no experience at all with non-factory drives. I only tested stock bikes with Yamaha, Bosch and Brose drives and did my research for chips to tune those.
I can hit the same speeds as on my ebike when I ride my one of my TT or road bikes so I always found the speed restriction silly. Good to know I can fine tune this drive to my liking.
My personal opinion is that if you can drive it on electric power alone (throttle) it is no longer a bicycle but a moped. My ego is still too strong so I would like to remove this option. Sounds like that is as simple as just removing the cable too.

 

[Feliz]

Thanks Feliz ! My Haibike is the first ebike for me and I have no experience at all with non-factory drives. I only tested stock bikes with Yamaha, Bosch and Brose drives and did my research for chips to tune those.
I can hit the same speeds as on my ebike when I ride my one of my TT or road bikes so I always found the speed restriction silly. Good to know I can fine tune this drive to my liking.
My personal opinion is that if you can drive it on electric power alone (throttle) it is no longer a bicycle but a moped. My ego is still too strong so I would like to remove this option. Sounds like that is as simple as just removing the cable too.

The speed can be adjusted using the Bafang colour display.

 

[Feliz]

Thanks Feliz ! My Haibike is the first ebike for me and I have no experience at all with non-factory drives. I only tested stock bikes with Yamaha, Bosch and Brose drives and did my research for chips to tune those.
I can hit the same speeds as on my ebike when I ride my one of my TT or road bikes so I always found the speed restriction silly. Good to know I can fine tune this drive to my liking.
My personal opinion is that if you can drive it on electric power alone (throttle) it is no longer a bicycle but a moped. My ego is still too strong so I would like to remove this option. Sounds like that is as simple as just removing the cable too.

I only use the throttle when taking off from a light or stop sign in traffic, I would never use it on a trail/path, nothing wrong with doing so though.

 

[Johnny]

So you guys are located in Boston. Makes sense, perfect location to understand the needs of a winter commuter also to build bikes. Wrote it in the other thread but I can say it again, keep the Ti frame it is a difference maker when built right.


One data I am really curious of is the rpm vs torque(or power) of the motor. This tells the true story of how the motor will behave for acceleration. If Bafang max drive has high power output across a wide range of cadence starting as low as possible then it may truly be the perfect commuter. I really dislike the so called big brand motor manufacturers like Bosch, Yamaha, Brose etc only mentioning maximum torque which is mostly meaningless (peak value doesn't mean much what matters is the range that peak power is supplied).

I really hope you will succeed in this.

 

[Diarmuid]

The titanium frames are approx 3x more expensive than alloy frame though.

What's the benefit of titanium frame? Is it more robost?? I don't think other ebike manufactures are having difficulties with durability with aluminum frames.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.13.345c5981qxryRH
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.37.345c5981qxryRH
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.133.345c5981qxryRH

Post #12 covers the use of Ti in the frame.

 

[Over50]

...What's the benefit of titanium frame? Is it more robost?? I don't think other ebike manufactures are having difficulties with durability with aluminum frames...

Weight and ride quality perhaps (as suggested at the end of the video). I thought I read elsewhere however that Ti frame builders can have big quality differences due to the difficulty of making the Ti frames. It is, apparently, much more of a specialty craft. But I'm certainly not very educated on the subject ...

 

[mollypoo]

Hello everyone, first post post so please be easy on me! Wow, Ti frame, Ultra drive, Gates, Rohloff.......hard to resist.

Mr Pushkar,
I've had Ti frames and if they're well designed, of high quality, and manufactured correctly they can't be beat in my opinion. Question for the owner, are these frames bought from a bulk supplier in China or did you have involvement in the design and manufacture? Pictures or a video of the bare frame and the bike being assembled would be nice and an asset to your site.

How will you handle warranty claims and what does the warranty cover?
Do you and/or your staff assemble the bikes or are they imported assembled? Do you have proper containers for shipping and what assembly work is required by the purchaser? Thank you and good luck.

 

[Mikaylablossoms]

This is probably the best ebike I’ve ever seen on the market. I’m veeery tempted to order one

 

[pushkar]

The titanium frames are approx 3x more expensive than alloy frame though.

What's the benefit of titanium frame? Is it more robost?? I don't think other ebike manufactures are having difficulties with durability with aluminum frames

Here is my post about our choice of the material - https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/watt-wagons-ultimate-commuter-pro.28718/#post-204634

Hello everyone, first post post so please be easy on me! Wow, Ti frame, Ultra drive, Gates, Rohloff.......hard to resist.

Mr Pushkar,
I've had Ti frames and if they're well designed, of high quality, and manufactured correctly they can't be beat in my opinion. Question for the owner, are these frames bought from a bulk supplier in China or did you have involvement in the design and manufacture? Pictures or a video of the bare frame and the bike being assembled would be nice and an asset to your site.

How will you handle warranty claims and what does the warranty cover?
Do you and/or your staff assemble the bikes or are they imported assembled? Do you have proper containers for shipping and what assembly work is required by the purchaser? Thank you and good luck.

@mollypoo Thanks.

1. We designed and welded the first batch of frames in Boston. We get the mounts from Asia. We are beginning to start production in Asia as we speak. All frames are rated for 300lb riders. I am adding a few pics of the frames (some in testing, some part of the logo, and one of the earlier finished frames)

2. Two (2) year warranty on the bike - our policy is on https://wattwagons.com/pages/warranty . The bike is LBS friendly, and uses standard parts. We will ship you replacements and everythign except the Rohloff / belt alignment can be replaced/ serviced in under 10-15 minutes.

3. We assemble every bike in Boston and test ride it before shipping. Here is a picture of a size L frame that we shipped a couple of days ago.

4. We ship in the XLBikebox container. https://www.shipbikes.com/xl-bikebox/ . Battery is mounted on the frame. The Charger, keys, locks, horn, cell phone holder will come in a small box within the container.

5. The end user can assemble the front wheel, rotate the handlebar, install the pedals, lock and the horn.

6. We offer $50 discount on the price of the bike if you get it shipped to your LBS - this way the LBS can assemble the wheel / remaining components, give the bike a quick look through / check any headset alignment, brakes etc before you start riding. It is absolutely essential we work with our customers to have an ideal riding experience.


Please let me know if you have any other questions. Apologies for being MIA - took a couple of days off with the family. It is super hot in Boston this weekend!

 

[pushkar]

This is probably the best ebike I’ve ever seen on the market. I’m veeery tempted to order one

Thanks! We loved designing / building it.
Also check out some quick clips of riders who have tested the bike in the past week - http://instagram.com/wattwagons/ . Please feel free to follow us !

We are building the bikes as fast as we can - build ship times are 7 days at the moment.

Thanks to @Ravi Kempaiah, we are actually testing out the Miranda cranks as a replacement for the Bafang ones. All Orders placed before Aug 15th will get a free upgrade to some awesome cranks. Note: If your bike has already shipped, we will ship you replacement cranks at no charge!

 

[Feliz]

Your enthusiasm and input on this forum is greatly appreciated, I wish all manufacturers had your presence on the forum. Sending out the cranks to previous owners is a big plus, that's customer service. I've purchased one of your bikes and I know first hand how dedicated to customer service you are, you must be you've put up with me. And no, I'm not related to Pushkar