Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter 2 rides 175 miles now 1075 miles, more than 2 rides

[Fast n' Furious]

1st I disagree about your throttle comments! . On my bike with a restricted throttle the bike has a quicker take off with more actual power available in eco level 3 or higher. The throttle “only” allows 1000 watts of power , bike has 2300 or more at peak which are all available in PAS. I disagree about the engagement of the throttle. If the 1st section of the thumb engagement is non responsive it is poor engineering or an incorrect choice for this use. When accelerating from a standstill the med and lower gears have a gap where the engine spools up a little then engages the rest of the drivetrain with a large surge and too much power, almost wheelied all the over on one takeoff. This has got to be worse without a derestricted throttle You aren’t supposed to use the top gears for take off which are much smoother though. Made even more difficult not having a gear indicator

Holding speed is fair but the point of of engagement is too granular, either too much or too little causing too much moderation by the rider to keep steady but doable but not worthy of a bike called “Ultimate” while also paying ultimate prices. The worst part is take off

Thanks for the good thoughts, I am riding, bike has been dropping the belt too much , need to figure this out, not quite as happy as I have been, not been posting much till resolved, I would not buy with out a warranty, may look into replacing with new 7 speed version

No yours isn't defective. Thumb throttles are dangerous. I wouldn't use one. Only twist-grip types work for me. WW's "Restricted Throttle" option is "750Watts".
Did you take that course Gates offers?
I can't see the shorter gear ratio range VII would be any improvement - 'cept the additional +$500 shifter.
You're a better man than I Gunga Din. I went cassette w/ electric shifting - and may even switch that to cable.
Unlike my cassette, your IGH can shift without turning the pedals, so that 'surge' is even more my beef with TS systems.
Lag and blast-off. I use my throttle to ease off - so I can abort.
Another situation is as an adjunct to the TS when I'm climbing and don't want to downshift - I kick in the throttle afterburners.
You're correct. An additional 750watts to the CT's 1500watt limit for the TS would be fine.
2250watts on tap, but burning 1500 max if I'm pedaling, off the throttle.
It'll be interesting to find out how tunable the software is. I would expect it would have come preset to a reasonable degree.
Thank you for the input and best regards,

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

I’ve got the Archer and it’s been great. Easy to install, setup, and tweak. Shifting is smooth and accurate. I recently updated to their new batteries which shift 50% faster.

I wish my setup was as easy as yours. The app does not play well with an iPhone. It was a real PTA getting everything set up properly. It took over 12 tries just to get the app on my iPhone to recognize the Archer unit.
I like the unit, I just don't love it.
Bruce, once you press one of your remote shifter buttons how long does it take for the main unit to connect and start shifting gears?
With my unit, once I press one of the shifter buttons it take around 10 seconds for the unit to finally connect with the remote shifter. I feel that's WAY too long.

 

[BruceBrown]

I’ve not really noticed much of a delay connecting the remote to the shifter. I turn the shifter on then hold a remote button down for about a second and it connects.

My experience with my iPhone was good. I watched their video first which definitely helped.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I'm android.

I’ve not really noticed much of a delay connecting the remote to the shifter. I turn the shifter on then hold a remote button down for about a second and it connects.

My experience with my iPhone was good. I watched their video first which definitely helped.

This is the D 1x trail?
I'm confused. Info says the regular model is slower, less battery life.
At this point, I'm pretty sold on the Archer, so my interest is the shift controller variations.
The wait being what it is for my Cross Tour, I'm thinking about on my Ltd as an upgrade.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Some advice for anyone ordering an Archer wireless unit: be very careful when pressing down on the on/off button. It is really small and it is very easy to push down too hard and break it.
Ask me how I know.
The light is very close to the button and can't be seen when pressing down with your finger. I recommend pressing down with your fingernail. This may sound weird, but it works.
I also don't turn my unit off with the button after riding the bike. I just let the unit turn itself off on its own. I still worry about breaking that damn button again.

 

[BruceBrown]

I'm android.

This is the D 1x trail?
I'm confused. Info says the regular model is slower, less battery life.
At this point, I'm pretty sold on the Archer, so my interest is the shift controller variations.
The wait being what it is for my Cross Tour, I'm thinking about on my Ltd as an upgrade.

They have two battery options for the same unit. The new battery shifts faster than the base battery, but there is a tradeoff with lower battery life in that you'll have to recharge after about 24 hours of use. With the batteries that came shipped with mine there were two batteries about the size of an AA. The upgraded battery requires three batteries, but they're shorter than the stock so they take up the same amount of room.

@Deacon Blues - When you say you broke the button did you mean that broke it to where it won't turn on or off, or that the plastic covering the button broke?

 

[Deacon Blues]

The button mechanism itself broke, so it wouldn't turn on or off. It's very fragile and Archer mentioned, in an email to me, that they had a new, more stouter button in the works.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Some advice for anyone ordering an Archer wireless unit: be very careful when pressing down on the on/off button. It is really small and it is very easy to push down too hard and break it.
Ask me how I know.
The light is very close to the button and can't be seen when pressing down with your finger. I recommend pressing down with your fingernail. This may sound weird, but it works.
I also don't turn my unit off with the button after riding the bike. I just let the unit turn itself off on its own. I still worry about breaking that damn button again

Hey, thanks for honesty and clear reason why. Does it use the battery just left on?
I'm still considering SRAM. Really like the flipper; hate the proprietary money pit trap.
-
Need Data from real users without any agenda, but their experience.
Thanks

 

[Deacon Blues]

FnF, I think if the unit is left on it goes into sleep mode and then turns off after a time period.
It may use a bit of extra juice, but there's no way I'm going to press down on that on/off button any more than I absolutely have to. That on/off button is a piece of crap.

 

[opimax]

Having some issues , have a loaner , not sold on the Kindernay and the current power being compatible yet

 

[Deacon Blues]

Having some issues , have a loaner , not sold on the Kindernay and the current power being compatible yet

Are you having issues with your Kindernay hub?
What did you get for a loaner?

 

[Merle Nelson]

Loaner from WW right?

Huh. I just put 20 miles on my Hydra with Kindernay and love the feel of it.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Loaner from WW right?

Huh. I just put 20 miles on my Hydra with Kindernay and love the feel of it.

Around three weeks ago I had a long Face time meeting with Pushkar. One of the things we talked about was the possibility of switching my bike to a Kindernay hub. He told me he was still getting calls from WW owners who were experiencing leaking problems with their Kindernay hubs.

Hopefully, your hub is a recent build and Kindernay has solved its leaking problem.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Around three weeks ago I had a long Face time meeting with Pushkar. One of the things we talked about was the possibility of switching my bike to a Kindernay hub. He told me he was still getting calls from WW owners who were experiencing leaking problems with their Kindernay hubs.

Hopefully, your hub is a recent build and Kindernay has solved its leaking problem.

Sounds iffy.

If, however, lots of people are reporting doing well with it, in my opinion it is an incredible way to go.

Kindernay themselves responded within 24 hrs when I asked about K7 availability a few months ago. Maybe they could tell you if there is a way to get past leakage risk. Maybe K7 units haven't had that issue at all.

 

[Deacon Blues]

In our discussion Pushkar said he hasn't been able to get his hands on a K7 yet.

 

[Merle Nelson]

They may be selling out quickly.

 

[opimax]

I have a long term loaner from WW with a chain. It skips a little also.so does my Trek Allant. I am not getting lucky with mid drives in general the Allant broke the chain 4 miles after getting it back from repairing the skipping 2 days ago so I don’t know if it was really fixed. My bad feelings for the very unreliable Stromer and the rear hub direct drive are starting to wane…no not really . I have deposit on Specializd with belt hopefully in Feb? And will test drive a Serial 1 since I found a local dealer

Still want my WattWagon to be my prime bike but it needs to be a little more reliable.

 

[Merle Nelson]

And having back up bikes seems like a must to me.

 

[opimax]

I just got back from Trek , new chain 21.00 while I waited, hope it works correctly. Spare number 2 selling bh for peanuts if I;take some pictures, looking at the Harley to see if it should attempt to be a spare, wife would like th e auto shifting I bet, waiting for a specialized Vado with belt to test and always have an eye for a quality rear hub unit

they had a few racks in stock but none that didn’t clamp on the front fender so keep looking for in stock that can hold a heavy bike but not clamping on the fender, don’t mind frame contact at all

anybody buying a Trek should buy from a corp store imho, they take care of you, an almost hour drive but the shop I bought from is over a 1/2 hour anyway

 

[Fast n' Furious]

In our discussion Pushkar said he hasn't been able to get his hands on a K7 yet.

K VII is on backorder at their site. Norway is just pulling out of the Omicron wave and should be shipping soon.
(Anyone looking to skip the repeats of opinions, wanting to track the COVID situation in any country should look here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/)
........
Kindernay's site says 148mm (boost spacing) is KIV's largest size.
https://kindernay.com/products/complete-gear-hub/product-landing-kindernay-vii/
The XIV comes in 197mm.
https://kindernay.com/products/complete-gear-hub/product-landing-kindernay-xiv/
I'm surprised Pushkar didn't mention that?
-
Two more hydraulic lines - if you're trying to ditch clutter
-
A cassette and 8100 derailleur is under 700gms.
The D1x remote with battery weighs 70g. Shifter/ batteries/ attachment straps/ cable and housing weighs 193g. Total: 263g .
Total Cassette/ derailleur + D1x weight: 963gms
Manufacturers often seems to low est weight. Maybe a kilo for a steel cassette, stronger chain
(According to Kindernay) Total XIIV weight: 2180gms (Now they only cite the 1400gram raw hub weight).
2.7lbs difference.
To be fair, I'm sure the chain-drive's axle must add some weight, but those figures from Kindernay were for the raw hub and shifter/ lines, not sure about cage, etc. I don't think buyers care.