Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter Pro

[pushkar]

Pushkar, any idea if/when Court will review your bike on EBR?

On the docket.
May be you will do one before him ?

 

[Alaskan]

This looks like a very well thought out and worthy project.

A few questions:

• I couldn't find any specs for the rear IGH is it Rohloff?
• Well the E14 be made available for other than Bosch powered bikes?
• Are Nuvinci/Envoleo or Shimano Alfine 11 options offered?
• Any thoughts of accommodating a second rack mounted battery as an option?
• What are the specs on the display and controls? Any connecitvity via bluetooth or wifi?

 

[pushkar]

This looks like a very well thought out and worthy project.

Thanks! Appreciate that so much.

A few questions:

• I couldn't find any specs for the rear IGH is it Rohloff?
• Well the E14 be made available for other than Bosch powered bikes?
• Are Nuvinci/Envoleo or Shimano Alfine 11 options offered?
• Any thoughts of accommodating a second rack mounted battery as an option?
• What are the specs on the display and controls? Any connecitvity via bluetooth or wifi?

1. Yes the IGH is Rohloff. You can find a component overview here. https://wattwagons.com/pages/specifications
2. Rohloff E-14 is not available outside Bosch . There are no definite timelines from Rohloff to offer it standalone from what we understand.
3. We are not offering Nuvinci Or the Alfine. The only IGH that reliably works with a 120-160Nm of torque of the Bafang Ultra is the Rohloff and the 3 speed Shimano Nexus. We chose Rohloff for the reliability (tested over 5000 miles in all weather riding) and the incredible gear range.
4. For rack mounted battery - is the ask for additional battery capacity ? If so, then yes, we do want to offer more battery. However we have maxed out the capacity in the commercially available frame mountable form factors. We do offer the amazing Grin Satiator as standard equipment, and our packs can charge at 7A. It is quicker to charge the entire pack. We will keep exploring better battery options but this is a longer term plan. That being said, the Ultimate Commuter Pro is an open platform - you can bring your own 52 or 48V pack and be up and running, as long as you have anderson powerpole endpoints on the pack.
5. The Display is the standard DPC 18. It is proven, and waterproof.

When you say "Wifi and Bluetooth" - can you please elaborate a bit on that - what is the ask? Are you talking about DPC181 ?

 

[Critterracing]

killer bike. if i didnt just buy a stromer id be buying a watt wagon for sure.

 

[Ken M]

You are right about the motor. Torque sending is a game changer for commuting and for varying terrain. Further , Bafang was the only one that provided a throttle. As a commuter, there were times I had a long "meeting day" and just wanted to get home.

On the fork, I tried a carbon fork but it did not perform well in snow or rainy days. It also didn't work too well on gravel or unpaved roads. They work really well on paved roads. The Auron was solid no matter what terrain I went to. I also tried a little bit of DH to be honest and worked reasonably ok.

On the handlebar, the problem we were trying to solve is real estate. I couldn't find anything in titanium that has a loop. Also because we already have a good fork and ergonomic grips, there wasn't a lot of benefit other than weight.

I appreciate you looking. Please let me know if you have more questions. Happy to share our learnings.

Bafang is going to keep chipping away at market share from Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, etc. by offering mid-drives with a throttle. I think there is a lot of egos involved in the development of Pedal Assist Systems such that they think their programs can provide the rider with the exact assist level the rider always wants. Anyone who rides an ebike for serious commuting will tell you that is a total fallacy. One thing about a throttle is that it does what a program will NEVER do...it allows the rider to get the exact amount of assist exactly when they want it.

As for real estate on the bars I tend to be a minimalist. I don't care for big LCDs on bikes .... I like the small display used by Shimano and a clean bar. I realize that potential and new buyers are impressed with having a tech laden cockpit on an ebike but after serious time in the saddle most riders will not think a large display is important. I can see the value of having a phone holder when GPS may make sense like for delivery service riders.

Schwalbe has some information on their website about the effectiveness of tire air volume vs. active suspensions. If I'm not mistaken tires like the superb 27.5 x 2.4 Moto Xs you selected for your bike drop the improvement in ride quality added by a suspension for to below 10%. Again I tend to think suspension forks for urban mobilty are more about marketing than actually making a big difference in ride quality. I have an Magura Air Fork on one of my ebikes with the Moto Xs and I can hardly tell the difference when I lock it out or leave it active. I put a rigid carbon fork that would allow me to stagger the front tire to a 29 and I loved the way the bike handle with that fork.

 

[TForan]

Could you raise the power for "off road only" ? 30 amp controller ?

 

[Feliz]

I think the BBSHD and Ultra have a built in 30 amp controller, at least mine do, and settings can be changed using the Bafang cable and a computer. I run all my Bafang mid drives at 1500 or1600 watts delending on the voltage I'm running. If you're using the bike off-road I'm sure Pushkar would deliver the bike with the output you want.

 

[pushkar]

I think the BBSHD and Ultra have a built in 30 amp controller, at least mine do, and settings can be changed using the Bafang cable and a computer. I run all my Bafang mid drives at 1500 or1600 watts depending on the voltage I'm running. If you're using the bike off-road I'm sure Pushkar would deliver the bike with the output you want.

@Feliz that is correct. The default version is 750 watts from the factory.
@TForan If your use case is outdoors, please let us know when you place the order.

 

[pushkar]

Bafang is going to keep chipping away at market share from Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, etc. by offering mid-drives with a throttle. I think there is a lot of egos involved in the development of Pedal Assist Systems such that they think their programs can provide the rider with the exact assist level the rider always wants. Anyone who rides an ebike for serious commuting will tell you that is a total fallacy. One thing about a throttle is that it does what a program will NEVER do...it allows the rider to get the exact amount of assist exactly when they want it..

Agreed! Throttle is a big part of ebiking - the optiton should be available. I hope that the rest will also start offering that option as the market distribution changes.

Schwalbe has some information on their website about the effectiveness of tire air volume vs. active suspensions. If I'm not mistaken tires like the superb 27.5 x 2.4 Moto Xs you selected for your bike drop the improvement in ride quality added by a suspension for to below 10%. Again I tend to think suspension forks for urban mobilty are more about marketing than actually making a big difference in ride quality. I have an Magura Air Fork on one of my ebikes with the Moto Xs and I can hardly tell the difference when I lock it out or leave it active. I put a rigid carbon fork that would allow me to stagger the front tire to a 29 and I loved the way the bike handle with that fork.

For the Schwalbe, I will do more research. On the fork, you are right for the most part. For the Ultimate Commuter Pro, I planned for all-weather and all urban terrain. I test rode a Giant and a Stromer during the snow last year, and then right after a heavy shower. The difference was noticeable for me without a good air / suspension fork. I may be biased about the fork.

 

[Ken M]

Agreed! Throttle is a big part of ebiking - the optiton should be available. I hope that the rest will also start offering that option as the market distribution changes.



For the Schwalbe, I will do more research. On the fork, you are right for the most part. For the Ultimate Commuter Pro, I planned for all-weather and all urban terrain. I test rode a Giant and a Stromer during the snow last year, and then right after a heavy shower. The difference was noticeable for me without a good air / suspension fork. I may be biased about the fork.

I think having a fork standard is a less risky offering because marketing money has convinced even most road / urban riders that they "need" a front suspension.

Here's my take in more detail. My guess anyone riding a bike with the Schwalbe Moto Xs (ie an ebike like yours) is going to be spending 90% or more of their miles on paved or concrete surfaces so an active suspension really only adds cost and maintenance. I do agree that a front fork makes great sense if say over 30% of riding time is on varied surfaces like fire / dirt roads or single track trails.

 

[Feliz]

I wouldn't buy a bike without an air fork and all my bikes have a Kinect suspension seatpost, two good choices. 2.4" tires will never replace a good air fork, 4" fat tires won't even do it. I had my fill of bone jarring rides mountain biking in the eighties I don't need it now.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

$6300 ???

Yes, here is a nice picture and comparison with one of the better E-bikes on the market.
R&M is a large company with several dealers in EU and they do make nice bikes. Watt Wagon is also started by two engineers but is a small startup as of now.

(Link Removed - Attachment No Longer Exists)

 

[keithd]

Looks sweet, very nice job.

 

[GregGritton]

What about a chain guard? It seems the only thing missing from this bike.

 

[TForan]

$6300 ???

With those components, what would you expect the price to be ?

 

[Feliz]

With those components, what would you expect the price to be ?

Where I live about $10,000.

I wonder what the weight of the R&M bike is I can't seem to find it?

 

[vincent]

Curious on the weight on the R&M also

 

[Ken M]

What about a chain guard? It seems the only thing missing from this bike.

Has a belt so a guard would be kind of a kluge.

 

[GregGritton]

Has a belt so a guard would be kind of a kluge.

Wouldn't a guard still be needed to keep your pants from being sucked up between the belt and the chainring?

 

[Ken M]

Wouldn't a guard still be needed to keep your pants from being sucked up between the belt and the chainring?

I've always felt a guard was more about keeping pants clean because the bottom of the front sprocket is where pants would be pulled in and the guard is on top (chain is exiting the sprocket at the top).