Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter 2 rides 175 miles now 1075 miles, more than 2 rides

[JakEmAll]

He’s a beast

 

[opimax]

I wish I recordEd my rides like to see how many miles a year, I think I did 8k on a Stromer 1 year while still working. if I avg 75 ride and ride every other day….15x75x12=13,500…which is a reach. I don’t go every other day all the time but 75 seams like a reasonable avg, maybe even short so I guess this could be a goal. I am not sure what we will do when travel is really open again and my wife doesn’t seem like she will be riding as much as anticipated before retirement with nagging health/minor injuries just keep coming. But probably less mileage then.

“there is always someone who is bigger badder, stronger and rides more then you”

 

[opimax]

Made it , 2nd picture is new rebuilt wheel for real bike geeks

 

[opimax]

Rode wife’s bike last time , Trek has started skipping again 3rd ride after total wheel rebuild

Good news my bike fixed today , ride some tomorrow , prob med length have a repair person coming in the morning

 

[Fast n' Furious]

My tires were at 50lbs since the sidewall said 55. Pushkar stated too high with the Tanus Armor inserts.I think I feel a very slight sluggishness but very so slight.

West’s post on the throttle and gear use above is 100% correct, my issue is we compromise by not using the throttle for take off , I would like this improve.

Couple things.
It's an 'Allegory of the cave'. Just always remember, lead follow or get out of the way and what works is the answer.
A thumb throttle is a shadow of a 'real throttle'.
Invariably, it's a lack of experience with twist throttles causes a dislike of e-bike throttles.
With a thumb throttle, if you press a bit you are already 25 - 50% through it's range. So you let up a little bit, and now you're instantly 50% of the range you were in. They can't be modulated properly (A graph of your ride looks like WattWagon's emblem).
Even with my 85 - 90Nm machine, it's always accelerating or decelerating. Cruising and or applying a known, specific amount of power is impossible. Overreaction is unavoidable.
With +160Nm on tap it must be really ugly.
But it's not the throttle. It's your thumb - so blame yourself, of fix it.
I switched to a quarter twist, grip throttle. I can cruise all day, maintain any speed I want. What a night and day difference.
'Light and slow', or a 'fast and flying kick in the butt' up big hills 'taking control', it's become second nature to hit the boost when I want to.
I'm conditioned to use the rear brake first, so the spring-loaded throttle returns to 'throttle full off'.
More than a leisure sport, I 'commute'. When I'm at a red light and there's a serious hill on the other side of that intersection (a situation I face daily), if I don't lead like Sharpe's Brigade I risk passing traffic pinning me into parked cars, slowing me to their pace as set by the slowest *&^%$# car on that hill.
And if the next %^$#@& light at the top of that hill turns red, I'm stuck, stopped mid-hill because some @$$ is too close to the parked vehicles for me safely pass his Ford Behemoth on the right side (no, it's not deliberate. sure seems that way, but it's just people are just dangerously stupid - as a rule - and we live in an existential world).
Without Throttle: Bottom of that hill; light turns green, irritated bumper- to-bumper, cars pass annoying bicycle and instantly crowd over to 11" away from the parked cars and everything stops (while someone in a SUV doing a 'good deed for the day' pauses to invite a panhandler into the middle of the intersection - causing a 3 block back up).
I'm stuck, dependent on pedaling? Lol.
FAIL !!! Maybe ah' should just a' gonna mosey on down the tracks an wheel ma' bicycle home on the sidewalks?
LOSER status - very Unamerican.
With throttle, they have to catch me first. I'm at the head of the line and moving faster than the guy in the other lane texting his therapist.
Cars take me seriously when they realize I'm not a Huffy 10-speed pedal-nut, traffic blocker (I swear, 'bicycles' give e-bikes such a bad name. lol)
And it's a must have to avoid pedal strikes when turning. Also works great for lifting the front end up a tad going over drops.
I can't relate to buying any e-bike and de-tuning it's capabilities to suit an obsolete pedal-power-only style, so why do even the best come with an unusable $5 thumb throttle that literally ruins the potential? Go figure. I had to go to lengths to install mine and I have another ready for my next machine.
Second point. You said you tire was rubbing. That was the red flag your IGH was not centered (or wheelset was screwy).
Next result is your belt would come off. It has to be centered. It couldn't have been.
I've said and repeat: a laser guide is a required investment to align Gates belts.
The biggest flaw of the Gates is that it must be precisely centered. Read the literature.
At risk of being a heretic, I see Gates on really cheap bikes now. Like getting a Mac. Total proprietary lock on the product and charge big buck$$ for the parts.
Sony got in big trouble selling their product below costs - to hook the customers.
Company's with junky cars do it to make the $$$ off the constantly failing parts.
Last issue: I also note the K XVI's warranty is void after 30 days when ordering 'unlocked throttle'.
That does not inspire my confidence.
How's yours holding up?
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Sincerely hope you are feeling better.
Soon I'll be 70 and healing is slower, but a kid like you should be doing wheelies by now.
I'm not alone when I say I really enjoy your tasteful perspectives so please get back in that saddle.

Ever and always,

(The original and irreverent) Fast and Furious

 

[opimax]

1st I disagree about your throttle comments! . On my bike with a restricted throttle the bike has a quicker take off with more actual power available in eco level 3 or higher. The throttle “only” allows 1000 watts of power , bike has 2300 or more at peak which are all available in PAS. I disagree about the engagement of the throttle. If the 1st section of the thumb engagement is non responsive it is poor engineering or an incorrect choice for this use. When accelerating from a standstill the med and lower gears have a gap where the engine spools up a little then engages the rest of the drivetrain with a large surge and too much power, almost wheelied all the over on one takeoff. This has got to be worse without a derestricted throttle You aren’t supposed to use the top gears for take off which are much smoother though. Made even more difficult not having a gear indicator

Holding speed is fair but the point of of engagement is too granular, either too much or too little causing too much moderation by the rider to keep steady but doable but not worthy of a bike called “Ultimate” while also paying ultimate prices. The worst part is take off

Thanks for the good thoughts, I am riding, bike has been dropping the belt too much , need to figure this out, not quite as happy as I have been, not been posting much till resolved, I would not buy with out a warranty, may look into replacing with new 7 speed version

 

[scrambler]

@opimax, have you checked the alignment of front and rear sprockets?
One way is to place an aluminum ruler flat against the front sprocket, extending to the rear and see if you land on the rear sprocket or outside of it.
If you have a Kindernay, the Belt line at the Hub is supposed to be 45.5mm (You should confirm that by measuring on the bike), if so this is a short belt line that most likely requires the front Sprocket to be as close to the motor / frame as possible. If the front sprocket is too far out the rear one, you can try to mount it differently (there are 4 ways, in and out the spider, and with offset to inside or outside), and eventually use spacers (washers) with the closest best position.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Opimax, when the motor gives you a large surge and too much power what level PAS are you in?
Is this with throttle only?
I'm very interested, as Pushkar is building me a UC Pro this week.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Reading about your belt problems, I'm glad I went with a standard Shimano 11 speed groupset.

 

[opimax]

Pas isn’t affected (effected?) this is on throttle, not the motor surge but a gap in the drive train or feels this way to me then it grabs, seems to be in in the lower gears or more noticeable in lower gears “where you can pull a stump”

 

[opimax]

Got the motor replaced on my wife’s bike today. Only got to test ride a 1/2 block but the complaint of being louder then my motor is now fixed. On my test ride seemed even faster then before! Going to DC area tomorrow with my brother and his UC for the weekend. I am taking her bike since it working better than mine currently (Kindernay leak and rear brake) and she is not going to be riding it for a while . We will be on the W&OD trail this weekend for thorough test. I will be replacing the Kindernay next week, when I return and can schedule time with Jonah the tech to go over the belt not staying on issue possibly related my leak? Also look at the brake while the wheel is off.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

…I've said and repeat: a laser guide is a required investment to align Gates belts.
The biggest flaw of the Gates is that it must be precisely centered. Read the literature....

Thanks for this advice. I've been trying to resolve a belt skipping problem on my Wattwagons CrossTour even after taking it to two bike shops for alignment, one of which specializes in ebikes. Its already at maximum recommended tension. I tore through one belt already.

I see the gates manual refers to the "GATES UT LASER ALIGNMENT TOOL" but I don't couldn't find that specific tool for sale. I don't see it on the U.S. Gates website. When googling, I just get laser alignment tools for car motor belts. Although there is a good video from Gates Germany on using the UT tool. Do you have a link to the this or another laser that would work?

 

[opimax]

Rome, please translate

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

From the Gates catalog. This is what I'm looking for.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

View attachment 104846From the Gates catalog. This is what I'm looking for.

I am Sorry Opimax I read the contents of your conversation this morning, I thought you were talking about the tazer guns. I

But now I realise you guys are talking about fixing your problematic bike.

Another "duh" moment arrives - fleeting glimmers of awareness blossom.
Again what I've said, you need this tool - or better yet, the real one (and to take the course on the site I posted) to keep that Gates in alignment - unless you're cool enough to trust a shop.
Gates has workshop vids posted on European Bike sites - FREE.
What study I did indicated alignment off 2mm was sufficient to fail. My eyes ain't what they were back when rocks were soft, so not sure I could eyeball that, I agree: a laser (to prevent the Empire from Striking Back? uh, no) guide is a must. Hey, I have one on my level and my Skillsaw, why not?
Another reason I went 11sp Cassette n' Chain on my Ti Crosstour order (wireless, electric shifting).
Tick, tock. Tick, tock. I can't wait.

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

Fast n' Furious, you ordered a titanium Crosstour with wireless electric shifting? Was that an Archer unit?

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Archer seems to be the one - that's still TBD. I'm not sweating the masters.
Di2 sounds good, but again I'm relying on WW's recommendations to research, compare then decide.
-
I may have ordered the last Cross Tour - or be told I'm too late and have to go w/ a UC (more my buzzard luck).
The world famous, record crushing Cross Tour is gone from the website ... so I'm hoping they still had a wide frame laying around - on on the 'slow boat'.
Part of my plan is sand duty.
Ability to switch wheelsets to/ from 4" - w/ drive with cassette intact - when I go to Pismo Beach, fishing 10 miles of surf, - then back to 3" (sorta-wide) Commuter Street tires.
I'm building strong but have no problem with breakage. Yes, my throttle is 'over-the-top' - but a Titanium bike is no less so a fetish.
-
Really, thanks to all the community that educated me. I'm humbled - yet nonetheless arrogant at the same time and doing it my way.
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My CrossTour Build Specs
Medium
11 Speed Cassette
Electronic shifting (wireless if possible)
27.5 x 3.
X1 2300w/ harness/ derestricted Twist Throttle throttle (grip type)
Magura MT7e
MDRP 203mm
Brooks B 17
Everything else is stock.
-
Time-frame was 90 days, I expect 120ish.
-
Weight-wise, I signed on to the stock 'Manitou Mezzer Pro', but the SR Suntour Auron also seems to be 2000 grams.
For me, anything that weights more is not an improvement - regardless of travel, or fabulous rebound specs.
-
I'd appreciate all the input I can get on 'electronic shifter's'.
This is a process in flux. Whew!

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

I'm also going with a Shimano 11 speed groupset. I wanted a SRAM AXS wireless setup, but Pushkar couldn't get one for a couple of months and I didn't want to wait. I was offered an Archer wireless unit, but I declined. I have an Archer unit on my Cannondale Lefty 3 and even though it's a decent product I wouldn't order another one. Instead, I'm going to use the Shimano groupset for a while and probably upgrade to the SRAM AXS unit later on.
The SRAM wireless groupset is considerably more money, but I think it's worth it.

I got an email from a customs broker that my UC Pro was on its way from WW and would soon be on its way to me.......after I paid the fees and taxes.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I'm also going with a Shimano 11 speed groupset. I wanted a SRAM AXS wireless setup, but Pushkar couldn't get one for a couple of months and I didn't want to wait. I was offered an Archer wireless unit, but I declined. I have an Archer unit on my Cannondale Lefty 3 and even though it's a decent product I wouldn't order another one. Instead, I'm going to use the Shimano groupset for a while and probably upgrade to the SRAM AXS unit later on.
The SRAM wireless groupset is considerably more money, but I think it's worth it.

I got an email from a customs broker that my UC Pro was on its way from WW and would soon be on its way to me.......after I paid the fees and taxes.

Good to know about the Archer on the real-time. What's your impression? It's just not "all that"?
They sent you a raw frame from China? LOL.
Hey I got a deal like that on some panniers and ended up with two sets of $160 set-ups for $60.00, but that email sounds bizarre. How did they know your address? I know WW's website, on the availability page shows:

Frames UCPro and Crosstour, Custom Titanium. COVID related delays at manufacturer. They have been out for 25 days now. All current order shipping from Asia ETAs are slipping to Late October / early November at the earliest. Depends on when factory is allowed to open.

It (sorta) sounds as though (maybe/ fingers crossed) somebody shipped something ?
This is also (sorta) good news (but why hackers would have you email is rather disturbing).
It bodes well for delivery anticipations, but not so much for privacy concerns.
-
No word on the Archon X1 Significant chip shortage. We have enough to fulfill current orders. Will affect orders placed from Sep 1 onwards situation. That's from Asia to Germany, then to the USA. I find it takes weeks just to get stuff from Germany to the USA, without the current madness. I ordered after Sept 1. Sigh.
-
I wrote that yesterday, Here's an update. Talked to Amit at WW today and 'we have a problem Houston'.
Archon chips estimated delivery is two years out.
Anyone have a spare 2300watt controller for sale? I'm serious.
Amit was 'can do' and candid about the situation. Trying times ahead in the supply chain.

Fn'F

 

[BruceBrown]

Good to know about the Archer on the real-time. What's your impression? It's just not "all that"?
They sent you a raw frame from China? LOL.
Hey I got a deal like that on some panniers and ended up with two sets of $160 set-ups for $60.00, but that email sounds bizarre. How did they know your address? I know WW's website, on the availability page shows:

Frames UCPro and Crosstour, Custom Titanium. COVID related delays at manufacturer. They have been out for 25 days now. All current order shipping from Asia ETAs are slipping to Late October / early November at the earliest. Depends on when factory is allowed to open.

It (sorta) sounds as though (maybe/ fingers crossed) somebody shipped something ?
This is also (sorta) good news (but why hackers would have you email is rather disturbing).
It bodes well for delivery anticipations, but not so much for privacy concerns.
-
No word on the Archon X1 Significant chip shortage. We have enough to fulfill current orders. Will affect orders placed from Sep 1 onwards situation. That's from Asia to Germany, then to the USA. I find it takes weeks just to get stuff from Germany to the USA, without the current madness. I ordered after Sept 1. Sigh.
-
I wrote that yesterday, Here's an update. Talked to Amit at WW today and 'we have a problem Houston'.
Archon chips estimated delivery is two years out.
Anyone have a spare 2300watt controller for sale? I'm serious.
Amit was 'can do' and candid about the situation. Trying times ahead in the supply chain.

Fn'F

I’ve got the Archer and it’s been great. Easy to install, setup, and tweak. Shifting is smooth and accurate. I recently updated to their new batteries which shift 50% faster.